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Sound on Analogue DC with Bachmann D27 (32-679DS)

Silver Sidelines

Entry posted by Silver Sidelines

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It was not so very long ago that I discovered that I could get digital sound on analogue DC. A chance purchase at a bargain price had given me the opportunity to run a Bachmann Digital Sound Class 40 on my analogue DC layout. You don’t get all the ‘bells and whistles’ but you do get great sound. Full Digital Control seems to me to be a step far too far, for what I ask myself? Well I was perhaps a tiny bit envious of ‘sound’ on Digital Control. However my recent excursions successfully running Bachmann Digital Sound locomotives on analogue DC confirm my long held view that I can keep my simple analogue DC system and that I do not need Digital Control for my kind of sound.

 

First a little bit of history!

 

4031090821_5ce56eee26_o.jpg
D12 at Carlisle August Bank Holiday 1961or 62

 

I have childhood memories of train spotting at Carlisle Citadel and being mightily impressed by D12 in near ex-works condition. It would be 1982 before Palitoy / Mainline made available their Class 46 model of D52.

 

27353646744_5214b2055b_o.jpg
Mainline D100 Sherwood Forester

 

My favourite ‘must have’ model at the time was Palitoy’s second green Class 45, D100 Sherwood Forester, which came with illuminated indicator boxes and lots of power. I bought this model new in 1983 for £16 from Northumbria Models and I parted with it in 2008 for £33 – obviously very good play value.

 

27351957743_8c884e089b_b.jpg
Bachmann D27

 

Back to the future and after acquiring a digital sound Class 40 I purchased a second ‘green’ digital sound locomotive, this time Bachmann D27 (32-679DS). I don’t know when this model was released but there is an interesting thread here on RMweb suggesting a ‘cock up’ by Bachmann who shipped the locomotives with LokSound V4.0 chips programmed with the code for the earlier V3.5 chip. This might go some way to explaining why I was still able to purchase a brand new model at a very competitive price. In contrast to the Class 40 the Bachmann instruction leaflet for D27 says specifically that sound is not available whilst running on analogue DC. Certainly straight out of the box when placed on the track with the sound chip installed the locomotive just emitted a loud humming noise.

 

27888308021_2c100fc0cb_b.jpg
Bachmann D27 plus SPROG on Programming Track

 

A little knowledge is dangerous. The manual for the ESU LokSound V4.0 chip details its use on analogue DC. With no Digital Controller available I would buy a SPROG and investigate D27’s CV values (Thank you Kevin at Coastal DCC.). I would use the SPROG with a programming track and maybe change the D27 values to the ones used for the Class 40.

 

The first thing I discovered using the SPROG was that the CV values from the chip fitted to D27 bore no resemblance to the those stated on the Bachmann instruction leaflet or the values for the Class 40. I carried out some research and discovered the RMweb thread already referred to above with the thought that the chip should be reprogrammed. The most expedient solution for me was to contact Caroline and Steve at South West Digital (SWD) and to post the chip off for their attention. There was a nominal charge to pay and I received my chip checked and programmed for use with analogue DC. On return from SWD an inspection using my SPROG showed that Steve had reset almost all the CVs to values identical to the ones for the Class 40. Back on track - I had sound on analogue DC.

 

http://youtu.be/a_rn3tVJKUo

 

I am well satisfied.

 

The SWD / ESU data sheet for the LokSound v 4.0 decoder contains suggestions for using the chip on analogue DC. I have interpreted the notes as follows:

 

From zero turn the controller dial UP slowly until the engine sound starts. Note this position (No.1). Let the engine idle and when it has settled down to a steady rhythm turn the dial DOWN until the engine sound shuts down. Note this position (No.2).

 

To illustrate the points I made the short video clip linked below:

 

https://youtu.be/RCgqndi82kQ

 

To play trains:

 

Turn the controller to No1 and wait whilst the engine sound settles. To move off, turn the controller UP and drive the train as normal. The engine running noise changes according to the position of the controller / speed of the engine. Be patient, the sound will take one or two seconds to reach the throttle position. Avoid making sudden changes. Drive to the sound.

 

To stop the train, slow it gradually turning the control DOWN to position 1. When you are completely finished with the locomotive, turn the dial DOWN further to position 2. After completion of engine shutdown turn the control dial to zero.

 

As received back from SWD I thought the sound from D27 to be quieter than from my Class 40, D211. Checking with the SPROG showed that CV ‘63’ the master control for volume was set for both locomotives at the default value of 128.

 

27888311181_1e49772a44_b.jpg
Bachmann D27 - Decoder Pro (Free open source software)

 

I would experiment and I ended up raising CV ‘63’ to a value of 151 – as used in all the above video links.

 

http://youtu.be/ruX24WIP83w

 

I have posted the link above to a further slightly longer video which confirms that after a little bit of practice it is perfectly possible to drive the train to a halt whilst at the same time leaving the engine running and the headcode box lights switched on. (Apologies for another bouncy video where I was holding the camera in one hand and turning the control knob with the other.) I would say that driving a Digital Sound locomotive on analogue DC provides a whole new ‘play’ experience.

 

However after a short while I have to admit to finding the noise rather wearing!

 

27931305136_840e93c124_b.jpg
Bachmann D95 left, D27 right

 

As I go, a comparison view of D27 and D95. The latter arrived on the layout in 2009 and as far as I can tell, the chassis /body shell is completely interchangeable with D27.

 

27931303806_129a4bfd83_b.jpg
Bachmann D27

 

Finally – a departing shot. Must go and read up some more about digital control chips.

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7 Comments

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  • RMweb Gold
Mikkel
  • RMweb Gold

How interesting, I never knew that was possible!

 

Recently when looking at videos of locos with sound, I've wondered how (and whether) sound-ethusiasts address the issue of "scale sound". Eg, I sometimes get confused if a loco is seen (or filmed) from afar but exhibits a loud noise as if it is close to the viewer. Of course, in videos one major problem is that you can't control the volume setting on the viewers laptop!

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Silver Sidelines

Thanks Mikkel.  I look forward to your contributions.  

 

.. I've wondered how (and whether) sound-ethusiasts address the issue of "scale sound"..

My physics is a bit rusty but 'speed of sound' suggests a velocity component with dimensions 'L' which is scaleable.  Perhaps more relevant is sound energy which again has a dimension 'L', so yes there should be a scaling factor of 1 to 76.

 

In another answer to your question I spotted some instructions for playing with digital sound locomotives using digital control.  The point being made was that using digital control it was possible to cut down the sound volume as the train entered a tunnel or even passed beneath bridges.

 

Slightly off topic but I think speaker design probably also has a part to play.  D211 a newer Bachmann model than D27 has a completely different design of speaker clipped directly to the fan opening in the body shell.  The sound is very crisp.  D27 has a conventional looking speaker fastened to the ballast weight within the locomotive.

 

Quite a lot to learn.

 

Speak again

 

Ray

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  • RMweb Premium
Ian Smeeton
  • RMweb Premium

Well impressed by the sound on DC. I didn't think it would be anywhere near as good as that, especiall with coasting, and idling.

 

Regards

 

Ian

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Silver Sidelines

Hello Ian

 

Thanks for the interest

Well impressed by the sound on DC. I didn't think it would be anywhere near as good as that, especiall with coasting, and idling.

 

Regards

 

Ian

I too have been very pleasantly surprised.  You have to be sensitive when operating the controller but the videos show what can be achieved with just one hand whilst making a video.  The ESU LokSound v4.0 chip is clever - but then these chips were originally developed for the German / US markets long before Digital Control appeared.

 

Speak again

 

Ray

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  • RMweb Gold
Mikkel
  • RMweb Gold

 The point being made was that using digital control it was possible to cut down the sound volume as the train entered a tunnel or even passed beneath bridges.

 

That sounds intriguing. For me such things would help make sound believable, ie if what I heard matched what I saw, if you see what I mean.

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SGP

LGB had full digital sound on analogue way before digital reared its ugly head. Start up and shutdown / tickover / revs up and down / gearchange or weak fields / air brakes / battery switch / horn or bell .... all by one analogue control knob. 

Now that Marklin have taken them over, the sound is digital only ... proof of which way we are being forced. 

 

BTW, regarding Class 45 with the connecting doors, D11 to D15 ONLY had these and although the twin box style was continued afterwards, there were no doors on those. As D11 to D15 went through works, not only were the doors taken away, but complete new front ends were fitted with centre split boxes. Annoying because I collect first of class only and to have D11 in twin box style, I need to scribe in the interconnecting doors. Additionally, D11 to D19 also had the long cab handrails but later received the shorter type as fitted to D20 onwards.

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Silver Sidelines

Hello SGP

 

Sorry for the delay in replying.  We needed to be out in the garden before the weather broke.

 

I too sense that modellers are being forced down the digital route - for whose benefit?  It all makes for an expensive hobby out of reach for a lot of up and coming youngsters.

 

LGB had full digital sound on analogue way before digital reared its ugly head. Start up and shutdown / tickover / revs up and down / gearchange or weak fields / air brakes / battery switch / horn or bell .... all by one analogue control knob. 

Now that Marklin have taken them over, the sound is digital only ... proof of which way we are being forced. 

 

BTW, regarding Class 45 with the connecting doors, D11 to D15 ONLY had these and although the twin box style was continued afterwards, there were no doors on those. As D11 to D15 went through works, not only were the doors taken away, but complete new front ends were fitted with centre split boxes. Annoying because I collect first of class only and to have D11 in twin box style, I need to scribe in the interconnecting doors. Additionally, D11 to D19 also had the long cab handrails but later received the shorter type as fitted to D20 onwards.

Thanks also for the additional information on the detail differences amongst the early Peaks.  I had no idea that the early ones receoived completely new nose ends. 

 

Regards

 

Ray

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