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Powsides/Slaters Private Owner wagons


Mikkel

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I wanted some Private Owners for Farthing, so have built a couple of Powsides kits, i.e. painted and pre-lettered Slaters kits. I opted for two Gloucester designs to RCH 1887 specifications, one a 5-plank side-door wagon, the other a 7-plank side- and end-door job. 

 

 

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I like the overall appearance, although TBH the small lettering isn’t quite up to current standards. Perhaps I was unlucky, they look fine on the website.

 

 

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The kits have blank interior sides, so the moulding pips were filed away and planking was indicated with a scriber.

 

 

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The instructions recommend joining all sides first, then mounting the floor inside. I struggled a bit with this, the floor wasn’t a perfect fit and the sides were lightly curved. Some dismantling and remedial work ensued, but I got there in the end.

 

 

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I used waisted pin-point bearings from MJT. Split spoke wheels on one wagon, and plain spokes for the other one because I ran out. Did some of these wagons eventually receive plain spoke wheels? Otherwise I’ll swop the erroneous set later.

 

 

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Some of the small lettering was a bit damaged or missing as the kits came. I touched it up as best I could. Some bits I simply painted over. I’d rather have absent lettering than odd lettering.

 

 

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The built-up wagons. 

 

 

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Having admired Dave’s lovely builds of the 7mm versions of these kits, I decided to indicate the interior ironwork as he has done. For this I simply used strips of Evergreen (painted darker after this shot).

 

 

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Good interior photos of these wagons are rare, so drawing on discussion by Stephen and other helpful RMwebbers I drew up the above sketch to guide my detailing of the interior. Please note that this is my own rough and ready rendering. There are various unknowns and no one has “signed off” on this sketch. Anyone interested should consult Stephen’s drawing and info here.

 

 

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Interior ironwork in place. The kit does include a hinge for the end door. On some wagon types this was positioned above the top plank, but in this case I fitted it just behind the top plank, based on this discussion.

 

 


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Archer’s rivet transfers at the fixed ends.

 

 

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Stephen pointed out the “big nuts” that appear on the ends of many Gloucester wagons, extending from the diagonal irons inside. Looking at photos they seem to have been present on both 5-, 6- and 7-planks as seen here left to right (obviously only at fixed ends). 

 

 

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The nuts don’t feature in the kit, so I added them. On the 7-planker I drilled holes and stuck in bits of brass. This proved tricky as it’s just by the corner joins, so on the 5-planker I Mek-Pak’ed on bits of plastic rod instead, as seen above.

 

 

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As usual: Liquid Gravity and 3mm Sprat & Winkles. I'm always amazed how much difference weight makes to the "feel" of a wagon. The couplings too: Ugly they may be, but they turn it into a working vehicle.

 

 

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Weathering the interior with pigments. The “Sinai Dust” seen here is courtesy of the late Mick Bonwick. Thank you, Mick.

 

 

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The Ayres wagon. Phil Parker uses a fibre glass brush to fade the lettering on printed RTR wagons. But these are transfers, so would tear (I did try).  Instead I lightly dry-brushed base colour over the lettering. Helps a bit, but not quite as effective. 

 

 

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C&G Ayres still exist as a well-known Reading removal company and former GWR cartage agent. This (very) close crop shows one of their removal containers at Reading ca. 1905. 

 

 

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But a search of the British Newspaper Archive showed that C&G Ayres were also at one time coal traders [Source: Reading Mercury Oxford Gazette March 9, 1918]. So I need to decide whether to designate the Ayres wagon for coal or furniture. I wonder if this explains the difference between the red Powsides livery and the green wagon livery that I normally associate the company with.

 

 

 

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The Weedon wagon. You can just make out the nuts on the ends, but they aren't really noticeable. The effort would arguably have been better spent detailing the brake gear!

 

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I had assumed the Weedon Brothers were mainly coal and coke merchants, but again newspapers and directories of the time offered further info. [Source: Kelly's Directory of Berks, Bucks & Oxon, 1911]. It seems that manure was also a key aspect of their business. The company features on the right in this directory clipping - amongst lime burners, loan offices, lunatic asylums and other essentials of progress!

 

 

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Though based at Goring, the Weedon Brothers had stores in a number of places, as illustrated in the above 1889 advert. I’m inclined to designate the wagon for manure rather than coal. I wonder what that would mean for the weathering? Richard's latest book on Wiltshire Private Owners is firmly on my wishlist.

 

 

 

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Anyway, the wagons are now running at Farthing. Here's No. 1897 knocking them about in the sidings behind the stables.

 

 

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Overall I've enjoyed the build. May have a go at applying my own transfers next time. 

 

 

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It's just a couple of plastic wagons of course, but I learnt a lot along the way. That's one of the great things about modelling, every build is an entry point to railway history.  Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

Edited by Mikkel

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"That's one of the great things about modelling, every build is an entry point to railway history. " ... and that's my thinking, too :)

 

There's so much to learn about how things were done from a simple open wagon.  Even things like standardised nuts and bolts that we now take for granted took a while to evolve.

 

 

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On 29/09/2021 at 14:15, ChrisN said:

Mikkel,

Interesting build, and well thought out and accomplished as usual.

 

I will have some POW sides on my Christmas list so this is timely.  I will probably stop at number two on your list and the discussion about the transfers is also interesting.

 

Thank you Chris. May all your wishes come true. 

 

It would be nice if the Slater's kits were upgraded to show interior ironwork, although from a business perspective I suppose it's not worth the investment. Looking for a free lunch I had a browse to see what the RTR scene is like when it comes to interior ironwork. It seems to be a bit halfway house in most cases, as per this Oxford Rail example. Nice print though.

 image.png.58608366cfd7a17e340308ad68de2da0.png

Source: Hattons

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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

"That's one of the great things about modelling, every build is an entry point to railway history. " ... and that's my thinking, too :)

 

There's so much to learn about how things were done from a simple open wagon.  Even things like standardised nuts and bolts that we now take for granted took a while to evolve.

 

On the subject of nuts and bolts, I came across this photo. Apart from the general delight of the scene: If you enlarge it (or click here), it's a good clear photo of the nuts (or whatever the term would be) that extend at the ends from the interior diagonals. Again there seem to be variants of this.

 

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Source: Getty images, embedding permitted. Large image.

 

 

 

Edited by Mikkel
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You mentioned nuts.  I did a test build of a DD3 tank wagon in 4mm for Taff Vale Models and made one or two additions including nuts on the end of the diagonal braces.  I used 16BA nuts.  I have attached a picture and leave you to judge their suitability.  The diagonal brace is 0.5mm nickel silver rod so the nut slips easily over th end, held with a minute dab of glue.  There should be two but my supply of nuts is low so I economised.  The second, lock nut, would have been thinner, so just file it down.

 

Unfortunately, 16BA nuts are like hens' teeth at the moment but when they become available again, would someone please let me know??  :)

 

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Edited by davidbr
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26 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

Thank you Chris. May all your wishes come true. 

 

It would be nice if the Slater's kits were upgraded to show interior ironwork, although from a business perspective I suppose it's not worth the investment. Looking for a free lunch I had a browse to see what the RTR scene is like when it comes to interior ironwork. It seems to be a bit halfway house in most cases, as per this Oxford Rail example. Nice print though.

 image.png.58608366cfd7a17e340308ad68de2da0.png

Source: Hattons

 

Mikkel,

I assume that wagon is far too late for us.  The Wrexham coalfields supplied coal to mid-Wales so I could get a free lunch as well.

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36 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Mikkel,

I assume that wagon is far too late for us.  The Wrexham coalfields supplied coal to mid-Wales so I could get a free lunch as well.

 

'Fraid so, it's an RCH 1923 specification standard design with such un-1895 profligacies as oil axleboxes and both-side brakes. Moreover, despite Oxford putting the livery of a 10 ton wagon on it, it's a 12 ton wagon. One of my bugbears. The really big lettering isn't quite the thing either. Have you got a copy of Mike Lloyd's Private Owners on the Cambrian (WRRC, 1998)? That shows that as well as the Wrexham coal field, a lot of coal coming onto the Cambrian was from the North Staffordshire coalfield.

 

For 1895, you'll be wanting a goodly proportion of dumb buffer private owner wagons - you're only a quarter of a mineral wagon's lifetime after the introduction of the RCH 1887 specification which required sprung buffers for new construction.

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ChrisN

Posted (edited)

45 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

'Fraid so, it's an RCH 1923 specification standard design with such un-1895 profligacies as oil axleboxes and both-side brakes. Moreover, despite Oxford putting the livery of a 10 ton wagon on it, it's a 12 ton wagon. One of my bugbears. The really big lettering isn't quite the thing either. Have you got a copy of Mike Lloyd's Private Owners on the Cambrian (WRRC, 1998)? That shows that as well as the Wrexham coal field, a lot of coal coming onto the Cambrian was from the North Staffordshire coalfield.

 

For 1895, you'll be wanting a goodly proportion of dumb buffer private owner wagons - you're only a quarter of a mineral wagon's lifetime after the introduction of the RCH 1887 specification which required sprung buffers for new construction.

 

Stephen,

Thought so.  I do have a copy of Mike Lloyds book and I was going to check it.  I have been through the book and POW sides and matched photos and kits, plus one from, er Bracknell.

 

I do have some 5&9 dumb buffered wagons, which I know are the wrong area but I am sure will fit in.

Edited by ChrisN
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1 hour ago, ChrisN said:

plus one from, er Bracknell.

 

I shall be interested in the rationale for that one! Bracknell is not famous for its collieries.

 

2 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I do have some 5&9 dumb buffered wagons, which I know are the wrong area but I am sure will fit in.

 

The 5&9 wagons do very well as generic dumb buffer wagons - you can give them appropriate local / Wrexham / North Staffs liveries. Since there is very little photographic evidence for the exact appearance of specific dumb buffered wagons, the world is your dumb-buffered oyster.

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23 hours ago, davidbr said:

You mentioned nuts.  I did a test build of a DD3 tank wagon in 4mm for Taff Vale Models and made one or two additions including nuts on the end of the diagonal braces.  I used 16BA nuts.  I have attached a picture and leave you to judge their suitability.  The diagonal brace is 0.5mm nickel silver rod so the nut slips easily over th end, held with a minute dab of glue.  There should be two but my supply of nuts is low so I economised.  The second, lock nut, would have been thinner, so just file it down.

 

Unfortunately, 16BA nuts are like hens' teeth at the moment but when they become available again, would someone please let me know??  :)

 

Diag-bolts_C9162.jpg.9abe92551eec654856b62a979ed3d99d.jpg

 

That's impressive Dave, and a good illustration of the principle too. Thanks.

 

Perhaps the 16BA Nuts are stuck somewhere in the Malacca Strait. 

 

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23 hours ago, kitpw said:

....and in the midst of this rather brutal tipping installation stands a delicate and elegant gas lamp standard more suited to a passenger platform.  Amazing clarity in these Getty pictures of the docks.

 

Kit PW

Swan Hill - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/blog/2502-swan-hill/

 

Yes, the detail and sharpness is spectacular. Some seem to be part of a set/collection, but details of the photographer(s) are scarce.

 

The wagons in these photos seem surprisingly clean, e.g. in the image below. I suppose it could be that the coal dust and dirt does not show up in photos. Sometimes my weathered stock appears cleaner in photos than in reality.

 

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Source: Getty images, embedding permitted. Full size image here.

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23 hours ago, davidbr said:

16BA nuts are like hens' teeth at the moment

...you could try Squires (http://www.squirestools.com/files/12-19b.pdf) - 16BA nuts are still listed there (together with much else).  Clerkenwell Screws may have them but I don't think they have a website (020 7405 6504) but they do have an amazing range of stuff.

 

Kit PW

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23 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Sometimes my weathered stock appears cleaner in photos than in reality.

Photos are curious - they pick up a missing rail chair, open joint and misalignment but, as you say Mikkel, stock that looks suitably worn and weathered to the eye can look to be in near showroom condition in the same photo - to me at any rate, all a bit unpredictable!  I did wonder if the Getty photo(s) were "staged" with the cleanest wagons, Sunday shirts and rather relaxed looking operatives carefully arranged for the occasion.

 

Kit PW

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The Getty photograph of Bradwell Wood wagon was featured in a book on the NLR  published jointly by the National Railway and Science Museums in 1979. It doesn't mention who took the photograph only that they were official NLR ones. 

Close up of the wagon brings many features including both square nuts as well as hexagonal ones on the solebars together. The corner plates and other ironwork have a variety of coach bolts some with washers behind but the majority without. I know this would be difficult to achieve in 4mm scale but I model in 7mm and try to include them when ever possible.  

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1 hour ago, airnimal said:

The Getty photograph of Bradwell Wood wagon was featured in a book on the NLR  published jointly by the National Railway and Science Museums in 1979.

 

It also features in G.F. Chadwick, North Staffordshire Wagons (Wild Swan, 1993) as an example of a PO wagon based on the Knotty.

 

A very similar wagon from the same firm can be seen in the southbound goods and mineral train in this film shot at Bushey on the LNWR main line in 1897: https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-railway-traffic-on-the-lnwr-1897-online

 

Screen shot:

 

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And another in this northbound goods train on the Midland main line passing the scene of the Wellingborough accident of 2 September 1898:

 

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So, one of the better-documented PO wagons of the late 1890s!

Edited by Compound2632
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By the way, note the difference in design of the height extensions or raves on the wagon on the tippler compared to the two caught in trains above. I wonder if the wagon next to the one on the tippler is also Bradwell Wood? - the raves look more like the ones on the wagons in the trains.

 

Also, looking at the wagon on the tippler again, I see that the internal diagonals, where they come through onto the outside face of the solebar, are curved downwards, rather than straight in Gloucester fashion. Another detail that is very visible but I've never (yet) modelled is the catch for the bottom-door release - an RCH standard piece of kit of Midland design. (I think it first appeared with the high-sided side and bottom door wagons to drawing 550, aka D299, dating from 1882.)

 

My guess at livery is black, white lettering shaded red, with red diamond bordered white.

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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I wonder if the wagon next to the one on the tippler is also Bradwell Wood? - the raves look more like the ones on the wagons in the trains.

 

I was wondering about that difference in the raves. The one on the tippler has the planks fitted close together, which I don't recall seeing so often. Perhaps for a finer size of coke? Anyway, a search for Bradwell Wood led me to the D299 thread - I should have known that such a good photo wouldn't have escaped that thread.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113035-more-pre-grouping-wagons-in-4mm-the-d299-appreciation-thread/&do=findComment&comment=3770771

 

PS: I also searched for "coke raves", but that led to a whole different ball game! I expect Google will start serving me adverts for Ibiza now.

 

Edited by Mikkel
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6 hours ago, Mikkel said:

PS: I also searched for "coke raves", but that led to a whole different ball game! I expect Google will start serving me adverts for Ibiza now.

 

I would assume that PET will now be monitoring your emails, Mikkel :)

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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

He he, they will be reaching out to the BND (or should that be the BfV) next then: I was searching for "coke" on the Getty site and came across these nice dioramas which seem to be housed in the Deutches Museum in Munich. Must remember that if I ever pass through there:

 

https://www.gettyimages.dk/photos/coke-oven-germany-diorama?assettype=image&family=editorial&phrase=coke oven germany diorama&sort=oldest

 

Edited by Mikkel
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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

Oh, very nice, especially No. 1000. Right then, here's a plan, now I just need to convince my wife:

 

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Edited by Mikkel
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No 1000 is a splendid piece of railway engineering and well worth a viewing and so I thought I'd offer encouragement about your intended excursion to Venice (via Hamburg, Munich - with museum visit - and Padua) by recalling that my first* priority on arrival at Venezia Santa Lucia some years ago was to visit a very excellent hardware store adjacent to the Arsenale and buy a fully metric tape measure to replace those annoying half metric/half imperial things we have in UK....but, now I think about it, coming from metric Copenhagen, your wife will certainly already have one and so may therefore not find much benefit in visiting Venice (via Hamburg, Munich and Padua). I will try to think of some other reasons to promote  this excursion.

 

Kit PW

Swan Hill - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/blog/2502-swan-hill/

 

*not entirely correct, an espresso always comes first.

 

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Ha! Thanks for the inspiration, Kit. My wife is currently heavily into knitting, but the Venetians do not strike me as specialists in that department :)

 

I have taken the trip a couple of times before, but without the layover in Munich. Back in the early 1990s the number of tourists in Venice was comparatively limited during the winter, and the hotels relatively cheap. We took advantage of that. I remember fondly the first time we stepped out of Santa Lucia station after a good night on the train, and immediately the Canal Grande was right there in front of us, busy with all manner of vessels. Pure magic. It would be nice to relive it, although going back is not always wise. 

 

It would seem that B IX No. 1000 has been relocated to Lokwelt Freilassing, which is just across the boarder from Salzburg. I wonder if the Austrians are into knitting.

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