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Water Tower?

wenlock

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In my  imagination at the other side of the road bridge lies Sherton Abbas's engine shed, turntable, water tower and ash pit.  

 

Road Bridge

IMG_2411a.jpg.2dbdd202027ae7a771622f1e963a4174.jpg

 

However the Station Building would need a water supply and in 1904 it probably wouldn't have been connected to a mains supply.  I've also thought that it would have been more convenient for locomotives requiring water to be able to access a supply near the platform rather than having to go to the engine shed.  I'd appreciate any thoughts on all this! 

 

I thought that a water tower situated at the end of the run round loop might be suitable, here's a picture of that end of the layout .

 

Stop block end of the layout.

IMG_2444a.jpg.57c48ba980a125b45388d6dea6788800.jpg

 

Before committing myself to anything permanent I thought a quick mock up in card would be sensible.  As the station building is based on Abbotsbury, I thought the water tower from the same station would be a suitable prototype.  The card mock up was made, but when positioned on the layout looks enormous and to my eye detracts rather than adds to the scene!  Once again your thoughts would be much appreciated!

 

Water tower mock up

IMG_2451a.jpg.d25f4ab925dff64f0df00edd56615368.jpg

 

IMG_2448a.jpg.6d825bb4055db3dffb0e9c54b447ceae.jpg

 

I probably should leave well alone, but still quite like the idea of a water tower. Something smaller might fit the bill, again any suggestions most welcome!

 

All part of the fun!:-)

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

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My feeling is that the water tank would be at the shed - either a separate tower or a tank over the shed; the water would be piped to a crane at the shed but possibly also to a crane at the station - probably at the departure end of the platform. That would obstruct sighting of the signal, which would need to be re-sited. But I really don't know much about Great Western practice.

 

I do think that the space you've got where you've put the mock-up is too tight for a sensibly-sized structure with adequate clearances.

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Hi Dave,

 

Much like yourself I have wrestled with possibly putting a water tower onto my as yet unbuilt layout.

 

Hope you don't mind the intrusion with my scratch built effort but its here to show what a 90mm x 105mm footprint would be like basically.

 

If anyone wanted to be pedantic about the use of a water tower on a branch terminus then there are plenty of discussions elsewhere ( hopefully not on your Blog please ! ) and I am just portraying mine as an example of a smaller ( ? ) tower that would fit.

 

I don't think you would spoil what is a beautifully modelled layout and also Rule 1 applies eh ?

 

If you want one and it blends into the scene then I for one say do it, it doesn't look to be spoiling anything by being there.

 

G

 

IMG_0403.jpg.35e52fd3bdce992c867ba478cfb8c23a.jpg

 

IMG_0404.jpg.fa50c35299f534cfe9c01f7fa20830e7.jpg

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I do like BGman’s tower.  It has less mass than the Abbotsbury mock up (which is a lovely prototype but too big to between tracks).

Edited by drduncan
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One thing that's always struck me with Sherton is the spaciousness of the headshunt end of the layout, which to me is one of those features that lifts it above the competition; there's a real feeling of locos trundling quietly into the distance before they come back around the loop. I do think the mock-up somewhat undermines this, as well as detracting from the excellently effective view of the abbey on the backscene, which works really well as it stands, and as you know gets a lot of positive comments at exhibitions. I think people really like that sense of nothing much going on at that end of the layout, which really helps emphasize the bucolic atmosphere of an isolated branch terminus.

 

I don't really have an alternative suggestion (so not very helpful really!) but I'd be wary of undoing the good work that's already there.

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Thinking a bit more, if you're determined to have it at that end of the layout, perhaps a slightly smaller tower set back into a bricked recess in the embankment more or less where the loco is situated? It presumably wouldn't matter if the loco was stopped over the release points to be watered; after all there are cattle-docks positioned adjacent to double-slips and so on.

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I'm rather in favour of leaving that part of the layout open, it's really lovely: "less is more" as I think the saying goes.

 

I have to add that bgman's water tower is a fabulous thing indeed! What a great bit of modelling.

 

Chris

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If you do need a water facility at that end of the layout, could the water tower be further back (in the road yard?), with just a crane next to the headshunt?

 

  

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As Compound2632 suggested, you could just have a water crane at the headshunt end, either ground or platform mounted.

Ragstone models do a couple of suitable GWR types:

http://www.ragstonemodels.co.uk/water-columns.html

ragstone.jpg.a74782b2042d0910cbd43dc8da924d8a.jpg

 

These would be gravity fed from the water tower at the shed (beyond the overbridge).

 

Just finished reading your blog from beginning to end. Marvelous work. I'm looking forward to seeing the layout at Aylesbury in a couple of month's time.

 

Edit: Sorry - I just did a google search and came up with something you posted over two years ago (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114430-water-crane-for-sherton-abbas/), so please disregard my comments!

I feel such a fool!

 

 

Edited by GWR57xx

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Hmm, I'd tend to agree with Compound, a tower there does look a bit too tight and blocks the vista over the fields to the abbey. 

 

As you suggest the full facilities would be the other side of the bridge. Well, might be cheeky of me , but I look forward to seeing  a couple more boards between the bridge and the fiddle yard....... 

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If all else fails Dave there's always a space saving to be had with one of these ! :lol:

 

616084332_stirruppump.jpeg.808d5f505d4b9f1da5c28c19adff691f.jpeg

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I don't think it works in that location, either - too much shoe-horned in and it 'fights' with the Church tower in the backscene.  You could make the tower a part of the backscene at the other end, as suggested below, where I've grafted in part of bgman's splendid tower behind the trees:

 

WaterTank.jpg.e519850ab974e365c11f4b7eeac5fdfe.jpg

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Where was the water tower located at Abbotsbury? At the loco release, or on the shed road?

Use your prototype inspiration as the source for, well, your inspiration... (Or possibly, as the well-spring for your ideas.)

 

Edit: if you have it that far down your loco release road, then tender engines running loco first to Sherton Abbas won’t be able to top up.

Edited by Regularity
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I think the tower looks out of place, I would be tempted with either a crane at the end of the platform or possibly one of those balloon tanks.

Well that's my two penn'orth worth anyway.

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I do think one of those pillar tanks would be an ugly intrusion. When did they start to appear, anyway?

 

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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

Hi Dave,

 

I tend to agree with the opinions of the august group above. One option would be to opt for something lighter with a "see-through" effect, such as BGmans rather excellent tower (which I'm sure he'd let you have for free). However it might be a bit too tall and would not solve another problem that I see,  namely that a large structure in that location disrupts the perspective vis-a-vis the church in the background.

 

If you wish to visually balance things, how about simply parking a 7-plank wagon in one of those sidings. What with the wheels and all, it can even form part of the operational routine :)

Edited by Mikkel
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I’m with Peter & others who prefer a crane.  Possibly in the loop at the departure end?

 

best

Simon

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Hi All,

 

Thank you very much  for your views, ideas and suggestions, all very thought provoking and useful.  I'll respond to your comments one by one and then finish with an overall conclusion:-)

 

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

My feeling is that the water tank would be at the shed - either a separate tower or a tank over the shed; the water would be piped to a crane at the shed but possibly also to a crane at the station - probably at the departure end of the platform. That would obstruct sighting of the signal, which would need to be re-sited. But I really don't know much about Great Western practice.

 

I tend to agree with your thoughts, the prototype water tower at Abottsbury was alongside the engine shed away from the station building.

 

I like the idea of a water crane on the platform, but don't really want to move the Home Starter signal!

 

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I do think that the space you've got where you've put the mock-up is too tight for a sensibly-sized structure with adequate clearances.

It was worth a try, but I think you are quite right!

 

21 hours ago, drduncan said:

Perhaps on the other side of the loco release?  

Hi Duncan, that could work, but might involve some judicious pruning of the trees:-)

 

21 hours ago, bgman said:

Hi Dave,

 

Much like yourself I have wrestled with possibly putting a water tower onto my as yet unbuilt layout.

 

If anyone wanted to be pedantic about the use of a water tower on a branch terminus then there are plenty of discussions elsewhere ( hopefully not on your Blog please ! ) and I am just portraying mine as an example of a smaller ( ? ) tower that would fit.

 

I don't think you would spoil what is a beautifully modelled layout and also Rule 1 applies eh ?

 

If you want one and it blends into the scene then I for one say do it, it doesn't look to be spoiling anything by being there.

 

G

 

IMG_0403.jpg.35e52fd3bdce992c867ba478cfb8c23a.jpg

 

IMG_0404.jpg.fa50c35299f534cfe9c01f7fa20830e7.jpg

Hi Grahame,

 

I certainly don't mind the intrusion, that is a truly splendid water tower!  Have you documented it's build anywhere, I'd love to read more about it.

 

I'm beginning to agree with Al's comments that any large structure that end of the layout would detract from the view down to the Abbey on the backscene, which is a shame because I would love a similar tower at Sherton Abbas!

 

21 hours ago, bgman said:

 

Hope you don't mind the intrusion with my scratch built effort but its here to show what a 90mm x 105mm footprint would be like basically.

 

 

The Abbotsbury water tower mock up has a foot print of 120mm x 88mm, so really not much bigger than your lovely tower.  I must admit I hadn't realised just how big water towers really were! 

 

21 hours ago, drduncan said:

I do like BGman’s tower.  It has less mass than the Abbotsbury mock up (which is a lovely prototype but too big to between tracks).

Completely agree Duncan!  I still think it might be a bit big for Sherton Abbas unfortunately.

 

21 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

One thing that's always struck me with Sherton is the spaciousness of the headshunt end of the layout, which to me is one of those features that lifts it above the competition; there's a real feeling of locos trundling quietly into the distance before they come back around the loop. I do think the mock-up somewhat undermines this, as well as detracting from the excellently effective view of the abbey on the backscene, which works really well as it stands, and as you know gets a lot of positive comments at exhibitions. I think people really like that sense of nothing much going on at that end of the layout, which really helps emphasize the bucolic atmosphere of an isolated branch terminus.

 

I don't really have an alternative suggestion (so not very helpful really!) but I'd be wary of undoing the good work that's already there.

Thanks Al, the illusion of spaciousness was exactly what I was trying to achieve with the layout and the main reason that I chose to have 4 foot six inch deep baseboards. I love your description of "locos trundling quietly into the distance" and certainly don't want to compromise that!

 

21 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Thinking a bit more, if you're determined to have it at that end of the layout, perhaps a slightly smaller tower set back into a bricked recess in the embankment more or less where the loco is situated? 

I think if I had a bit more space that scenario could work very well.  I'm starting to think that anything added to that end of the layout might spoil things by "over egging the pudding"

 

21 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

  (so not very helpful really!) but I'd be wary of undoing the good work that's already there.

No it's very helpful Al!  

Your final comment is something I need to bear in mind.

"I think people really like that sense of nothing much going on at that end of the layout, which really helps emphasize the bucolic atmosphere of an isolated branch terminus"

 

21 hours ago, 5&9Models said:

I'm rather in favour of leaving that part of the layout open, it's really lovely: "less is more" as I think the saying goes.

 

Thanks Chris, glad you like the layout!  the saying "Less is more" is probably very appropriate:-)

 

21 hours ago, 5&9Models said:

I have to add that bgman's water tower is a fabulous thing indeed! What a great bit of modelling.

 

It really is stunning!

 

21 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

If you do need a water facility at that end of the layout, could the water tower be further back (in the road yard?), with just a crane next to the headshunt?

  

Hi Stubby, that could work, but I'm beginning to take the hint that I should leave well alone:-)

 

19 hours ago, GWR57xx said:

As Compound2632 suggested, you could just have a water crane at the headshunt end, either ground or platform mounted.

Ragstone models do a couple of suitable GWR types:

http://www.ragstonemodels.co.uk/water-columns.html

ragstone.jpg.a74782b2042d0910cbd43dc8da924d8a.jpg

 

These would be gravity fed from the water tower at the shed (beyond the overbridge).

 

I really like this idea of just having a water crane at this end of the layout.  My only concern is whether they would have gone to the expense of piping the water right down to the end of the run round loop, rather than placing the water crane on the departure end of the platform.  Any thoughts on this much appreciated!:-)  Any prototype pictures of a water crane at the run around end of a terminus would be very handy!

 

19 hours ago, GWR57xx said:

Just finished reading your blog from beginning to end. Marvelous work. I'm looking forward to seeing the layout at Aylesbury in a couple of month's time.

 

Really glad you are looking forward to seeing the layout, It should be a really good weekend:-)

 

19 hours ago, GWR57xx said:

Edit: Sorry - I just did a google search and came up with something you posted over two years ago (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114430-water-crane-for-sherton-abbas/), so please disregard my comments!

I feel such a fool!

Lol!, No need for any apologies, I'd completely forgotten about that post and have just gone back and re-read it!

 

18 hours ago, Dave John said:

Hmm, I'd tend to agree with Compound, a tower there does look a bit too tight and blocks the vista over the fields to the abbey. 

 

Hi Dave, I'm definitely coming round to that way of thinking!

 

18 hours ago, Dave John said:

 Well, might be cheeky of me , but I look forward to seeing  a couple more boards between the bridge and the fiddle yard....... 

I'm working on Mrs Wenlock with a view to being allowed to extend my workshop.  If negotiations are successful you might well get your wish!  The deal breaker at the moment is that her hot tub is in the way, some people have their priorities all wrong!:-)

17 hours ago, bgman said:

If all else fails Dave there's always a space saving to be had with one of these ! :lol:

 

616084332_stirruppump.jpeg.808d5f505d4b9f1da5c28c19adff691f.jpeg

Now that's a much easier feature to incorporate and certainly wouldn't block the view to the Abbey!:-)

 

17 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

I don't think it works in that location, either - too much shoe-horned in and it 'fights' with the Church tower in the backscene.  You could make the tower a part of the backscene at the other end, as suggested below, where I've grafted in part of bgman's splendid tower behind the trees:

 

WaterTank.jpg.e519850ab974e365c11f4b7eeac5fdfe.jpg

Thanks Mike, that's a great bit of photo trickery:-)   It actually works rather well and definitely suggests more going on the other side of the bridge.  I need to give that idea more thought.

 

16 hours ago, Regularity said:

Where was the water tower located at Abbotsbury? At the loco release, or on the shed road?

Use your prototype inspiration as the source for, well, your inspiration... (Or possibly, as the well-spring for your ideas.)

 

At Abbotsbury the water tower was alongside the engine shed quite a way from the platform, as you say the prototype often has the answers we are looking for!

 

16 hours ago, Regularity said:

Edit: if you have it that far down your loco release road, then tender engines running loco first to Sherton Abbas won’t be able to top up.

Hmmm that would stop me using my Dean Goods and that would never do!

 

16 hours ago, N15class said:

I think the tower looks out of place, I would be tempted with either a crane at the end of the platform or possibly one of those balloon tanks.

Well that's my two penn'orth worth anyway.

Hi Pete, I beginning to agree, the tower does look out of place!

 

16 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I do think one of those pillar tanks would be an ugly intrusion. When did they start to appear, anyway?

 

Yes I'm not really a fan of the conical or flat topped type of towers, so don't want to go down that route.

 

6 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Hi Dave,

 

I tend to agree with the opinions of the august group above. One option would be to opt for something lighter with a "see-through" effect, such as BGmans rather excellent tower (which I'm sure he'd let you have for free). However it might be a bit too tall and would not solve another problem that I see,  namely that a large structure in that location disrupts the perspective vis-a-vis the church in the background.

 

Thanks Mikkel, the consensus certainly appears to be nothing too large at that end of the layout!

 

I don't think it would be unreasonable for Grahame to give me his water tower, as he says he hasn't built a layout yet:-)  It might be just the incentive I need to model the "Other side of the bridge!"

 

6 hours ago, Mikkel said:

If you wish to visually balance things, how about simply parking a 7-plank wagon in one of those sidings. What with the wheels and all, it can even form part of the operational routine :)

No there's a simple solution:-)

 

5 hours ago, Simond said:

I’m with Peter & others who prefer a crane.  Possibly in the loop at the departure end?

 

best

Simon

Thanks Simon, I don't think I've got quite enough clearance to put a crane in the loop unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

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Hi Dave,
Just been catching up with the photos re a possible water tower location, as we were just discussing

To my way of thinking, a water tower is such a railway-like structure, I would want one, if Sherton Abbas were my layout
But placement of one, without detracting from the sense of spaciousness of the scene, is indeed a tricky thing....

Definitely don't put one at the far end of the platform. To me, it looks "wrong" somehow. I would expect to see one at the departure end of the layout
Besides - it does compete with, and dominate the photo of the Abbey, and that works so very well just as it is

I'd either opt for a low-relief WT, just beyond the overbridge, or more likely, a photograph of one in the distance, as Mike has demonstrated with his photo-trickery - where one would assume it is alongside the engine shed, coaling stage and ashpit. I think that works rather well, and suggests that more railway lies beyond the bridge nicely. If you have a suitable photo of a water tower you like, or would like to "adapt" - let me know & I'll sort it for you

Edited by marc smith
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38 minutes ago, marc smith said:

Hi Dave,
Just been catching up with the photos re a possible water tower location, as we were just discussing

To my way of thinking, a water tower is such a railway-like structure, I would want one, if Sherton Abbas were my layout
But placement of one, without detracting from the sense of spaciousness of the scene, is indeed a tricky thing....

Definitely don't put one at the far end of the platform. To me, it looks "wrong" somehow. I would expect to see one at the departure end of the layout
Besides - it does compete with, and dominate the photo of the Abbey, and that works so very well just as it is

I'd either opt for a low-relief WT, just beyond the overbridge, or more likely, a photograph of one in the distance, as Mike has demonstrated with his photo-trickery - where one would assume it is alongside the engine shed, coaling stage and ashpit. I think that works rather well, and suggests that more railway lies beyond the bridge nicely. If you have a suitable photo of a water tower you like, or would like to "adapt" - let me know & I'll sort it for you

Hi Marc, completely agree water towers are such "railway like structures and I would love one, but not at the expense of the layouts aesthetics.

 

The water tower on the backscene is a really good option and does as you say suggest more going on on the other side of the bridge:-)

 

Thanks for the offer of your Photoshop skills, as you know I can just about manage to type with one finger lol!

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The need for a water tower for watering locos at the station depends on the length of your branch line.

If the length of the branch is such that the locos need to take water at your station  for every trip, then the tower needs to be large enough to have the capacity to top up the loco's tanks with enough left over to meet the station's needs.

A question worth considering is if the station is not on a main water supply, where does it get it's water from?

How quickly can the water tank be replenished?

 

Gordon A

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20 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

A question worth considering is if the station is not on a main water supply, where does it get it's water from?

How quickly can the water tank be replenished?

 

 

It's likely to be supplied from a nearby watercourse, the railway having negotiated water rights. Ideally there'd be a stream up the hillside, above the tank level. Alternatively, there may have to be a pump. Here's a photo of the facilities at Abbotsbury, in a ruinous state. (I'm sure Dave is familiar with this photo.)

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I wouldn't let a drop of water spoil your fun Dave, after all its all about having fun ! :lol:

 

titfield.jpg.d3651b8135c5a636f48686eba8b01cee.jpg

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If you have room for it, you could always build a small diorama with loco shed and water tank, as a display piece.

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55 minutes ago, bgman said:

I wouldn't let a drop of water spoil your fun Dave, after all its all about having fun ! :lol:

 

titfield.jpg.d3651b8135c5a636f48686eba8b01cee.jpg

Hi Grahame, quite right!  Thanks for the appropriate picture from one of my favourite films!

 

9 minutes ago, Regularity said:

If you have room for it, you could always build a small diorama with loco shed and water tank, as a display piece.

That’s actually a very good idea!  If and when I extend the layout and model the other side of the bridge I would have all the necessary buildings already made!

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