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EMU - ex-SECR 4SUB Drawings

Lacathedrale

Entry posted by Lacathedrale in EMU

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Worsley Works is a company which will generally offer to etch anything you've got a drawing for, at any scale. It's a real godsend for people modelling in non-commercial scales, or those who can use these 'scratch-aid' pieces to build slightly more offbeat subjects. While one could hardly call a class of multiple hundreds of EMUs offbeat, there certainly were quite a few variants of them - and given how ephemeral their configuration and deployment was, it's less of a case of picking a specific unit and more a case of having a good set of drawings/models/etc. and just making that be the one you're modelling!

 

I have always wanted to have some ex pre-group EMU's - they are really evocative, to me! Most of these units were all being fairly comprehensively rebuilt in the 40's, but some lingered on into the 50's alongside more modern stock.

 

Allen at WW has very kindly agreed to do the artwork for, and etch, the suburban units on my behalf. We had a little back and forth, trying to establish where we might find

 

Exhibit A, your honour, is a drawing from B. Golding's "A Pictorial Record of Southern Electric Units", showing an ex-SECR-bodied EMU on 62'6" frames.

image.png.c6ad82d924405aea46c1181ded69d551.png

snippet of Brian Golding's "Southern Electric UNits: A Pictoral Record"

 

There are some rather strange points about the drawing when compared to one from Mike King:

 

image.png.0706afa847f8851671ac4d306f5829ae.png

snippet of Mike King's "ex-SECR 3Sub drawing"

 

The main differences:

  1. The panelling is much more rounded
  2. The Guard/Luggage cabin is longer, and the lookout panel is narrower
  3. The cnetre of the bogie rests approximately under the grab rail stanchion, and the rear driving axle centre-point is inside the line of the luggage door.

 

Doing some digging, I found the following prototype photographs which may help us:

image.png.13838d11f7a05304f2d234d66915cfa0.png

snippet from 'Southern Electric: Vol 1' showing an ex-SECR bodied trailer third nee-composite (right) and ex-LBSCR unit (left) circa 1952

 

image.png.e1fef1a7b6f73faccab66666fc64db50.png

snippet from 'Southern Electric: Vol 2' showing an ex-SECR bodied DMBT circa 1950*

 

* Interestingly, 4492 was one of the batch of 3-car suburban units that was augmented with a steel trailer unit, but in the full version of the above picture, it shows history repeating itself with another ex-SECR trailer unit subbed in.

 

Clearly, these coaches have the rounded panelling. It is more difficult to establish the relationship of the guard/luggage compartment, but it would appear that the centre-line of the bogie is below the rear rail stanchion, and the panelling to the right of the luggage door matches the design in the King drawing (note: this side of the vehicle doesn't have a lookout, just a flush panel).

 

I am not sure what happened with the Golding drawing - there was a point that bogies were replaced on these units, which may explain that - but the strangeness around the lookout panel is something new to me. I have ordered the full set of Mike King drawings, so I hope that clarifies

Edited by Lacathedrale

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Compound2632
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The Mike King drawing shows the SECR's "LNWR style" panelling, with quarter-lights let into a single large panel. The Brian Goulding drawing shows the more conventional panelling style, with separate waist and eves panels, characteristic of LBSCR and LSWR carriages, though there were detail differences in dimensions between the panelling used by the two companies. 

Edited by Compound2632
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Nearholmer

The photo of 1421 here is interesting http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/3car_SubUnits04.html 

 

I think it shows ‘LNWR’ panelling, a ducket, and a short van section.

 

There is also a photo of 1404 in the edition of Moody’s ‘Southern Electric’ that I have, which, so far as I can make-out, shows the same.

 

The photo taken at Orpington car sheds here, again so far as an imperfect photo permits, also seems to show the same https://www.wikiwand.com/en/SR_class_3Sub

 

But, were there differences according to the age/type of coach that was converted to become an EMU car, even within those of SECR origin?

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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Guy Rixon

The Golding drawing also has vent hoods for the doors that are squarer than the ex-SER style. It's a little like what would happen if ex-LCDR coaches were converted to EMUs. Was that ever done?

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Compound2632
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1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

But, were there differences according to the age/type of coach that was converted to become an EMU car, even within those of SECR origin?

 

As far as I'm aware, all SECR-built carriages had the same LNWR style panelling, inheriting it from the SER which had adopted it in the 1890s.

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Nearholmer

Photo of 1491 in "Southern railway Miscellany", again appears to show "LNWR panelling".

 

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Railway Gazette special edition for the completion of the Eastern Suburban electrification, although its not one I've got, and most such editions contained good GAs of the stock. The Engineer describes the new-build stock of 1925 for bothe Western and Eastern sections, with (very soot and whitewash) photos, but skates over the conversions in a paragraph and provides no illustration ......... nobody boasted about recycling in 1925, it was a subject of minor shame it would seem!

Edited by Nearholmer
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