Jump to content
 

A Pannier of mixed parentage - GWR 1854 PT (1)


Mikkel

5,261 views

I’m building an 1854 Pannier Tank for Farthing in ca. 1919 condition, using a modified Hornby 2721 body, a Bachmann 57xx chassis and various parts from SEF and Brassmasters. Pure it is not. The project has been described on occasion in my workbench thread, but in a fragmented manner. This post summarizes progress to date. Prepare for many close-ups of green plastic 🙂

 

Background

 

001.jpg.6a330a06683a2bd40a03cd3fbaab796b.jpg

 

It's a bit of a nostalgia project. I wanted to do something with the old Hornby 2721,  a model I've had a liking for since first seeing it in the magical Hornby 1980 catalogue at the tender age of 11. Note the "X", it was high on my wish list back then. When I finally got one several decades later the running was a disappointment. So it went to sleep in The Big Box of Lost Souls, until I decided to bring it back to life.

 

 

002.jpg.4c8c7a83f11ddde31c3ccdb5f52d581e.jpg

 

The original plan was to make a backdated 2721, but along the way I decided to do the outwardly very similar 1854 PT class instead. The components I'm using match an 1854 PT a bit better, including the plain Bachmann conrods and the absence of visible springs behind the Hornby splashers (a feature of the 2721s).  The 1854s were also a bit more widely dispersed during the period in question. Above, I have plotted the 1921 allocations of the 1854s and 2721s into Google Maps. See details below this post.

 

So the goal is a pragmatic 1854 PT in ca. 1919 condition, a period I have a growing interest in. Ironically I have yet to find a 1919 photo of an 1854 PT. Instead I'm extrapolating from early 1920s photos (including a couple on the gwr.org.uk pannier page), and drawings in the Finney/Brassmasters kit instructions and Russell's "Pictorial Record of Great Western Engines" Vol 1. Thanks to Brassmasters for making their instructions freely available, I try to repay by purchasing fittings from them. The RCTS "Locomotives of the GWR" part 5 is a key reference. Jim's book "An Introduction to Great Western Locomotive Development" has also been useful.

 

 

Chassis and body

 

003.jpg.09e62d0553fe673fbfac7c7479dfaee9.jpg

 

I’m using a Bachmann 57xx/8750 chassis for the project.  Various chassis versions exist, including 32-200 (left) and 31-900 (right). I’m using the former, which is shorter and lower. 

 

 

004.jpg.b3cf1c354063239460eb8d35ccadaa33.jpg

 

Closer look at the chassis. The weight block has been removed to test the fit. Later it went back on.

 

 

005.jpg.df11a34cbc1249d343c5ea262c289b94.jpg

 

The Bachmann chassis and Hornby body. There are various well-known issues with the Hornby 2721. Hornby used a Jinty chassis, and so the splashers don’t line up with the more correctly dimensioned Bachmann chassis. The frames and bunker are also too long, and there’s no daylight under the boiler. The chimney is appealing, but wrong shape.

 

 

006.jpg.b8eb4752e8d30797ab7839a9c9dc29f9.jpg

 

I disassembled the body and was surprised to see that the tank/boiler top is a separate component, well disguised under the handrail.

 

 

Butchery

 

007.jpg.ebfa08794a5036e59737f6abc1c9df33.jpg

 

The first job was to get some light under the boiler/panniers. I used a scalpel, scoring repeatedly along the edges of the moulded sides with a used blade, then eventually cutting through with the tip of a sharp new blade.
 

 

008.jpg.f89444026b64bc47d7b5b847006e6d07.jpg

 

And there was light. 
 

 

009.jpg.dd6f290a44ef9c7380c1b619bee246cd.jpg

 

Then the interior was cut, carved and hacked about until the chassis was a good fit along the sides and ends. The photo is early on in the process, a good deal of material was removed.

 

 

010.jpg.ee5d4c79b7eefd075288b14d6720e47a.jpg

 

The chassis and modified body. There’s ample room for the Bachmann weight block, so that was re-fitted.

 

 

 011.jpg.e8f8b0273b385059ca94fd3526a3352c.jpg


The backhead was cut away to allow room for the gears. The motor does protrude a bit into the cab, but will disappear behind a new backhead.

 

 

012.jpg.2ddb3083d6bc7f3cb5cfb91d9f78e8c1.jpg

 
From the side.

 

 

Footplate

 

013.jpg.1bb178cb97a7839a3bb4265d2365375c.jpg

 

The Hornby body is too long for both an 1854 and a 2721. This is in fact the 2721 drawing from when that was the aim, but the principle is the same for the 1854.

 

 

014.jpg.d8898af686783107446374afe19efa4f.jpg

 

So I shortened the footplate by about 2,5 mm at each end, doing cut-and-shut.

 

 

Splashers

 

015.jpg.23bbd81a420f5e555d6679c15b70bf9c.jpg

 

The center splashers, being out of line, were then attacked along with the toolbox.

 

 

016.jpg.3303b989eafb3f49a423e5451bd6e562.jpg

 

The incorrectly positioned toolboxes, half-relief injectors, and very low sandboxes were also chopped off.

 

 

017.jpg.c107fbbd0f3f1465efadfd6aa767714d.jpg

 

I considered scratch building the replacement splashers as per my Dean Goods rebuild, but wasn’t in the mood. So I dug out a broken old Finecast 1854 that came with an ebay job lot. 
 

 

018.jpg.8d187b8abcee31367c6160d688a5765f.jpg


The Finecast splashers were cut off, cleaned up and fitted to the Hornby footplate.  There are no rear splashers on the Hornby body, so these were also fitted. Will fit bands to the front splasher later.

 

 

Bunker and Backhead
 

019.jpg.86c2c519f80b799801813b6a482525cf.jpg


 For the bunker I again turned to the old Finecast 1854…
 

 

020.jpg.f0c1b4221180e82d72a06e23c11cfa1a.jpg

 

 …and cleaned up the parts as best I could.
 

 

021.jpg.852e429a76b1ecb4228c5464801aad1a.jpg


 The 1854s and 2721s had the same frame and cab width, so in theory the 1854 bunker should be a direct match, but it was too narrow. I thought the Hornby body must be wrong, but checking the measurements again showed that the Finecast bunker isn’t as wide as it should be. Food for thought!
 

022.jpg.a66f64a121a6df608a82ff04288574e1.jpg


Anyway, I rebuilt the bunker with styrene panels. Later, plated coal rails were fitted. The original Hornby weight block was filed to suit. Along with the weight block on the Bachmann chassis, the loco now runs quite nicely.

 

023.jpg.60279104e61cccb61cca81da980a69ce.jpg


The worm and gears were concealed using an old Bachmann backhead, moved slightly back and with a raised section of cab floor beneath it. I’ve done this before, once the crew are fitted I don't notice it.

 

 

Beneath the tanks

 

024.jpg.095e0c4fbfd33ec43f950798a45d4860.jpg


The Hornby balance pipe is a blob one each side of the motor block, so I made some new blobs.
 

 

025.jpg.02f185e456ded4a73ddc4147ece19965.jpg

 

New firebox sides and rear tank supports (adapted to allow room for the injectors) were also made. Drawings of 1854 and 2721 PTs show the balance pipe fitted just behind the front splasher, but photos suggest that they were soon relocated to a position nearer the center of the tanks. So that’s what I have done.

 

 

026.jpg.58201b6cc203a816f932a12683a7954d.jpg

 

Removal of the “skirts” on the Hornby body exposes the Bachmann motor and lets too much light in. Strips of brass sheet were curved, painted and fitted each side to hide the motor.  Testing for shorts showed no problems.

 

 

Fittings

 

027.jpg.b01615f799857deedb25402e49032760.jpg


The Hornby tank top isn’t that bad, but the chimney (odd shape), tank fillers (too small) and grab rails (moulded lump) had to go. I'm wondering what the small pipes/cables running along the top are for, and when they were fitted.

 

 
 028.jpg.d730456c16c1533f7d578c82eb4a52b8.jpg


The chimney was sawn off, and the tank fillers removed (vertical slices in both directions, followed by a parallel cut along the bottom). The bluetack is for protecting details.
 

 

029.jpg.26d1207c4d75a3e2dcacf7d34a268dad.jpg


Finney/Brassmasters chimney from the 1854/2721 kit, the rest is from Alan Gibson. 
 

 

030.jpg.6a8b0827e27f6f270a0a5a4c8de940cc.jpg
 
Dry fit of the Finney chimney and tank fillers. The safety valve cover is so far an RTR item, can’t seem to find the appropriate shape in brass. I'm confused about the chimney position, forward or center on smokebox? I'm aiming for a pre-superheated version, but despite good photos on gwr.org.uk, I can't work out what it implies in my case.

 

 

031.jpg.2ed29e4735844acca97d4cbe9223f548.jpg

 

Tank vents from bits of filed styrene, seen here with the Alan Gibson tank fillers.

 

 

Smokebox

 

032.jpg.7b61a2d4f66f9af8d7b77a904b330521.jpg

 

The front also needed work. As it comes, the Hornby body has a Churchward pressed steel front. I rather like it.

 

 

033.jpg.630f8d35553f7114a0ee072ab3dd3bf9.jpg

 

But pre-1920 tank smokebox fronts tended to be plain, so it was all sanded away. Difficult, and it shows. A ring was added to the smokebox door, not quite the dished look but better than nothing. Alan Gibson door darts fitted, and new steps from scrap bits of brass.

 

 

Tank and cab sides

 

034.jpg.357ed3aec66847e282fe833a16ca0c29.jpg

 

Pannier tanks fitted before ca. 1917 were flush-riveted. After that they were snap head rivetted (1917-1924) and then had welded seams (after 1924).  I decided that my loco was fitted with panniers before 1917, and therefore sanded away the Hornby rivets. That took the shine off her!

 

 

035.jpg.c4350d8b09a63ffc121151e5de6a861a.jpg
 
The lower cabsides are too narrow on the Hornby body, so these have been extended. This photo also shows the plated coal rails on the bunker (which is still loose).

 

036.jpg.02810faa51b706d3ef26dc89c09beed8.jpg


After a hiatus the project is now on the move again. I'm making a new cab roof and have started fitting details. More on that later. Thanks to all who helped with info and advice. 

 

For part 2 see: 

 

Edited by Mikkel

  • Like 15
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
  • Craftsmanship/clever 29
  • Round of applause 1

60 Comments


Recommended Comments



  • RMweb Gold

I have a Hornby 2721, representing Tondu's 2761 in her final condition as withdrawn from Tondu in 1950, which I have worked up a bit by replacing the Hornby chimney and safety valve cover with spares from a scrap Westward 64xx that had been replaced with a Baccy RTR.  It has a Baccy 57xx chassis, and I have learned to live with the minor mismatch of wheels and splashers, only really apparent in a direct broadside on view.  The chimney on the Hornby is that shape to allow release from the mould, apparently, but there is little excuse for the upturned flower pot that does duty as the safety valve cover.  Any other view than 90 degree broadside is 'incorrect' anyway on a 00 model because of the gauge issue, please, everyone, this is not an invitation to re-open that debate...

 

Your comments about the bunker length are interesting, as I have also been given (courtesy Philou of this very parish) a Wills I854 in non-running order, which I'd intended to build a new Southeastern chassis for at one time.  Tondu had an 1854, 1740, that outlasted 2761 by almost a year and would be in some ways a better prototype, and having read this, I'm now leaning to making 1740 out of a combination of Hornby and Wills parts on the Bachmann running chassis.  A drawback to 2761 is that the Bachmann 57xx chassis has the plain fishbelly coupling rods that you would expect from a 57xx, and many 2721s ran with such rods in their later lives, but 2761, which I have photographs of on the recep. roads and the dump at Swindon, had straight fluted rods, so the original Hornby chassis was better in that particular regard!  I have no photos of 1740 in her late Tondu condition, so feel justified in including the Baccy coupling rods, and possibly an enclosed cab to conceal the gear intrusion into the cab through the firehole door; on 2761 this is done by the crew and the canvas weather sheet being deployed,  But the bunker is too long, and looks it, and a hybrid Hornby/Wills body might be a way to address this.

 

That said, anyone who brings out either a 2721 or 1854 half cab pannier to current RTR standards will precipitate the immediate abandonment of all this, and the Bachmann chassis can go back under it's original body.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold
On 17/11/2021 at 19:52, The Johnster said:

I'm now leaning to making 1740 out of a combination of Hornby and Wills parts on the Bachmann running chassis. 


Would be nice to see another one! The short bunker/footplate width of the Wills/Finecast kit is a bit of a mystery. I built the Saddle Tank variant of that kit (on another Bachmann chassis), and never noticed it :pardon_mini:.

 

Edited by Mikkel
  • Like 1
Link to comment
  • RMweb Premium

Beautiful, tidy craftsmanship as per usual.  The thought that you’d cut down the ends just to make it fit the drawing is mind boggling - that’s attention to detail for you!  Fantastic rebuild and it’s going to look great at Farthing.  Love how you incorporated those splashers perfectly. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

Many thanks Mike. After seeing Dana's saddle tank double-act I'm beginning to regret I didn't do a second ST version instead. Two saddle tanks together looks very good. But that's too late now, always onwards.

 

 

Edited by Mikkel
  • Like 2
Link to comment
On 14/01/2022 at 02:54, Mikkel said:

But that's too late now, always onwards.

Mikkel, I'd like to say its never too late, but I really do want to see your finished pannier tank.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

Yes, am working on it as we speak. No doubt it will be done just before an updated RTR version appears! But this one is mine :)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
RCP

Posted (edited)

Are the tank filer caps the Buffalo 850 variety from Alan Gibson?

Edited by RCP
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold
Mikkel

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, RCP said:

Are the tank filer caps the Buffalo 850 variety from Alan Gibson?

 

I have just checked my confirmation email for this order back in 2020. It says:

 

2x 4M626 GWR Pannier tank water fillers (P)

 

But looking in his current catalogue I can't find it. Only a saddle tank variety. Maybe you'll have to get in touch with Colin, unless someone else stocks his range?

 

1 hour ago, Penrhos1920 said:

I’m looking forward to Mikkel backdating the Accurascale 57xx

 

Maybe, if a saddle tank will fit 🙂 But there's a 2021ST conversion to deal with first, I got stuck and it's languishing in the cupboard. I swear it emits an occasional whimper!

 

Edited by Mikkel
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
  • RMweb Premium

You can get 2021 bits  and/or kits from Dave Ellis at Nucast Partners, I recently started building a saddle tank and lost a couple of the splashers, a phone call to him resulted in the recalcitrant parts, plus an unexpected bonus an Armstrong Standard Goods with a Dean tender. I don't have the contact number to hand, but if you pm on Tuesday morning, to remind me to find it. It's currently too cold to go over the workshop as a special trip.

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...