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Ex GWR 43xx nostalgia – was it Mainline or Bachmann? Resolving some issues

Silver Sidelines

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The ex GWR 43xx engines were one of my all time favourite locomotive types.  They were disappearing fast when I was collecting engine numbers in 1959 / 1960 but for me they seemed to epitomise trains in rural central Wales – somewhere ‘magical’ that we visited for holidays!  When Mainline introduced their 43xx models in the early 1980s it became one of my must have engines.

 

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37-091 Mainline 5328 43xx on my Bracken Ridge Layout around 1982

 

I bought my first Mainline 43xx in 1982 from Modellers World Cheltenham (now the Cheltenham Model Shop).  It was turned out in all over BR black livery with an Early Emblem.  It was priced at £19.95.  It ran very well and continued in service until 2010 when it was sold on eBay for £28!  I seem to recollect that there were lots of black 43xx ‘for sale’ in the 1980s  and I did buy a second model for spares.  The Mainline engine was replaced by a Bachmann model which seemed less frantic than the pancake motor driven Mainline model.  It is very much a case of swings and roundabouts.  With its ‘flywheel’ drive the Bachmann model does run more smoothly compared to the Mainline version but without rubber traction tyres the haulage capacity is somewhat reduced.  I do have one niggle.  Was it a case of value engineering?  The Bachmann and Mainline bodyshells seem to use the same tooling, so why did Bachmann choose to do away with the centre rear tender lamp iron?

 

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31-831 Bachmann 43xx 4358

 

Over the years Bachmann have turned out BR (WR) variants in a variety of liveries and have also produced some models of the 93xx series with side windows cabs.

 

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31-802 Bachmann 93xx 9308

 

However I am not aware of Bachmann repeating the black Early Emblem Mainline model with its minimalistic cab – perhaps because the original model was produced in such great numbers.  There is a steady stream of vintage Mainline 43xx models on that well known auction site and for some time it has been in my mind to buy one and upgrade the mechanism.

 

Recently I came across a ‘spares and repair’ Bachmann 43xx chassis with ‘duff’ wheels and cylinders.  For reasons which I have long since forgotten I had a brand new Bachmann wheel set for the 43xx model which I do know I had bought in error from Peters Spares.  I could rewheel the Bachmann chassis which would then be available to use in a suitable Mainline model.

 

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Bachmann 43xx chassis – spares repair

 

 A word of warning – not all ‘Mint’ Mainline engines will be blemish free.  Even back in the 1980s new the Mainline engines could be less than perfect.  Many arrived minus one or two parts of their whistle.  Also back in those days models were not separately wrapped in tissue paper (bubble wrap had yet to appear) and the models were cradled in direct contact with their polystyrene trays.  The Mainline 43xx model seems to have been particularly prone to an issue where the black paint on the top of the firebox became welded to the white polystyrene tray resulting in a permanent white mark on the locomotive bodyshell.  My patience was rewarded and a suitable unused Mainline model was acquired – thank you Douglas.

 

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Unused 37-091 Mainline 5328 43xx from the 1980s

 

The spares repair Bachmann chassis had broken and missing connecting rods and slidebars.  The cylinder assemblies are completely interchangeable between the Bachmann and Mainline models.  All that is required is the blade of a sharp screwdriver to prise the cylinder block from the Mazac chassis.  Sometimes there are traces of glue but after all these years it has usually gone brittle and offers no resistance.  The connecting rods are retained on the centre driving wheel with a circlip.  Interestingly the diameter of the hole in the Mainline coupling rod where it fits over the driving axle is smaller than the Bachmann model and I had to use my Dremel to ream out the hole before I could reuse the Mainline rods.  The picture below compares the Mainline coupling rod with one from a Bachmann Manor (the Manor and 43xx mechanisms share axle and wheel sets).

 

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Connecting Rods, Bachmann Manor left, Mainline 43xx right

 

Mainline provided ‘bright’ shiny coupling rods and pistons.  I would use my Carrs blackening fluid (for nickel silver).  I bought the fluid some time ago with the idea of blackening the complete motion on an old Bachmann A4.  In the event I decided that I could not remove all the motion from the model and abandoned the idea.  This time I could treat the coupling rods and pistons from the 43xx completely separate from the model.  I used my favourite shallow container, the plastic lid from a Philadelphia carton.   I could lay out the rods and use a stiff paint brush to rub the blackening fluid over them.  Instructions for using the fluid are rather scant but I started by degreasing the rods with surgical spirit and when they had dried I applied the Carrs fluid rubbing all over with the stiff brush.  The rods started to blacken within minutes.  As said in other peoples’ blogs – remove the remaining fluid and wash well with clean water.  Better to have to repeat the blackening exercise rather than to try and clean up metal that has become too dark (too deeply etched).

 

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Ex Mainline coupling rods after treatment with Carrs blackening fluid

 

It was now time to reassemble the chassis and to fit it to the Mainline body shell.

 

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Bachmann / Mainline 5328 43xx

 

I thought it looked good.  However it did not run particularly well.  Sadly it another case of aging plastics, this time the nylon inserts for the driving wheels.  I am all too familiar with the inserts for the Bachmann B1s which with time take in moisture and expand  pushing out at the centre.  For my 43xx chassis the inserts for one wheel set had warped around the edge and lifted, such that the balance weight was standing proud of the wheel rim.

 

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Note Balance Weight standing proud from wheel rim

 

Visually it is hardly noticeable.  Unfortunately the coupling rods for the rear wheels are fitted to rub against the wheel rims and were catching the raised balance weights disturbing the slow speed running.

 

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Warped nylon wheel insert poked out with cocktail stick and centre filed flat

 

My solution was to poke out the nylon insert with a cocktail stick (they are not glued in) and to rub the nylon insert to file the wheel centre flat.  This done the insert was popped back into place sitting comfortably beneath the wheel rim.  Plan B might be to apply some adhesive to hold the edge down – but this would be a last resort.

 

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Bachmann / Mainline 5328 43xx

 

A good outcome I would say – a quiet and smooth running model.

 

There are a couple of brief videos here that I made before with a Bachmann BR green 43xx.  One of the videos has the 43xx starting on a one in sixty grade with 12 wagons – it just about makes it!

 

 

 

Addendum 25.03.20

 

Since first writing this Post I have had to make a few further alterations to improve the running quality of the model.  It now features a Bachmann chassis where there are spring contacts under the centre driver.  I have to admit to not knowing which models had these springs, whether it was the older models or the newer models?  The running is a lot more quiet with the springs.

 

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Two types of Bachmann Chassis

 

I still had an occasional knocking noise / slight jerkiness which coincided with the piston at minimum travel.  There are differences in the plastic mouldings for the cylinders between the Mainline and Bachmann models (surprise surprise).  However this is not the major issue.  The problem is the length of the piston attached to the crosshead.  I think I had the same problem back in time with a Manor Class model.  Shortening the piston, with a file, by as little as 0.5mm completely removes the problem and transforms the running properties.

 

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As Mikkel says below it can run smoothly and quietly.  Double click on the picture below to see the video.

 

49701302273_ba88ae5be1_k.jpgEx GWR 43xx 5328 Mainline Model on Bachmann Chassis by Longsheds, on Flickr

 

 

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13 Comments

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John Tomlinson

I wondered if your pics on Flickr were leading to one of your analyses, and so it proved!

 

A very useful piece as ever, and a reminder that there is a lot of life in some old models. The Mainline mouldings were remarkable for their time and stand up very well today, 30+ years on. The other thing that is striking IMHO is the improvement in appearance by chemically blackening the rods.

 

Best wishes,

 

John.

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Silver Sidelines
1 hour ago, John Tomlinson said:

I wondered if your pics on Flickr were leading to one of your analyses,

 

 

Thank you John I wondered if you would drop in.  It isn't gardening weather yet!

 

Cheers Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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John Tomlinson

Ha, in fact I mowed our grass for the first time today. A couple of dry days and some good wind meant it was very dry and so easy to do. Cold though, too cold to go out with the camera and stand around waiting for something to turn up.

 

Cheers,

 

John.

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Silver Sidelines
19 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Ha, in fact I mowed our grass for the first time today. A couple of dry days and some good wind meant it was very dry and so easy to do. Cold though, too cold to go out with the camera and stand around waiting for something to turn up.

 

Cheers,

 

John.

 

Thanks John, no gardening yesterday, in fact the wind was so strong that you were fighting to stand up.  It is starting to get warmer thank goodness.

 

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Just out of hibernation 13/03/20

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John Tomlinson

Always good to see the first butterfly of the year, and a very crisp picture. Ann saw a Comma here this week, which was our first.

 

Coming back to the 43xx, I seem to remember reading a summary history when the Heljan 7mm model came out, and the tender lining on 4358 was rare if not unique - the distinguishing feature being the extra lining on the top flare which most didn't have. Trust Swindon to go a bit OTT with the paintwork!

 

John.

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Mikkel

Mikkel 24,455

Posted (edited)

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Good to see you posting Ray, and on one of my own favourite loco classes to boot. I've never had any of the Mainline examples, but my Bachmann 43xx and 93xxs are still excellent runners even after all this time.

 

I know that as models they are getting rather long in the tooth, but I've noticed that if a loco is a very good runner I automatically take a liking to them and tend to ignore the detail issues!

 

Edited by Mikkel
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Silver Sidelines
10 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Good to see you posting Ray, and on one of my own favourite loco classes to boot. I've never had any of the Mainline examples, but my Bachmann 43xx and 93xxs are still excellent runners even after all this time.

 

I know that as models they are getting rather long in the tooth, but I've noticed that if a loco is a very good runner I automatically take a liking to them and tend to ignore the detail issues!

 

 

Good - I should find more time and report on some of my other projects.

 

I guess the tooling for the Bachmann bodyshell must be coming up to 40 years old. 

 

When I made a search on Flickr for useful pictures it brought up a link to the Farthing Layouts and your rather tastefully presented 93xx (https://flic.kr/p/pPqi4H ).  If it runs as well as it looks then that is great.

 

Thanks again Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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Mikkel
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It still runs very well. And silently.

 

It will be interesting to see if the Dapol 43xx mechanism can compete. In theory it should be better of course, but in practice who knows?

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Silver Sidelines
On 22/03/2020 at 05:47, Mikkel said:

 

It will be interesting to see if the Dapol 43xx mechanism can compete. In theory it should be better of course, but in practice who knows?

 

Thanks Mikkel - I am sure that there will be numerous members on RMweb who will offer an opinion.

 

Meanwhile my little fleet of Western Diesels is still all Heljan.

 

Keep safe

 

Cheers Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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hayfield

A year or more ago I bought off our favorite auction site what I presume is a Mainline  GWR Mogul with an 00 gauge  Comet etched loco and tender chassis, built bit with a running issue with the cylinders and pickups removed.

 

It has Romford/Markit wheels, Mashima motor and I Presume a Comet gearbox GB1 or GB3. Doubt if I paid much for it ant the thought was to either get it working and put it under a K's 43xx or keep the wheels motor and gearbox and sell the chassis.. I find lots like these at least are a great source of inexpensive parts. Markit wheels probable the best part of £60, Mashima motors £25, a 2 stage gearbox £17/18

 

The main issue seems that the cylinder is not bolted to the chassis and gapped to fit a wider EM gauge chassis, coupled with the crankpins touching the crossheads despite being thinned down, hopefully an easy fix

 

I have now moved to EM gauge, so the wheels motor and gearbox can easily be reused, but do I rebuild the chassis, or just sell the chassis and build a new Comet one ?

 

Certainly the bodies are not for sale as they are far better than I can build a K's one to, its in the pile as a definite keeper. though a new loco chassis maye be the more sensible choice 

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Silver Sidelines
2 hours ago, hayfield said:

Certainly the bodies are not for sale as they are far better than I can build a K's one to, its in the pile as a definite keeper. though a new loco chassis maye be the more sensible choice 

 

The performance of Bachmann split chassis designs is very variable - I would say a bit of a lottery.  I have found huge differences in the running qualities of identical models with no outwardly visible differences.  I would aspire to building an etched chassis but it could not be on the kitchen table and might require skills not yet learnt.  Would I be able to get the quartering of the wheels any better?

 

Cheers  Ray

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hayfield

Ray

 

The wheels are the easy bit if you use Markit/Romford as they self quarter

 

I now have a chassis jig which makes life much easier, but many excellent models have been made on the kitchen table. A set of Hornblock alignment jigs are essential, but thankfully very cheap (£4 ish) also Comet frame jigs (£5.50) and a small glass shelf from a DIY shop. Start off with a simple 0-6-0 chassis without outside cylinders. there are a few good books on both loco and chassis building (Wildild Swan do 3 ) and Tony Wright has one or two great videos

 

Everybody started off not knowing what to do, having a mentor was the thing, but with the web you have forums and videos

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Silver Sidelines
On 22/03/2020 at 05:47, Mikkel said:

It still runs very well. And silently.

 

 

Hello Mikkel - I have added an addendum to the main Post with a short demonstration video confirming quiet and smooth operation.

 

Cheers Ray

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