A Pre-Group Minories

All bell codes (except prehaps train entering section...although some companies did call attention for this too) would have call attention (a single beat) which would be repeated by the advance box, sent before the main message code.

Also 'Train out of section' would only be sent when the train had passed the signal box (and the clearing point 440 yds beyond the home board) AND was complete with tail lamp (the tail lamp is only there to prove the train is complete, nothing else!).

 

Andy g

Thanks Andy, always learning on this one!

I always run to the signals on my layout and I think it adds a lot to the pleasure of running trains. I tried running with bell codes just the once; it just became hard work and the enjoyment went. There is a lot of dinging for each train manoeuvre and it became too much. Mine is a through station which of course doubles the number of bells.

 

This isn't 100% correct but its not too far off.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chris M

Yes, I follow Plumpton Green on YouTube and there's an awful lot of ringing. I think with an. accurate track plan, you can choose to add or omit signals, and with signals you can choose to add or omit bells - so you may as well see how it lands!

Having operated Buckingham for around 10 years now, I have grown to enjoy operating with a good timetable, signalling and block bells and instruments. When I operate layouts without them, it just seems as though something is missing.

 

The block bells and instruments only really make sense when you have two control positions and two operators. On other layouts, without such things, you end up asking the other operator "Are you ready for the express?" anyway. So why not do it the way the real railways did?

 

When we exhibited Leighton Buzzard, the controls for the station were at the front and visible, which created lots of opportunities to explain to people, especially youngsters, what we were doing and why and we were able to create audience participation by getting people to have a go at sending the bell codes. It really added to the enjoyment.

 

You need to get the volume of the bells just right and you need the pace of operation just right too. If you are too frantic, it can become too much. If you make the fiddle yard something like flashing lights rather than bells, you lose the false effect of geing able to hear the bells at both ends but on Buckingham and Leighton Buzzard that has never bothered anybody.

 

As for interlocking, I have never bothered. We don't lose lives if we get it wrong on a model railway. I have thought about trying it once or twice, possibly electrically rather than mechanically. It has never got any further than trying to work out all the combinations needed and my brain hurting!

It pains me to know that you must have been standing behind Leighton Buzzard at the LFRM in 2020 and I didn't join the dots at the time, so you'll have to excuse that. I dearly wish one day I could see Buckingham in the flesh, maybe I can ply you with gateaux one of these days.

 

RE: operator interaction, I think if you've got buy-in from both then that makes alot of sense. I've joined the local finescale group so between that and a few current friends, hopefully I may find some who are sporting enough.

 

I think interlocking is definitely one of the things that would be added AFTER the layout is 'finished' as a way of extending the modelling and construction opportunities on an otherwise complete system. If I remember correctly there's an arduino sketch which you enter in a table similar to that shown in the original blog entry and it handles the locks and releases (albeit with flashing red lights and nothing happening, rather than a physical lock).

 

 

6 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

It pains me to know that you must have been standing behind Leighton Buzzard at the LFRM in 2020 and I didn't join the dots at the time, so you'll have to excuse that. I dearly wish one day I could see Buckingham in the flesh, maybe I can ply you with gateaux one of these days.

 

RE: operator interaction, I think if you've got buy-in from both then that makes alot of sense. I've joined the local finescale group so between that and a few current friends, hopefully I may find some who are sporting enough.

 

I think interlocking is definitely one of the things that would be added AFTER the layout is 'finished' as a way of extending the modelling and construction opportunities on an otherwise complete system. If I remember correctly there's an arduino sketch which you enter in a table similar to that shown in the original blog entry and it handles the locks and releases (albeit with flashing red lights and nothing happening, rather than a physical lock).

 

 

 

I am not sure we exhibited anywhere in 2020!

 

I like the idea of adding interlocking retrospectively. It is one of those jobs that you can do just when you think there is nothing left to do.

 

You set me off thinking about it. My new one will have all the points and signals on one board, so I was planning on having a mechanical lever frame. The track layout and signalling is fairly simple, so perhaps if I add a suitable arm to the levers in the frame to work interlocking, I will have the option of adding it later myself.

 

 

13 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

Also 'Train out of section' would only be sent when the train had passed the signal box (and the clearing point 440 yds beyond the home board) AND was complete with tail lamp (the tail lamp is only there to prove the train is complete, nothing else!).

 

Andy g

.... depending on the company involved.... because despite the Block Regs having been agreed at the RCH, there were at least four different practices concerning Train Out of Section as they managed to interpret things differently!.  This was why the LNER had a problem trying to standardise the rules at Grouping when the rest of the Big Four all issued a common book by the early thirties.  It also took BR until 1960 to consolidate the regs into the standard green book usually used as the definitive set, and even then there were quite a lot of SR only bell codes and the WR had a few differences too.

• Some exchanged Call Attention first, some didn't.  Some signalmen dropped Call Attention but only unofficially if management weren't about (called sloppy working).
• Some acknowledged 2-1 by a single beat (they presumably were trying to avoid potential confusion as to whether you also wanted to block out in the other direction)
• Some only exchanged 2-1 when the train had passed the 1/4 mile with tail lamp complete AND the train was continuing on its journey.
• Some sent 2-1 the train had passed the 1/4 mile with tail lamp complete but kept the block at ToL until the train was continuing on its journey, at which point they dropped the block and sent 1 beat.

And fairly recently around the March area, it was practice (tacitly accepted by management) of sending 2-1 and dropping the block, with no acknowledgment - this saves the chap at the box in rear having to get off his backside to acknowledge.

 

Then there's what you did on Permissive Block where that was authorised using instruments which had counters incremented when another train entered an occupied line.

With Track Circuit Block there are no Block instruments and trains don't need to be offered and accepted, but in the absence of Train Describers the standard bell code as used in Absolute Block might be used to describe the train without prior Call Attention.

And the Midland had a dreadful system of "Signalling by Telegraph Bells", where the Slow/Goods lines didn't have their own block instruments, and they shared the same bell with the fast line (saving the cost not only of instruments but more importantly on line wires).  If the train was offered with Call Attention exchanged first, it was running on the Main/Fast line, if Call Attention wasn't sent, it was running on the Goods (probably permissively).

 

I think its was the NER and LYR who also had bell codes which allowed train to be offered and accepted on the wrong line - goods trains only, and generally after the daytime service had finished.

Maybe 2019? Everything is blurring into one

 

As you know, this layout has all the turnouts in one board also, so mechanical actuation would (hopefully) be fairly straight forward - but the signals are a little more widely spaced to unless I can figure out a reliable mechanical join for the runs will have to be servo operated.

I posted a thread in the Signalling subforum to clarify the block sections for the layout plan and to confirm the specifics around pulling off home signals at a terminus - if you have to do it before you set line clear to allow the signal box in rear to pull of their starter signal - why bother having home signals at all?

 

 

5 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Having operated Buckingham for around 10 years now, I have grown to enjoy operating with a good timetable, signalling and block bells and instruments. When I operate layouts without them, it just seems as though something is missing.

 

I remember articles in the Modeller decades ago.  I assumed that layout was long gone - I take it I was mistaken.  I quite agree that proper block working, a timetable and clock make an enormous difference to a satisfying operating session.  For over 50 years I have from time to time operated one part or another of a very extensive O gauge coarse scale railway which is fully block signalled, although for security reasons it would be quite inappropriate to identify the layout or disclose where it is.  The layout in question will ultimately need to be relocated and it was going to be moved to AIMREC, but they have now been forced to drop out as they don't have the extensive premises they had originally hoped for.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Maybe 2019? Everything is blurring into one

 

As you know, this layout has all the turnouts in one board also, so mechanical actuation would (hopefully) be fairly straight forward - but the signals are a little more widely spaced to unless I can figure out a reliable mechanical join for the runs will have to be servo operated.

 

On Buckingham, mechanical linkages are taken across baseboard joints by a sprung plunger arrangement. The lever creates a push on the plunger on one side and the signal or point is held one way by a spring and returns to that position when the lever is returned in the frame. I attach a couple of snaps of the underneath of Leighton Buzzard to illustrate.

May I please ask what the socket or connector going through the baseboard joint looks like? It's a simple hook and loop or something?

20 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I remember articles in the Modeller decades ago.  I assumed that layout was long gone - I take it I was mistaken.  I quite agree that proper block working, a timetable and clock make an enormous difference to a satisfying operating session.  For over 50 years I have from time to time operated one part or another of a very extensive O gauge coarse scale railway which is fully block signalled, although for security reasons it would be quite inappropriate to identify the layout or disclose where it is.  The layout in question will ultimately need to be relocated and it was going to be moved to AIMREC, but they have now been forced to drop out as they don't have the extensive premises they had originally hoped for.

 

 

 

Yes, Buckingham is alive and well! There are still plenty of little jobs to be done but it is mostly fully operational and it gets run once or twice most weeks. I attach a recent photo plus some snaps of the block bells and instruments.

 

17 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I posted a thread in the Signalling subforum to clarify the block sections for the layout plan and to confirm the specifics around pulling off home signals at a terminus - if you have to do it before you set line clear to allow the signal box in rear to pull of their starter signal - why bother having home signals at all?

 

 

A real Signal Box usually (these days) has what is called Line Clear Release.  That means that the signal box in advance must have turned his instrument to Line Clear (or the equivalent on a single line instrument) otherwise the lever for the Starting Signal is electrically locked at Danger.  This is a safeguard against the signalman prematurely clearing that signal.  Having cleared it he must have the ability to put it back to Danger, as he might need to if an emergency arises.

A more advanced version of this is a control called Line Clear One Pull.  He can pull the signal with the block at line clear, but as a safeguard against his pulling it again for a second train until the Block has been restored for the first and a second Line Clear is obtained.

 

In the case of Home Signals, they are often required to be at Danger before Line Clear can be given - a contact can be fitted to the back of the signal which will detect the signalman omitting to put it back behind a train.  It would be contrary to normal practice to have to clear the home signal before accepting a train.  A home signal might be locked at Danger until the section of track immediately has become occupied for a minim period (perhaps a couple of minutes), so that a train will find the distant at Caution and be forced to have slowed down before the signal can be cleared - this might be used for a low speed point into a yard or similar.  This enforces one of the old procedural rules that a signalman must see that a train has come to (or nearly to) a stand before certain low speed movements may be signalled.  Signals into a terminus, including distants used to be cleared provide the line was clear to the stops.  If there was a vehicle standing near the stops, the signal would only be cleared once the signalman could see that speed was under control.  Nowadays, distants would be fixed at caution, and the final signal would show at best a single yellow aspect.

Right - so I've got the order of home signal-line clear wrong. Thank you! I've updated the original entry to reflect that.

 

In regard to your last point about a vehicle standing at the stops - in my era wouldn't this be controlled by a calling on signal (pulled off when the locomotive had come (nearly) to a stop at it?

11 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Yes, Buckingham is alive and well! There are still plenty of little jobs to be done but it is mostly fully operational and it gets run once or twice most weeks. I attach a recent photo plus some snaps of the block bells and instruments.

 

Glad to hear it's still going strong.

 

I've had to maintain a number of home-made instruments and bells similar to this for the layout I mentioned earlier.  That is worked mostly by lever frame and cords, with the signal or point returning to normal either by a rubber band or using gravity with a weight to pull it back when the lever is restored.  This needs an enormous amount of maintenance of a big layout.  There was originally some limited interlocking using additional cords.  For example, the signal reading over a point required to be Normal could not be cleared when the point lever was Reverse because a cord tied between the signal and point lever via a pivot behind the frame prevented both being pulled at the same time.  Signals reading in both directions over a crossover could not be cleared at the same time by the same method.  This interlocking was however far too heavy on maintenance to cope with ham-fisted operators and has been abandoned.

23 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Right - so I've got the order of home signal-line clear wrong. Thank you! I've updated the original entry to reflect that.

 

In regard to your last point about a vehicle standing at the stops - in my era wouldn't this be controlled by a calling on signal (pulled off when the locomotive had come (nearly) to a stop at it?

If it was a regular practice, a call-on signal would probably be provided.   Some companies were more generous than others with their provision.

If not, bring the train to a stand before clearing the signal, by which the driver understands that he must drive only as far as he can see the line is clear.

It would not be at all unusual not to have a call on into a terminus.

17 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Glad to hear it's still going strong.

 

I've had to maintain a number of home-made instruments and bells similar to this for the layout I mentioned earlier.  That is worked mostly by lever frame and cords, with the signal or point returning to normal either by a rubber band or using gravity with a weight to pull it back when the lever is restored.  This needs an enormous amount of maintenance of a big layout.  There was originally some limited interlocking using additional cords.  For example, the signal reading over a point required to be Normal could not be cleared when the point lever was Reverse because a cord tied between the signal and point lever via a pivot behind the frame prevented both being pulled at the same time.  Signals reading in both directions over a crossover could not be cleared at the same time by the same method.  This interlocking was however far too heavy on maintenance to cope with ham-fisted operators and has been abandoned.

 

That sounds a fascinating layout. It is a shame that Cliff has had to scale back his plans for AIMREC but it was always a very ambitious scheme and the pandemic seems to have made the difference between him being able to do the full version or having to be a bit less ambitious. I hope a new home can be found for the layout. Are there any photos online or any that you can show us? I would be most interested in seeing what it looks like.

 

I know the joys of maintaining old layouts very well! Several things on Buckingham rely on springs, cord and rubber bands. All weaken and lose their effectiveness over time and trying to work out how to get things apart to replace or fix them is sometimes very frustrating but a great learning experience.

 

Thanks for the notes on the operating procedures too. If you read the notes next to the Buckingham Block instruments, I am not sure we are doing it 100% correctly but as the power is switched through the signals, they really need to be pulled a bit earlier than perhaps they should!  

Edited December 6, 2021 by t-b-g

 

 

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

That sounds a fascinating layout. It is a shame that Cliff has had to scale back his plans for AIMREC but it was always a very ambitious scheme and the pandemic seems to have made the difference between him being able to do the full version or having to be a bit less ambitious. I hope a new home can be found for the layout. Are there any photos online or any that you can show us? I would be most interested in seeing what it looks like.

The real problem at AIMREC was the originally envisaged premises not being available, and nothing on a similar scale being available, funds were perhaps not as much much as had been hoped, and whilst the pandemic has obviously delayed progress I don't think it was a key factor.  I don't think there are any photos of the layout online, although it featured in a series of three consecutive issues of the Constructor many years ago.  Part of the layout were originally portable, and it did venture out once to an exhibition before I was involved.  The layout has been extended considerably since then and dismantling/moving it will be very difficult. 

 

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

If you read the notes next to the Buckingham Block instruments, I am not sure we are doing it 100% correctly but as the power is switched through the signals, they really need to be pulled a bit earlier than perhaps they should!  

It's quite easy to wire with old fashioned 3-rail DC. Each station has a controller for each of its running lines.  Control is handed over from one operator to the next at the Home Signal.  The power feed is taken through a rotary selector switch, and you select the signal to which you want to drive and that runs to the third rail via contacts on the levers of the signals in rear of that.  Where points intervene, lever contacts corresponding to the normal/reverse positions link the relevant tracks together.   So unless you set the points and clear the signals power doesn't reach the piece of track the loco is on, and if you pass the selected signal, the train grinds to a halt as the power goes no further.  One the running rails acts as common return for traction.  The other rail is broken into sections for track circuits, these are connected to bulbs for illuminated box diagrams, fed by an AC supply.  The uninsulated wheels of 3-rail stock complete the circuit, which lights the lamps when the track is occupied although of course this system is not fail safe.    

2 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

 

The real problem at AIMREC was the originally envisaged premises not being available, and nothing on a similar scale being available, funds were perhaps not as much much as had been hoped, and whilst the pandemic has obviously delayed progress I don't think it was a key factor.  I don't think there are any photos of the layout online, although it featured in a series of three consecutive issues of the Constructor many years ago.  Part of the layout were originally portable, and it did venture out once to an exhibition before I was involved.  The layout has been extended considerably since then and dismantling/moving it will be very difficult. 

 

It's quite easy to wire with old fashioned 3-rail DC. Each station has a controller for each of its running lines.  Control is handed over from one operator to the next at the Home Signal.  The power feed is taken through a rotary selector switch, and you select the signal to which you want to drive and that runs to the third rail via contacts on the levers of the signals in rear of that.  Where points intervene, lever contacts corresponding to the normal/reverse positions link the relevant tracks together.   So unless you set the points and clear the signals power doesn't reach the piece of track the loco is on, and if you pass the selected signal, the train grinds to a halt as the power goes no further.  One the running rails acts as common return for traction.  The other rail is broken into sections for track circuits, these are connected to bulbs for illuminated box diagrams, fed by an AC supply.  The uninsulated wheels of 3-rail stock complete the circuit, which lights the lamps when the track is occupied although of course this system is not fail safe.    

 

Buckingham works in a similar way but on 2 rail. Basically, you drive a train towards you. So if a train is leaving Buckingham for Grandborough, you offer it, set the points and signals and that transfers the relevant platform and departure line to the Grandborough controller. Buckingham then gives the 2 beats before the train starts. On Buckingham, 2 beats means "Points and signals set at this end, train ready to go, turn your controller on". When the signals are not cleared, the train is isolated but you can drive in and out using the Buckingham controller which is connected to the track via calling on and shunt ahead signals. No need for track circuits on the scenic section but there are lights to indicate which fiddle yard road has been selected and whether the points are set correctly for an up or a down train.

 

I did a little video on the control systems for one of the "virtual" shows earlier in the year, if you are interested to see a bit more detail.

 

 

 

,,,and there goes another 40 minutes. I swear, I could watch videos on Buckingham all day.

I too find signals an important part of the layout. I plan to have a lever frame which will work microswitches. I would have liked to build a proper interlocking frame but lack of time plus increasing arthritis means it would probably never get done. So I have written the code for an interlocking unit which will regularly poll the microswitches and if a lever has changed state will first heck that he lever is unlocked. If locked a red light will be on on the frame and any lever pulls ignored until the lever is restored. If unlocked it will send a signal to operate the turnout or signal and then check with a locking table and apply any lock and releases as approtriate. The heart of it is an Arduino Mega pretty cheap. 

I am also thinking about an automatic fiddleyard device that will send bell signals when it thinks a train should be dispatched to the terminus. A sort of modern version of Peter Denny's Automatic Crispen.

 

Don

On the layout I am talking about, you drive to the next station (but only after you have offered it and the box in advance has accepted it).  The next box (if train is not booked to call and conditions permit) will have offered it on and cleared all his signals and turned his controller on so it continues until it reaches a box which is unable to send it on.  If the train is booked to stop, or if the line ahead is still occupied, a box will clear the appropriate signals and drive the train accordingly.  If there are insufficient operators to man all signal boxes, some stations can be switched out of circuit, that all his main signals are pulled off and the sections connected together electrically, so the box in rear drives as far as the next box.    

Operator in one box cannot in most cases see what is happening at adjacent boxes, so reliance has to be placed on the block.  Track circuit lighting up are useful as confirmation of  approaching trains.  Completeness of trains is established by attaching tail lamps, some of these are proper cast metal models of a lamp, some are simply red painted discs hung on the coupling hook of the last vehicle.