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GWR Dia. U9 1st & 2nd Class Composite 6 wheel Carriage, that turns out to be a U14!


wenlock

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Well it's been a long time coming, but I've finally completed building another coach!  I finished the V9 back in November, so this one's construction has hardly been at a lightning pace:rolleyes:  The build follows more or less exactly the same methods as the V9, but with the added faff of having to detail the interior of the compartments.  I used seat mouldings from Slater's Plastikard and plan to add some scratch built picture frames and mirrors along with a few Edwardian passengers, once the painting has been completed:)

 

Kit components 1

IMG_4071a.jpg

 

Kit components 2

IMG_4072a.jpg.c98c02e38ba175a5029effb51b96f77d.jpg

 

I'm not sure how old the kit is, the brass was pretty heavily oxidised, but it all cleaned up without any problems using a fiberglass scratch brush.

 

Assembled Coach 1

IMG_4241a.jpg.e3dc7c7d1a0fdcfbf4191c216327fec5.jpg

 

Assembled Coach 2

IMG_4244a.jpg.03cac7820c35cc83180811f25a4b71f8.jpg

 

A bit of fiddling was needed to get the ride height of the two coaches the same, but nothing a bit of judicious filling of the subframes containing the wheel sets wouldn't sort out!  

 

Dia.V9 Passenger Brake Van and Dia. U9 Composite

IMG_4252a.jpg.4a1d93ccfb7c9d42f6ec946011a5141b.jpg

 

Now that they are built I'm pleased with them and once painted they should look the part when combined with a couple of bogie clerestories.  I'll ty and get the painting done over the next month or so, but life has a way of adding distractions to modelling plans!

 

Until next time:)

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

Edited by wenlock
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Very nice Dave, but are you sure it’s a U9? I seem to remember that the drawing on Penhros’s wonderful site shows a flat end with no tumble home…

Duncan

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32 minutes ago, NeilHB said:

Lovely work Dave. 

Thanks Neil!

 

30 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Very nice Dave, but are you sure it’s a U9? I seem to remember that the drawing on Penhros’s wonderful site shows a flat end with no tumble home…

Duncan

Well that's what it says on the box, but I'm happy to be told otherwise:)

 

30 minutes ago, drduncan said:

And is this a train for that River class…

D

Yes indeed that's the plan!  I've promised myself that I'll finish these coaches before I start on the River, just need to paint these and finish off the Slater's Clerestory and then it's "River" time:D

 

19 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

They'll add some splendid play value.

Thanks Al, hopefully all done in time for the Uckfield show:)

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Very nice Dave.

31 minutes ago, wenlock said:

Thanks Al, hopefully all done in time for the Uckfield show:)

Uckfield 2021?? I should be there with Modbury :)

Ian

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1 hour ago, drduncan said:

Very nice Dave, but are you sure it’s a U9? I seem to remember that the drawing on Penhros’s wonderful site shows a flat end with no tumble home…

Duncan

It seems to me as someone who claims not to know much about Great Western things but does claim to know about carriages generically, that, given the equal-sized panels between the compartments, it's an all-first, or at least was built as such. Reference to Penrhos does suggest that if it's 28 ft over the body, it's an R1 - 8 built in 1875 - (but was a 4-wheeler) or if 29 ft, the rather more numerous R2, 110 built 1871-4, as 6-wheelers. A few of both diagrams were converted to composites - R1 to U7 and U8 but rather fleetingly - a bit of quantum fluctuation perhaps? and R2 to U14. 

 

What are the sticky-out things on the ends of both carriages?

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drduncan

Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

What are the sticky-out things on the ends of both carriages?

I think they might be lamp irons. They might be the Churchward pattern rather than Dean ones (going on the 4mm etches displayed on the Frogmore confederacy web page). 

D

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10 minutes ago, drduncan said:

 

I think they might be lamp irons. They might be the Churchward pattern rather than Dean ones (going on the 4mm etches displayed on the Frogmore confederacy web page). 

D

They are indeed supposed to be lamp irons, but if they are Churchward pattern then they are going to have to go!

 

BW

 

Dave

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2 hours ago, Ian Smith said:

Very nice Dave.

Uckfield 2021?? I should be there with Modbury :)

Ian

Excellent! I’ll finally get to see Modbury:) Looking forward to having a chat about all thing Great Western!
 

BW

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

It seems to me as someone who claims not to know much about Great Western things but does claim to know about carriages generically, that, given the equal-sized panels between the compartments, it's an all-first, or at least was built as such. Reference to Penrhos does suggest that if it's 28 ft over the body, it's an R1 - 8 built in 1875 - (but was a 4-wheeler) or if 29 ft, the rather more numerous R2, 110 built 1871-4, as 6-wheelers. A few of both diagrams were converted to composites - R1 to U7 and U8 but rather fleetingly - a bit of quantum fluctuation perhaps? and R2 to U14. 

 

What are the sticky-out things on the ends of both carriages?

I’ll do some measuring regarding the length, but I agree the equal sized panels between the compartments do indicate an all first as built.  The kit states that it’s a first/second composite that was later changed to a first/third, but doesn’t mention where the information came from!
 

BW

 

Dave

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Richard (aka Penrhos) does a coach recognition service via his website. Maybe upload an image of the side for his opinion?

D

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Nice work so far Dave, may I ask who's kits they are please ? 

 

G

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Curiously, I see that Taff Vale Models do what they say is an R2 as well as this what they say is a U9 and from the rather small photos on the website I am struggling to spot any difference.

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Welcome back Dave! Look forward to catching up at Uckfield!

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5 minutes ago, Tricky said:

Uckfield!

 

It's evidently going to be the place to be!

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2 hours ago, bgman said:

Nice work so far Dave, may I ask who's kits they are please ? 

 

G

Hi Grahame they are from the “Taff Vale Models” that Stephen mentions in the next post.  Reasonable kits for the money, but the corners are simple butt fit and awkward to hold in position while soldering:rolleyes: The drop lights are also a bit of a pain in that they are etched more or less exactly the same size as the window apertures, so there’s little to solder onto!
 

BW

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Curiously, I see that Taff Vale Models do what they say is an R2 as well as this what they say is a U9 and from the rather small photos on the website I am struggling to spot any difference.

Me too!  Although the instructions in the kit call mine a U9:)

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1 hour ago, Tricky said:

Welcome back Dave! Look forward to catching up at Uckfield!

Yes it has been a while! Looking forward to seeing you again!:)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's evidently going to be the place to be!

It sure is, I hope to see you there too!:)

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4 hours ago, wenlock said:

They are indeed supposed to be lamp irons, but if they are Churchward pattern then they are going to have to go!

 

BW

 

Dave

 

Reminds me of when I was showing my S&D 6-wheelers to a non-railway modeller. He was impressed with the all-brass construction, then rubbed his finger over part and said "you could get that bit of rough solder off with a scalpel!"

 

"That's not solder, that's a lamp iron!"

 

:sarcastic:

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It looks great whatever diagram it is - I suspect R2.  The trouble with brass models is they look too good to paint :)

 

Mike

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On 09/07/2021 at 21:20, Compound2632 said:

Curiously, I see that Taff Vale Models do what they say is an R2 as well as this what they say is a U9 and from the rather small photos on the website I am struggling to spot any difference.

 

It’s all in the compartment sizes.  U9 had a pair of 6’6 compartments and a pair of 7’ compartments, give or take a fraction of an inch.  The R2 was 1’ longer with four 7’ compartments.  R2s can easily be distinguished as the 3 panels between compartments are the same size.

 

http://penrhos.me.uk/Rdiags.shtml#R2

 

http://penrhos.me.uk/Udiags.shtml#U9

 

The later R2s had turn-under ends which makes soldering the butt joints even harder!

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12 minutes ago, Penrhos1920 said:

It’s all in the compartment sizes.  U9 had a pair of 6’6 compartments and a pair of 7’ compartments, give or take a fraction of an inch.  The R2 was 1’ longer with four 7’ compartments.  R2s can easily be distinguished as the 3 panels between compartments are the same size.

 

Yes indeed, it was the apparently equal-sized panels that lead me to doubt the model is a composite.

 

13 minutes ago, Penrhos1920 said:

The later R2s had turn-under ends which makes soldering the butt joints even harder!

 

So you imply that the same diagram covered flat end and turn-under-ended carriages of the same basic dimensions - which is reasonable enough. The diagram book was introduced for the convenience of the operating department, not future modellers! But any idea which lots?

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2 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

It’s all in the compartment sizes.  U9 had a pair of 6’6 compartments and a pair of 7’ compartments, give or take a fraction of an inch.  The R2 was 1’ longer with four 7’ compartments.  R2s can easily be distinguished as the 3 panels between compartments are the same size.

 

http://penrhos.me.uk/Rdiags.shtml#R2

 

http://penrhos.me.uk/Udiags.shtml#U9

 

The later R2s had turn-under ends which makes soldering the butt joints even harder!

That’s all really useful information!  My coach definitely has turned under ends, and the 3 panels are the same size, so it looks like I’ve built an R2 rather than the U9 that the label says on the box:rolleyes:

 

BW

 

Dave

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