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I definitely relate to this!!! In fact, these things take soo long, I rarely finish anything and it's so bloody frustrating!

 

I'm a year older than you, been modelling a very similar length of time, similar experience.  In fact I think of the time I spent building airfix kits as a kid as serving my apprenticeship, but of course, as you say, that only leads to the situation you (and I ) are both experiencing.  Even worse, when thinking about the next thing, I spend so much time planning it, I have a mental list of projects waiting to be started, let alone a completed!

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Knuckles

Posted (edited)

It's a PITA!

 

Layout planning takes me eons.

 

Building a kit takes a lot of looking at the instructions and parts doing nothing whilst thinking.

 

The building and especially painting n lining though.....boy oh boy.  One stroke....dry...two stroke, whoops, bit too far...dry.....23-56 days later...

 

Hurry up!!!!

Edited by Knuckles

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I'm glad it's not just me!

 

I'm planning a layout at present, I've got it mostly sussed but have to get on with it.  I'm not planning to have to start over because I haven't the time.

 

Edited by Traintresta
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Knuckles

Posted (edited)

The layout I want to build has been revised in planning with over 100 Anyrail designs and some of them multiple times since 2010.  How's that for naff!?  Mainly due to space lack.

Edited by Knuckles

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Been there, done that. The working name for my layout was Version 99. I seemed to have produced that many options on paper and Anyrail before tracklaying started.

 

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Yeah.  Literally over 100 revisions of the same basic plan I have saved, many of which each file has been saved 10 or 20 times over too.

 

Absolute madess.

 

But when your space is cramped and you move 1 track you have to move 7 more to rejiggle everything.

 

 

 

It's like that game with 8 squares in a 9 square space.  Want to shuffle this one turnout?  Nope, move the whole sodding thing.

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Well, my skills are still at the basic level they were when I took up my scalpel for the first time in 2015, so I need many more years modelling and to get a heck of a lot better before I face this problem.

 

Nice to have something to look forward to!

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I've stuggled with this for too long, I have finally come up with a plan for something relatively familiar (the town I live in) that has potential for growth/expansion, if and when the space becomes available but it has taken years to get to this point.  I have found that focusing on a real place, where I am constrained by the layout of the real thing, has really focused the mind.

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Oh yes, I can relate to this :)   I recently got a 3D printer with which, in theory, I could make anything at all.  What happens?  I'm stuck in thinking about all the possibilities so nothing happens.  There's the old adage that perfection is the enemy of the good.

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11 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

There's the old adage that perfection is the enemy of the good.

 

Yes. And as G.K. Chesterton said, if a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing badly.

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My friend 'suffers' from the same problem you describe. He is intent on getting everything correct/right/accurate that he rarely ever actually does anything. When he does, the results are brilliant, but then it will stall again as he tries to figure out exactly what hand position this particular MG42 gunner should have to be correct for a Fallschirmjager soldier in Normandy in July 1944....

I once watched him play an NFL American Football videogame and I wanted to cry, because he had made it so technical, he spent probably over an hour to choose players to buy, it was the most boring and least game-like experience I've seen.

I guess the real question is who are you doing it for? Are you doing it to seek the approval of your peers, or is it for your personal satisfaction? If it gives you more anguish than pleasure, what's the point?

 

That could sound like 'you should quit and find something else to do', however I hope you do carry on (although I am possibly just self-interested as a happy consumer of the things you make ;) ).

Do you think you'd be happier if you lowered your standards? Or learned to accept that whilst something may not be perfect now, you can always come back and do it again, and if you don't, what does it matter?

e.g. The sun will still rise in the morning despite my Avonside 0-4-0ST's rear axle being located directly under the firebox. I can always build another at some point. Yes it's not up to the standard of other, better, modellers, but I don't give a damn. I care more about finishing than the finish itself.


That's not to say I'm not guilty of the same thing, I too have wrestled with the 'progress vs. perfection' dilemma. I just hope that I have found a middle ground that enables me to carry on enjoying my hobby and wanted to share my experience.

 

I'm not trying to recommend you a path to follow, just thinking out loud really.

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(sorry double post but a recent experience just occurred to me)

We were trying to plan my stepdad's railway for months, hundreds of track plans going into absurd detail and revisions. Eventually we just said 'let's just start building and see what works' and we have a lot of fun together even if it does sometimes involve ripping things out and starting again. 

 

We found that we both enjoyed working together on the railway more than we did just thinking about it.

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Knuckles

Posted (edited)

Well, my skills are still at the basic level they were when I took up my scalpel for the first time in 2015, so I need many more years modelling and to get a heck of a lot better before I face this problem.

 

Nice to have something to look forward to!

 

You gotta have a go to improve for sure, but over time…watch out!

 

I've stuggled with this for too long, I have finally come up with a plan for something relatively familiar (the town I live in) that has potential for growth/expansion, if and when the space becomes available but it has taken years to get to this point.  I have found that focusing on a real place, where I am constrained by the layout of the real thing, has really focused the mind.

 

I’m assuming you mean modelling a real prototype where there is less thinking involved as it’s all there (or was) for you to know what to do.

 

Oh yes, I can relate to this    I recently got a 3D printer with which, in theory, I could make anything at all.  What happens?  I'm stuck in thinking about all the possibilities so nothing happens.  There's the old adage that perfection is the enemy of the good.

 

Start with Thingy verse downloading freebies if you can’t yet 3D model.  I’ve never used Thingy verse but it can be a good start to get something printed…or use it for ideas.

 

Yes. And as G.K. Chesterton said, if a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing badly.

 

Never heard that before but it makes sense if the intent is simply, ‘Get on with it’ and worry about improving it later.

 

I guess the real question is who are you doing it for? Are you doing it to seek the approval of your peers, or is it for your personal satisfaction? If it gives you more anguish than pleasure, what's the point?

 

That could sound like 'you should quit and find something else to do', however I hope you do carry on (although I am possibly just self-interested as a happy consumer of the things you make  ).

 

Not quoting the whole post but I certainly get where you are coming from and appreciate the time spent writing it.  I can see the fun of the management side on video games personally yet can also see why it might send you into a coma too!  Glad you like my stuff. :) Appreciated.

I agree in what you are saying about incentive, firstly it has to be to please the maker of such things then anything else is a bonus.  Doing something for approval is an exercise in futility for sure.  Can’t please everyone.

 

That's not to say I'm not guilty of the same thing, I too have wrestled with the 'progress vs. perfection' dilemma. I just hope that I have found a middle ground that enables me to carry on enjoying my hobby and wanted to share my experience.

 

I'm not trying to recommend you a path to follow, just thinking out loud really.

 

Nah that’s cool.  I need to learn the middle ground.  I’m wired to struggle to figuratively see greys, I do see them but mostly I think in black and whites so modelling is a PITA at times.  On one hand as well as 00 I do some P4 modelling and count all the rivets etc (have to in 3D modelling for example), and on other modelling projects I’m happy if things are a bit ‘meh’ and pass the 2-3 foot rule.  It’s a contradictory mindset but ultimately it depends how much I care about something.  If I’m modelling wagons or coaches on the desk for example I’m not too bothered if is isn’t the ultra modern super detail yet other things I care about every farty thing.

 

'let's just start building and see what works'

 

I used to do that in the early days and kept learning the hard way it often doesn’t work!  At least for me, wasted time, effort and money too many times.  So now I plan for age before starting things, but either approach has its merits.  I’d like to return to the simpler ways but it always bites me in the ring.

 

-

 

Thanks to you all for posting. :)

EDIT:  Ditched the 'quotes' and replied in BOLD instead as they are being buggy.

Edited by Knuckles

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This is an interesting subject, Gavin, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

It is all too possible to analyse things too much and thereby become bogged down in a quagmire of planning, thinking about things, thinking a bit more and generally not doing anything.

 

One thing that I have found, is that when I have over-thought something for far too long, the actual execution of the job turns out to be a lot easier and quicker than I feared.

 

Like you, I have my P4 for times when I want to look fashionable in my hair shirt and OO for other times, except when I think I'm modelling in a more relaxed, OO kind of way, but forget that I haven't taken the hair shirt off. 'Bethesda' is getting a bit like that. I need to get on with it.

 

I take your point about the way that skills improve and older models are 'left behind' as regards the quality stakes. I don't have any easy answers for this one. It's certainly happened to me. In the past, I have had a go at rebuilding a model and on some occasions, it has been worth it. But mostly, I just accept that any given model is a 'snapshot' of that particular time and as long as it meets whatever basic criteria I have set for 'acceptability', I will use it on the layout.

 

Some models have been sold as well, as newer, better models become available. I have sold some older wagons and coaches on EBay, for example, to folk who were clearly happy to buy them, which was fine with me. I also have a very small number of my early models left, which have the status of 'museum pieces' with me. They live in their box (a display cabinet would do, if I had one), but don't get used on the layout. They are simply 'snapshots of the past', I suppose.

 

Your post has, however, prompted me to ask something that has been on my mind for a while now.

 

As we get older (I am now retired), we see that we have fewer modelling years ahead. The question is this, in our quest to get things finished (assuming that this is a priority, it probably isn't for some folk, which is also fine), do we deliberately lower our standards, in order to get the layout finished and operational, so that we can have some fun with it?

 

Or do we keep plodding away, working at the same, higher standard, where everything takes longer, but the finished result is probably of a higher quality, but with the increasing likelihood that we will shuffle off our mortal coil before things are finished?

 

I know what I think the pragmatic answer is for me, but as I said earlier, I keep forgetting to take the hair shirt off!

 

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On 07/07/2019 at 16:46, Captain Kernow said:

This is an interesting subject, Gavin, thanks for sharing your thoughts......

 

 

Thanks. :)

 

You make a good point about whether we should lower standards or not to get stuff done.  Currently I'm 34 so statistically I should have a lot of years left, although in reality tomorrow could be my last, god forbid.  I can appreciate the older you get the more this would be a consideration or worry.    As you said do we lower our standards or not?

 

I think it comes down to Rule 1 again really.  In my modelling I don't consider myself a finescale modeller, but a semi finescale modeller; standatds are chosen differently depending what I'm doing.

For some items I rivet count, Furness J1....eek.  that was a job and a half.

 

For other items I am more happy to be more 'impressionistic' or rough.  Depends how much I care about it.  Some things I do, some I don't.

 

If EVERYTHING was modelled to perfection then little would get done if you are building solo as I am.

 

Having said that I'm still torn between 00 and P4 for the 17.5 x 11' planned layout.

 

I want to do it in P4  but the sheer size of it and projected build time (10-20 years?) makes me think 00 might be a better option.....but I hate the nickel silver colour of rails, narrow gauge and fat wheels.  Constantly torn between the two.

 

I've rebuilt my Duck twice, Henry MKI 3 or 4 times snd done several versions of other ones.

 

Your 'snapshots' of the past is a good way to look at it actually.  Some things are good to accept as they are for a record of improvement and nostalgia.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. :)

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