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GWR Dia. U9 1st & 2nd Class Composite 6 wheel Carriage, that turns out to be a U14!


wenlock

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Well it's been a long time coming, but I've finally completed building another coach!  I finished the V9 back in November, so this one's construction has hardly been at a lightning pace:rolleyes:  The build follows more or less exactly the same methods as the V9, but with the added faff of having to detail the interior of the compartments.  I used seat mouldings from Slater's Plastikard and plan to add some scratch built picture frames and mirrors along with a few Edwardian passengers, once the painting has been completed:)

 

Kit components 1

IMG_4071a.jpg

 

Kit components 2

IMG_4072a.jpg.c98c02e38ba175a5029effb51b96f77d.jpg

 

I'm not sure how old the kit is, the brass was pretty heavily oxidised, but it all cleaned up without any problems using a fiberglass scratch brush.

 

Assembled Coach 1

IMG_4241a.jpg.e3dc7c7d1a0fdcfbf4191c216327fec5.jpg

 

Assembled Coach 2

IMG_4244a.jpg.03cac7820c35cc83180811f25a4b71f8.jpg

 

A bit of fiddling was needed to get the ride height of the two coaches the same, but nothing a bit of judicious filling of the subframes containing the wheel sets wouldn't sort out!  

 

Dia.V9 Passenger Brake Van and Dia. U9 Composite

IMG_4252a.jpg.4a1d93ccfb7c9d42f6ec946011a5141b.jpg

 

Now that they are built I'm pleased with them and once painted they should look the part when combined with a couple of bogie clerestories.  I'll ty and get the painting done over the next month or so, but life has a way of adding distractions to modelling plans!

 

Until next time:)

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

Edited by wenlock
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  • RMweb Gold

 My proposed rake of coaches that will be pulled by my River class once I’ve built it will comprise as follows…

V9 passenger brake van

C10 all third bogie clerestory 

What I thought was a U9 1/2 composite,  but turns out to be an R2 all 1st

D34 all 3rd bogie clerestory brake.

 

This begs the question that I hope someone can answer for me!

 

As what I thought was a 1st/2nd composite turns out to be an all 1st, do I need to build a coach with some second class accommodation?  Or did some trains run with only 1st and 3rd class coaches during the Edwardian era?
 

BW

 

Dave

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If before 1912, then I'm afraid you do need some second class accommodation.

 

One thing to consider is the proportion of each class. I've looked at this a bit for the Midland and LNWR but not GWR. On suburban services in the Birmingham area, the Midland had around 20% (1883) to 25% (1908) first class compartments and the LNWR about equal numbers of first, second, and third compartments (1900); that's probably too high a proportion of the higher classes for a country branch line - on the Gloucester loop out through Evesham the Midland provided 17% first class compartments (1909). Your two bogies provide 12 thirds, so as it stands you've got 25% firsts, which looks reasonable if it weren't for the lack of second. The E37 composite has two firsts, three seconds, and two thirds; with just the two third class bogies that gives 10% first and 16 % second, i.e. 26 % of the upper classes. 

 

If I were a first class passenger on the through train to Sherton Abbas in 1905/6 I think I would be writing to Paddington to complain about being obliged to travel in a four-wheeled antique from the 1870s when third class passengers were being provided with modern (mid-90s) bogie carriages.

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10 hours ago, wenlock said:

That’s all really useful information!  My coach definitely has turned under ends, and the 3 panels are the same size, so it looks like I’ve built an R2 rather than the U9 that the label says on the box:rolleyes:

 

BW

 

Dave

 

Bovvered ? 

When its painted only you will know ( and maybe the 104 following this thread ! ) :D

Either way I am sure that they will look excellent.

 

BW 

 

G

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Ah but a couple of R2s were converted to composites just before the turn of the century, diagram U14.  The conversion probably involved changing the end compartments to 2nd class, later 3rds.

 

U14 running numbers were 52, 60, 199, 208, 209, 217, 625, 626 before 1907.  Add 6000 after 1907.

 

 The GWR started getting rid of 2nd class around 1908 when it realised that most people who wanted better than 3rd class could afford 1st class.

Edited by Penrhos1920
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45 minutes ago, Regularity said:

R2?

What would be a D2, to run next to it?

 

A rather nice 40 ft bogie clerestory centre-brake third of early 1880s vintage - built as broad gauge convertibles. It would make rather a nice branch train ensemble! 

 

Rather better than a 46 ft clerestory bogie third coupled up to some trader's wagon...

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6 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

Ah but a couple of R2s were converted to composites just before the turn of the century, diagram U14.  The conversion probably involved changing the end compartments to 2nd class, later 3rds.

 

 The GWR started getting rid of 2nd class around 1908 when it realised that most people who wanted better than 3rd class could afford 1st class.

Ooo tell me more! Any idea which numbers the couple had that were converted into composites? A little strategic numbering will stop me having to build another coach and let me get on with building the River class!:)

 

BW

 

Dave

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  • RMweb Gold
6 hours ago, Regularity said:

R2?

What would be a D2, to run next to it?

”May the force be with you!”

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54 minutes ago, wenlock said:

Ooo tell me more! Any idea which numbers the couple had that were converted into composites? A little strategic numbering will stop me having to build another coach and let me get on with building the River class!:)

 

http://www.penrhos.me.uk/Udiags.shtml

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  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Excellent!  I’ve just had a read though and rather than just a couple there were actually 8 carriages converted from R2’s to U14’s:)

 

So in the space of a weekend I’ve gone from modelling a U9, to an R2 and now a U14! That’s got to beat watching football :D

 

Thanks for all the advice chaps!
 

BW

 

Dave

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U14 it is!   Anything is better than watching penalty shoot-outs.

 

 

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  • RMweb Gold
1 minute ago, MikeOxon said:

U14 it is!   Anything is better than watching penalty shoot-outs.

 

 

Couldn’t agree more!

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  • RMweb Gold

Actually Dave, I think that's a U12.

 

No, only joking. The coaches look wonderful!  I very much like the U14 solution, being an example of how the class designations of some 4- and 6- wheelers were modified over time, and in model terms also quite unique compared to the R2s (of which there was a Blacksmith kit - one even ran at Farthing at one time).  

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2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Actually Dave, I think that's a U12.

 

No, only joking. The coaches look wonderful!  I very much like the U14 solution, being an example of how the class designations of some 4- and 6- wheelers were modified over time, and in model terms also quite unique compared to the R2s (of which there was a Blacksmith kit - one even ran at Farthing at one time).  

Thanks Mikkel!  I'm just relieved that I don't need to build another coach before I can make a start on the River class:)

 

This site http://www.penrhos.me.uk/index.shtml is such a wonderful resource of information, I've learned so much over the last couple of days!

 

BW

 

Dave

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  • RMweb Gold

U-this, U-that.
Das Boot, anyone?

(I will not follow with jokes about U2.)

 

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7 minutes ago, Regularity said:

U-this, U-that.
Das Boot, anyone?

(I will not follow with jokes about U2.)

 

 

Dave's carriage building really has "the edge" over everyone else's.

 

(Oh and Das Boot season 2's on now, it's very good!)

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5 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Dave's carriage building really has "the edge" over everyone else's.

 

I'm relieved that we've established I've built a Composite, or it would be a case of  "I still haven't found what I'm looking for!" :)

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  • RMweb Gold
7 hours ago, wenlock said:

I'm relieved that we've established I've built a Composite, or it would be a case of  "I still haven't found what I'm looking for!" :)

Crack on with it, to get it finished by if not Christmas, the New Year’s Day.

Oh Boy, this could go on!

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21 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Crack on with it, to get it finished by if not Christmas, the New Year’s Day.

 

Uxbridge?

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Julian here from Taff Vale Models.  I've been reading this thread with interest. Those kit builds are superb and I look forward to seeing the painted models. I would like to mention that the length of the model from the U9 kit we sell is, as it should be, approximately a scale foot shorter than that of the R2 from the same range and is not a case of "creative" marketing :). I also agree that the photo's on the website are not clear, this is something I am slowly addressing across the range within our online shop.

Having said that, I feel that the profile error on the existing U9 etch is unacceptable and with that in mind the kit will be withdrawn from sale in its current form. In order to address this in the longer term, I am in the process of drawing up a new version 7mm/ft. kit for this type and may well release a 4mm/ft. version too if there is interest.  Just to prove it, here is one of the new coach sides I am working on:image.png.30c9143158d8845cb7814a8f4841cc19.png

 

I'll be making changes to the chassis design, lamp irons and other details as the kit develops. So I don't hijack this thread, I'll start a new one on this subject once I have something on my workbench. I have had a request for a U10 as well so currently mulling that over.  Morgantown Crecent!

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On 12/07/2021 at 11:09, Barry Ten said:

 

Dave's carriage building really has "the edge" over everyone else's.

 

(Oh and Das Boot season 2's on now, it's very good!)

We really need the groan button…

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19 hours ago, blenny said:

Julian here from Taff Vale Models.  I've been reading this thread with interest. Those kit builds are superb and I look forward to seeing the painted models. I would like to mention that the length of the model from the U9 kit we sell is, as it should be, approximately a scale foot shorter than that of the R2 from the same range and is not a case of "creative" marketing :). I also agree that the photo's on the website are not clear, this is something I am slowly addressing across the range within our online shop.

Having said that, I feel that the profile error on the existing U9 etch is unacceptable and with that in mind the kit will be withdrawn from sale in its current form. In order to address this in the longer term, I am in the process of drawing up a new version 7mm/ft. kit for this type and may well release a 4mm/ft. version too if there is interest.  Just to prove it, here is one of the new coach sides I am working on:image.png.30c9143158d8845cb7814a8f4841cc19.png

 

I'll be making changes to the chassis design, lamp irons and other details as the kit develops. So I don't hijack this thread, I'll start a new one on this subject once I have something on my workbench. I have had a request for a U10 as well so currently mulling that over.  Morgantown Crecent!

As I recall from Richard’s splendid site a U10 is identical to a U9 with flat ends but with a clerestory roof. It stuck in my mind as a good candidate for CAD as I’d get two coaches for only a bit more work than for one - and then I got seduced by the power of the Broad Gauge (at least for a little bit).  
 

For Regularity: I’m working on a D2 to go with my Blacksmith R2 kit…

 

Duncan 

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  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, drduncan said:

We really need the groan button…

I agreed via an icon, but I had had that thought myself, and read your post thinking, ah, “You, too”…

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