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Class 37 or Class 55? Bachmann Bogies


Silver Sidelines

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I am now the proud owner of two BR Green Bachmann Class 37s.

 

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Two Bachmann Class 37s produced around 2004

 

According to Mick Parker’s splendid new Class 37 web site https://www.class37.co.uk/fleet.aspx?strnumber=37676 my D6707 was outshopped in 1961 and spent its early life allocated to March.  D6826 was a later design without gangway end doors and was outshopped in 1963.  It was first allocated to Cardiff Canton.  Although outside of my layout period it was reported as being based in the north east of England between 1966 and 1969.

 

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Two Bachmann Class 37s, note the blue BR WR route availability symbol on D6826

 

 

These Bachmann models date from 2004.  They were unused and would have been ‘resting’ in their packing for around 15 years.  Not surprisingly when placed on the track they were rather reluctant to move.

 

In one case the motor was dead.  There was an oily residue in the packaging and I surmised that the brushes might be gummed to the commutator.  I dropped one of the bogies and turned one end of the motor by hand.  I was lucky, with power from the track the motor stuttered back into life.

 

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Early Bachmann Chassis - Class 55 top Class 37 bottom

 

The early Bachmann Class 37s are similar internally to the larger Class 55 Deltics and as such are easily dismantled.  Both Class 37s were taken completely apart, excess oil removed where it shouldn’t have been and fresh oil applied to the dried up motor bearings.  I even had to prise out one of the motors to tighten the fixing screws for the plastic cradle.  These screws must have been loose when the model left the factory.

 

Back together and performance was much improved.  However I thought both engines had a wobble.  I would swap some wheels (and gears if needed).

 

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Bachmann Class 37 bogie (L) with Bachmann Class 55 bogie (R) NB Different designs of steps

 

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Bachmann Class 37 bogie (L) with Bachmann Class 55 bogie (R) NB Finer profile leading wheels at the right of the picture

 

My last two Blog Posts have been concerned with Bachmann Deltics.  I have become very familiar with the Deltic bogies highlighting how the leading wheels have a smaller profile to assist with negotiating ‘train set’ curves.  Comparing my early Class 37 and early two axle driven Deltic bogies I had decided that with the exception of the front wheel profiles, the Class 37 and Class 55 bogies were identical.

 

What about the prototype?  I would dig out my copy of ‘British Railways Main-Line Diesels’ by RS Carter from 1963.  Quoting from RS Carter ”The traction motors (Class 37) are identical and interchangeable with the traction motors fitted to the production “Deltics”.  The bogies, too, are generally similar to those on the “Deltics”.”

 

The Deltics were rated at 100mph whilst the Class 37s were only rated for 90mph.  From memory the speed rating was linked to construction, some bogies being welded whilst others had ‘cast’ parts   I can also remember reading when the Deltics were withdrawn that their higher speed rated bogies were given to Class 37s, and this included those Deltics sold into preservation.

 

I had some spare Bachmann Class 55 bogies so I would swap wheel sets around between the different classes.  How wrong can you be!  The Deltic wheel sets went into the Class 37 bogies no bother and the wobbles disappeared.  However all was not well with the replacement centre driven wheel in the Class 55 bogie which no longer sat evenly on the track.  I only have dividers and a steel rule for measuring but my check showed that the wheels in the Bachmann Class 55 two driven axle bogies were 14mm diameter whilst the wheels from the Class 37 were 14.5mm (the same as some spares that I had for a Class 24).  I checked a couple of other old Bachmann Deltics and they were all fitted with the smaller diameter bogie wheels – so yet another ‘trick’ to ease the Bachmann model round over tight radius curves?

 

In the absence of ‘one’ outside to measure I have had another look in my copy of  ‘British Railways Main-Line Diesels’ by RS Carter published 1963.  I also visited the Scale Four Societies CLAG web site and Wikipedia.  I have summarised my findings below.  More details are presented as an Appendix at the end of this Post.

 

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Being the owner of a 1973 MGB I am well aware of differences between present day and past specifications.  The Class 37 and Class 55 locomotives are even older than my MG so it is not surprising that there are differences of opinion.  I would say that the evidence confirms that the Class 37 and Class 55 used the same wheels, with a diameter in the range 3’7” to 3’-9”.  I would also say that the wheels used on the BachmannClass 55 Deltics are a touch undersize.

 

For completeness I have posted a video on YouTube showing my two overhauled Class 37s running with correct sized wheels.  I am well pleased.

 

http://youtu.be/_iZ_vVi7AOQ

 

Appendix

Wheel Size Data

 

Firstly two extracts from RS Carters book from 1963.  The 4.3” wheel diameter for the Class 55 Deltic seems erroneous.  The drawings were made to be 3.5mm to the foot to fit the printed page.  The erroneous dimension might have been added as an afterthought and the value would be correct for a drawing scale of 3mm to the foot.

 

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Class 37 dimensions from 'British Railways Main-Line Diesels' RS Carter 1963

 

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Class 55 dimensions from 'British Railways Main-Line Diesels' RS Carter 1963

 

Secondly an extract from the Scalefour Society website.  Interesting to see the foot note rejecting a size of 3’ 9” for the Class 37 wheels.

 

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Comparison dimensions for Class 37 and Class 55 from the Scalefour Society

 

Finally some extracts from Wikipedia:

 

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Comparison dimensions for Class 37 and Class 55 from Wikipedia

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Another excellent piece of investigation. I'd always assumed that Bachmann had used the same bogies and wheels in the 37 as the 55, clearly not!

 

I bought 2 of D6707 and a D6826 when they came out, and recently took one of the D6707's apart for cleaning and detailing. The grease in the bogies was appalling, and explained the continual appearance of slime around the mouldings despite superficial cleaning each time the loco had been run. I've also raised the buffers a bit to give a better proportion to the front end, as the Carter drawing shows the buffer centre should be in line horizontally to the bottom of the bodyshell, and the valance in which the buffers sit can be trimmed below as well.

 

Despite the over-oiling from this period, I really like the early Bachmann 37's and 55's (and indeed their other diesels of this era). Four rather than six wheel drive seems to be of no consequence at all to haulage, and properly lubricated they run with a satisfying hum, folk forget that before the 66's arrived diesels weren't quiet. I'm also very happy not to have lights, as these weren't usually visible in daytime in the 60's and 70's. Plus, there isn't a mass of wires to be ploughed through (and a huge PCB) if you wish to open one up and have a fiddle about.

 

All good wishes,

 

John.

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1 hour ago, John Tomlinson said:

All good wishes,

Thanks John

 

I hadn't spotted the buffer height difference on the '37s.  I will take a closer look.  I rather like the large diameter heads but perhaps they would have conflicted with the front coupling if lower.

 

Like you I see no point in running an engine around in daylight with a bright light inside the cab.  I think my early Class 47 (D1500) only has marker lights and tail lights (which can be switched off)  - but no cab lighting.

 

Cheers Ray

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You can’t trust a drawing... Pinza’s nameplate is not centred under the grills in the Carter drawing.

 

Very interesting about the bogies. My recollection is that, when the bogies under the Deltics were transferred to Class 37s, those 37s were renumbered to 37350 onwards to distinguish the from the standard ones.

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2 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

. My recollection is that, when the bogies under the Deltics were transferred to Class 37s, those 37s were renumbered to 37350 onwards to distinguish the from the standard ones.

Thanks Brushman

So we can perhaps trust our memories?

Cheers Ray

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3 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

.. Pinza’s nameplate is not centred under the grills in the Carter drawing.

 

Just checking Bachmann's model!

 

46826203244_888053cd3e_b.jpg

 

 

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Further to the comments about the 37 noses, the consensus I seem to remember is that with the early split headcode models inc. D6707, the front is too deep, not least because the valance behind the buffer is too long and so the buffers sit too low. The face on the early central headcode ones is also thought to be a bit out, but perhaps not so much.

 

Later models such as those with lights have a different nose arrangement, the front of the nose is a separate detachable mounting, but comparison to drawings and the early models suggest it is too thick, so the overall nose is too long. Whether any of this is noticeable as the locos work round a layout is of course another matter!

 

I did enjoy your video of the two green ones on good length traditional freights, doing what they were meant to do rather than using a pair to pull four coaches around the Norfolk Broads - although we should of course be grateful that in the real world they have survived so long.

 

Best wishes,

 

John.

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1 hour ago, John Tomlinson said:

.......Later models such as those with lights have a different nose arrangement, the front of the nose is a separate detachable mounting, but comparison to drawings and the early models suggest it is too thick, so the overall nose is too long. Whether any of this is noticeable as the locos work round a layout is of course another matter!

 

I did enjoy your video

 

Thank you John - it has been a super sunny day - in the garden.  It was a good week and now I have a spit head code BR Green lighted version.  I didn't think it looked any different to the non-lighted versions.  I shall now inspect with a renewed interest.

 

Cheers  Ray

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3 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

.Later models such as those with lights have a different nose arrangement, the front of the nose is a separate detachable mounting, but comparison to drawings and the early models suggest it is too thick, so the overall nose is too long. Whether any of this is noticeable as the locos work round a layout is of course another matter!.

 

Thanks again John

 

Two pictures, D6707 left and D6714 right with lights.  Yes there are differences - but nothing majorly to worry about.

 

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Fantastic,

 

I have a couple of poorly Bachman 37’s and with the growing number of cheap 55’s on ebay I was considering one for spares.

 

Despite the wheel dimensions, do you know if the gearing / axle is the same on 37/55 models ? (Ive a split gear and was considering to swap a wheel, but after reading that maybe an axle swap is what i need ?).

 

the actual bogie side frames themselves should be different, not just the steps, but 55 bogies were cast not fabricated and look different.

 

Here's the 37, note the "rim" outline all round the top section of the bogie, there is no indented/ depressed section on the 55 or the 50 bogies.IMG_3699.JPG.15a00a03246a9827fa7f81c8bee95632.JPGIMG_3706.JPG.516bf94865124566c8f8d3861840e2f2.JPG

 

seen clearer on the Hornby Class 50...IMG_3698.JPG.7b6068d6e2e4fb3e6e2cbe2a6fa73ecd.JPG

Edited by adb968008
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2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

Despite the wheel dimensions, do you know if the gearing / axle is the same on 37/55 models ? (Ive a split gear and was considering to swap a wheel, but after reading that maybe an axle swap is what i need ?).

 

the actual bogie side frames themselves should be different, not just the steps, but 55 bogies were cast not fabricated and look different.

 

.

 

Thank you adb

 

I knew that one bogie frame was cast.  I had totally missed the lack of a ridge around the top of the Deltic bogies  It all begins to make sense.  If the Bachmann Deltic moulding is different to the '37 - then why shouldn't the wheels also be different.

 

I don't have a definite answer for you  about gears.  This Blog Post all started because I had taken a Class 55 wheel set and put it into a Class 37 bogie.  In the middle position the smaller diameter wheel ran smoothly with gears meshed.  When I put the larger Class 37 wheel set into the Deltic bogie the running was noisey and the locomotive crashed through points.  It was then that I noticed that the bogie was see-sawing around the replacement middle Class 37 wheel set.

 

I would say my experience indicates that the gears are interchangeable.

 

Regards  Ray

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Looking at Ray's picture of D6707 facing D6714, I've been struggling to understand how the latter stands taller than the former, but the distance between the top of the bogie and the bottom of the bodyshell looks similar.

 

On a whim, some years ago I bought the Rail Express limited run of 37501 & 502 - they're quite pretty but don't fit with my layout and in all truth I probably ought to sell them on. However they are of the later Bachmann model, with detachable nose fronts and a better front face. Having done some measuring, it transpires that the top of the bogie casting is getting on for 1mm deeper than on the earlier models, and therefore fills more of the space beneath the bodyshell. So Bachmann must have redone the bogie moulding at some stage.

 

One of my four Bachmann Deltics is six wheel drive, with 21 pin plug and lights, however it still has the Mk2 bogie tower. The bogie casting appears to be the same on this as my other three, which are all of the four wheel drive original run. I wonder if the Mk3 Bogie tower has a different thickness in casting?

 

Now, who's up for Mastermind with a special subject " Bachmann diesels, the detail differences"!

 

John.

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3 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

..Now, who's up for Mastermind with a special subject " Bachmann diesels, the detail differences"!
 

 

Thanks John - it might appear that you have not been out in the garden!  (We have!)

 

What a mine field.  When I decided I needed some spare Deltic towers Jenni offered me bogies without wheels.  I cannot remember but I don't think i received frames either.  So I cannot answer your question as to whether the frames have been redesigned.  I have swapped so many bits around between models I cannot say what came from where!  A quick check suggests that all my Deltic bogies frames are identical - modeled on the 'cast' frame scenario without any top framing.

 

I have been interested in the 'D200' Class 40 models and was aware that Bachmann had produced a retooled version (with suspect bogie pickups).  I have not been keeping up with Class 37 developments but it might appear that it too has been 'retooled'.  I am obviously easily pleased as the the 2004/6 versions seem to me to still looks good.

 

Shall I put your name forward for Mastermind?

 

Thanks

 

Ray

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5 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

..it transpires that the top of the bogie casting is getting on for 1mm deeper than on the earlier models, and therefore fills more of the space beneath the bodyshell. So Bachmann must have redone the bogie moulding at some stage...

 

I do like these challenges.

 

An attempt to show the deeper bogie top section.

 

47505334592_a0dd13afff_b.jpg

Spot the one with lights on the right!

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Thanks Ray. I think your last picture makes the point about thickness very clearly, particularly looking at the pairs of vertical plates between the wheels, above and offset to the springs.

 

This picture also shows that Bachmann's green has changed to be "richer" for want of a better word, and I think we've noticed this on some of the steam models as well.

 

Yesterday in Rutland was miserable, low cloud with periodic drizzle, and I didn't venture far at all, I think you had a much better day for being out in the garden.

 

I'll have to do a bit of swotting up on 20's and 25's before trying for Mastermind, and will confirm when I'm ready!

 

Best wishes,

 

John.

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21 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

.I'll have to do a bit of swotting up on 20's and 25's before trying for Mastermind, and will confirm when I'm ready!..

 

I shall await more updates.

 

Very interesting to hear the detail changes that Bachmann made to their 'model with lights'.  I wonder if that means that the tops of the bogies are now over deep? I am not impressed with the seam line where the front face is fixed on.  I think the line is very noticeable even when the engine is running round my track.  Perhaps mine is a bad example?

 

Shades of green - a perennial topic.  I had been thinking that the older model seemed to reflect light colours.  The green seems to take on a much lighter shade (to use your your words less rich) if it it is alongside something light coloured, for example a rake of cream pullmans.  Luckily 1961 was a long time ago so we cannot actually be sure how it looked.

 

Another bright sunny start.  The garden calls.  My muscles are beginning to ache.

 

Cheers Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Ray, coming late to this after a while away. Lovely beasts those two, dark green does something good for engines! 

 

Nice photos of the bogies too by the way, my camera really struggles with black on white photos, but it looks like you have a reasonable lighting set-up. 

 

Good luck in the garden, still very cold here.

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56 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

..Nice photos of the bogies too by the way, my camera really struggles with black on white photos, but it looks like you have a reasonable lighting set-up. .

 

Excellent, hope your Spring is not far away.

 

Lovely and sunny but cold with frost at night - not good for seedlings.

 

Good lighting set up!!!  I took the bogies out into the sunroom on a sheet of A4 and caught a (rare) shaft of sunlight.

 

Thank you again

 

Cheers Ray

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15 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

Good lighting set up!!!  I took the bogies out into the sunroom on a sheet of A4 and caught a (rare) shaft of sunlight.

 

Ha ha, ok well that's the best lighting set up on the planet, I suppose :lol:

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