Brassey's Blog

Coincidentally, http://www.gwr.org.uk/armstrong-goods.html

 

4 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Coincidentally, http://www.gwr.org.uk/armstrong-goods.html

 

 

Thanks Miss P. A lot of belpaires there.  I prefer a roundtop myself on these.  Note the Armstrong smokebox door.  Bigger and less dished than the Dean:

 

 

 

Aha, more goodies to follow!

 

6 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Coincidentally, http://www.gwr.org.uk/armstrong-goods.html

 

 

Very nice, I like the informative captions. I now have to ask a question that has been a bit foggy in my mind: Is there a relationship between superheating and chimney position? 

 

1 hour ago, Brassey said:

 

Thanks Miss P. A lot of belpaires there.  I prefer a roundtop myself on these.  Note the Armstrong smokebox door.  Bigger and less dished than the Dean:

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting that, I first saw it some time ago and decided that if I were ever to build a diorama, this would be it! But I've forgotten where the photo is featured (ie what source). Any hints?

 

Edited January 3 by Mikkel

38 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Thanks for posting that, I first saw it some time ago and decided that if I were ever to build a diorama, this would be it! But I've forgotten where the photo is featured (ie what source). Any hints?

 

It's given in a couple of views on the Warwickshire railways site:

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls2086.htm

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls2086b.htm

 

I sent Mike Musson a note a long time ago advising that the loco was not 'a Dean Goods', so maybe I need to remind him.

 

Quote

I now have to ask a question that has been a bit foggy in my mind: Is there a relationship between superheating and chimney position? 

 

Generally yes, but it's deceptive. Chimney to the rear of the smokebox = saturated. chimney to the front of a smokebox = superheated. (The forward position was necessary for the blastpipe exhaust to clear the superheater headers.)

 

However, as I pointed out on the gwr.org panniers page, a forward position doesn't mean that superheater elements are present or have ever been present. The Collett panniers had chimneys in the forward position, but none of them were ever superheated.

 

Edited January 3 by Miss Prism

16 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Aha, more goodies to follow!

 

 

Very nice, I like the informative captions. I now have to ask a question that has been a bit foggy in my mind: Is there a relationship between superheating and chimney position? 

 

 

Thanks for posting that, I first saw it some time ago and decided that if I were ever to build a diorama, this would be it! But I've forgotten where the photo is featured (ie what source). Any hints?

 

I think it is the replacement of the bridge across Clement St/High St/Old Warwick Road in Leamington Spa.

Duncan

1 hour ago, Brassey said:

Thanks Miss P. A lot of belpaires there.  I prefer a roundtop myself on these.  Note the Armstrong smokebox door.  Bigger and less dished than the Dean:

 

If I had more roundtop pics, I would have included some. I was surprised, and had remarked to Mikkel earlier in a PM, on how early the Armstrong Goods started to get Belpaires.

 

Thanks for pointing out the style of the Armstrong smokebox door - I hadn't noticed that before. It seems the locos, or most of them, got Dean doors at a very early stage.

 

 

Edited January 3 by Miss Prism

Many thanks Miss P, for the links and answer to my question. The complications of the chimney position and superheating is illustrated on the Pannier Tank intro page on gwr.org.uk, but the general principle does not seem to be stated directly, so I had been wondering about it. I suppose it is also discussed somewhere in the RCTS survey, just haven't found it yet.

 

 

I probably need to do a sketch to illustrate it. Not sure that RCTS does explain it. Collett retain the S-shaped blastpipes for the saturated locos afaik.

 

I can't remember where I get every pictures but that one has some Photoshop work.  Here's another roundtop; 406 from the same lot but with an S2 boiler.  Loverly tender:

 

5 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Thanks for pointing out the style of the Armstrong smokebox door - I hadn't noticed that before. It seems the locos, or most of them, got Dean doors at a very early stage.

 

 

I only became aware because the Broad Gauge Society sell a casting which is on same sprue as a Dean smoke box door.  They were obviously more prevalent in broad gauge days.

Nice to see a traditionally-built Armstrong Goods model.  I have a brass + 3D printed model, described in my blog, where I also show a selection of photos of 'round-top' boiler engines that may be of interest. 

 

Comparing photos shows how the locations of many fittings, such as injectors, varied between individual engines and, of course, there were many boiler changes over the years.  Some were even fitted with extended axles and wheels outside the frames, for use on the broad gauge.

 

Mike

Nice to see one of these old kits being built, lovely work out of what are more an aid to scratch building at times! 

 

This one at Craven Arms on the LNWR/GWR North to South joint Line:

 

Hmmm - I'm suddenly noticing a lot of Armstrong smokebox doors on 850s and 2101s (the latter not being Armstrong at all). The difference in size between the Armstrong door and a dinky Dean one is remarkable.

 

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Hmmm - I'm suddenly noticing a lot of Armstrong smokebox doors on 850s and 2101s (the latter not being Armstrong at all). The difference in size between the Armstrong door and a dinky Dean one is remarkable.

 

 

my No. 334 will also have an Armstrong door (I bought two from the Broad Gauge Society stand a few years back at Scaleforum ostensibly for the Dean door which is on the same casting).  I also have in my stash probably dating back to the 70's, a number of turned brass doors that are labelled Armstrong.  That's how I became aware there was  a difference.

 

3 hours ago, Brassey said:

 

my No. 334 will also have an Armstrong door (I bought two from the Broad Gauge Society stand a few years back at Scaleforum ostensibly for the Dean door which is on the same casting).  I also have in my stash probably dating back to the 70's, a number of turned brass doors that are labelled Armstrong.  That's how I became aware there was  a difference.

 

I wish that bridge was still there. Can you imagine the great shots which would be possible ?

On 03/01/2021 at 15:26, Brassey said:

A lot of belpaires there.  I prefer a roundtop myself on these.  Note the Armstrong smokebox door.  Bigger and less dished than the Dean

 

Yes, to my eyes the B4 boiler with its monstrous dome casing well back does even less for these engines than it does for the Dean Goods.

I've only recently noticed, but on all these loco pictured here, (from the same era) the front buffer beam extends above the running plate.  None of the kits I have provide for this option unless I am mistaken.

 

Does anyone know?

On the Beyer Goods, yes, but not on the Armstrong Goods.

11 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

On the Beyer Goods, yes, but not on the Armstrong Goods.

 

Possibly right.  I might be mistaking the front lamp for the bufferbeam.  Eitherway, I'm not changing it now.

 

No 453 at Craven Arms circa 1910:

 

I think what may have happened is a replacement of the buffer beams on the Beyer Goods (to a more normal arrangement) when the wheels were bumped up to 5'2".