Jump to content

Undecided sky (1867)


Mikkel

36,472 views

More "out of period" operation here. This time going back in time quite a bit. In fact, it seems they didn't even have flush-glazing back then ;).

 

 

001.jpg.3423f777b7e6b0df04da26d6c154247c.jpg

The year is 1867, and it is early days at Farthing station. Mr Crummles gently guides his wife towards the first class carriage, while Mr Doyce looks on in anticipation of the journey ahead.

 

 

 

002.jpg.5177ee10658ac7acd654962286fc1ef3.jpg

Mrs Crummles is somewhat apprehensive. It is only a few months since that dreadful accident at Warrington, and who knows what could happen?

 

 

 

003.jpg.3900167c855bcb5c66e5928d8c2d8e1a.jpg

Meanwhile Mr Doyce, ever the optimist, studies the magnificent engine that will be whisking them to Salisbury. For him there was never any doubt: These fine machines have forever changed the world!

 

 

 

004.jpg.8bb58dba158e22a936690519d1230a9a.jpg

Plucking up her courage, Mrs Crummles asks her husband one last time if he is quite sure that it is safe to get on?

 

 

 

005.jpg.0c922c5480375cb50409c7cd5cabba53.jpg

While the last passengers finally board the afternoon departure, an undecided sky develops over Farthing. For worriers and optimists alike, the future seems uncertain but exciting.

  • Like 12
  • Round of applause 2

45 Comments


Recommended Comments



  • Members

Please forgive my coming to this particular story a decade late - I have just discovered these posts, and am working my way through - but it is a delight to see a railway scene with beautifully dressed ladies and gentlemen.  As one who goes weak-kneed at a crinoline, and flounces round in a frock coat at any opportunity, it is a shame there are not more layouts thus.

 

As a useless piece of information, I believe the (otherwise wonderful) Charles Frederick Worth of Paris decided the 'full' (round, bell) crinoline passe in 1862, his designs moving towards one with a flatter front and more Edwardian 'bustle' shape.  And do not get me started on the replacement of 'white tie' evening dress with casual 'black' by the Prince of Wales/Edward vii. in the '80's...

 

Wonderful blogs, and I look forward to reading more as time allows.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold
Mikkel

Posted (edited)

Many thanks. There is no such thing as useless information, I think.

 

The figures seen here are modified Preiser ones, using plastic putty to add beards.

 

 image.png.0acda848e143612c44411c18ba5bf90f.png

 

Since then Andrew Stadden has introduced an excellent range of Victorian and Edwardian figures which may appeal (no connection). His OO range is here: https://www.acstadden.co.uk/shop-3

 

Edited by Mikkel
  • Like 3
Link to comment
  • Members

I am much obliged for your kind hints as to the Victorian figures.  The more I do of the basic scenery on my layout, the more it needs its own figures, but I have not the courage yet to try any modifying.  I have an idea for a 'micro-layout' when the competing OO 19th-C. carriages are released and an attempt with Miliput clay to model ladies in full crinolines.  I had seen Andrew Stadden's range, and have them in mind...

 

Instead of droning on till your eyes bleed about frock-coats, may I recommend to you the 'bible' of 19th C. costume: Cunnington & Cunnington's 'Handbook of English costume in the nineteenth century', Lond.: Faber & Faber, 1959.  The 2d ed. is a reprint, the 3d has an additonal chapter on children's clothing, if you are interested.  They wrote volumes on the 20th C., as well, which might be if use.  With all good wishes.

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

Thanks for the reference to Cunnington's books. They may also be of interest to Chris who modifies figures for his Victorian Traeth Mawr layout:

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment

I am not on my own computer at the moment, (I hope to get it back as my grand daughter has returned to school and hopefully does not need it any longer for online lessons), but I have a link to Roger Vaughn who used to have a website of old Victorian photos and in it has photos dated by year from about 1850 or so, so that you can see the fashions year by year.  Also There is a site called Barrington House, which I think is based in the US but it has yearly fashion plates, again from the 1850s.  These I think are English/European as they differed slightly from US ones and are very useful.

 

The Stadden figures in crinolines are very good, and he has some sitting down.  @5&9Models has some early Victorian figures as well to make a change.  His blog is also worth following, London in the 1850s.

 

I do model 1895 and some ladies have been converted to look the part, mainly the 'posh' ones as they can afford high fashion, the others remain Edwardian, and I ignore that.

 

Interesting thought.  Many years ago, I heard a football supporter saying that when they went to away games up north the fashions were about 9 months behind those of London.  (Nowadays as every town has the same shops then that is not the case.)  The further away from London that you go, and lower down the social order, the more you can justify 'out of date' fashions.

 

Finally, and I have said this before on my thread, in 'Grandfathers London', which is a book of photographs of ordinary people in 1875, there is a lady half on the photograph in clothing of the 1850s, without the crinoline.  I understand that the second hand, and third, fourth and fifth hand market was quite strong so you can, to a point have older styles.

 

I really should be building coaches but often get distracted with figures, and then they talk to me and I have to write down what they say!  Once I get some buildings up I shall have to have a Blog to reveal what they said.

  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to comment
15 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

The further away from London that you go, and lower down the social order, the more you can justify 'out of date' fashions.

 

Finally, and I have said this before on my thread, in 'Grandfathers London', which is a book of photographs of ordinary people in 1875, there is a lady half on the photograph in clothing of the 1850s, without the crinoline.  I understand that the second hand, and third, fourth and fifth hand market was quite strong so you can, to a point have older styles.

 

 

I think you should always have older styles. People could only have up-to-date fashion if they could afford it and the vast majority of them couldn’t. Most clothing was as you say third, fourth even fifth hand, either hand-me-downs or bought from second hand shops. There are some fabulous and inspiring photos of what most folks wore in ‘Dickens’s Victorian London’ by Werner and Williams, ISBN 978-0-09-194373-8 and ‘Images of Lost London’ by Philip Davies, ISBN 978-1-909242-04-3. But these  fascinating books come with a health warning, you will be up ‘til the small hours as once opened they are almost impossible to put down!

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to comment
  • Members
16 hours ago, 5&9Models said:

 

I think you should always have older styles. People could only have up-to-date fashion if they could afford it and the vast majority of them couldn’t. Most clothing was as you say third, fourth even fifth hand, either hand-me-downs or bought from second hand shops. There are some fabulous and inspiring photos of what most folks wore in ‘Dickens’s Victorian London’ by Werner and Williams, ISBN 978-0-09-194373-8 and ‘Images of Lost London’ by Philip Davies, ISBN 978-1-909242-04-3. But these  fascinating books come with a health warning, you will be up ‘til the small hours as once opened they are almost impossible to put down!

 

I am much obliged to both of you for the 'Grandfather's...' and 'Dickens's...' refs., and heartily recommend both 'Images of Lost London' and 'Panoramas of Lost London' - neither cheap but worth every penny.  Clothes took a long time to die: the toffs passed them on to their staff, who sold them on to clothes merchants, which ended up in Petticoat Lane, and eventually they were worn in the slums of St Giles, or shipped out to the Empire.  Most women of all classes wore both corsets and crinolines (and later bustles instead of the latter).  I am rushing this at work, but can recommend several yards of books of contemporary accounts, and especially the wonderful 'London In The Nineteenth Century' by Jerry White.  There are refs in the latter that will keep you reading for the rest of your life, should you be so distracted.

 

Sorry, can post more inspiring titles later if of interest.

  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold
Mikkel

Posted (edited)

This discussion prompted me to have a look at the clothing shown in contemporary paintings. Of course, they are rather biased, aiming for that "wow" effect.

 

 1282705736_gettyimages-90746311-2048x2048(1).jpg.a94af89dd575be221b75d88baa5af055.jpg

Abraham Solomon, 1854. Source: Getty Images (embedding permitted).

 

gettyimages-90746142-2048x2048.jpg.8ba71bc56e67a7e8a0bd46a5b5574cf8.jpg

Abraham Solomon, 1855. Source: Getty images (embedding permitted).

 

Holl_(after_Frith)_The_Railway_Station_colorized.jpg.1b2b2b8a4e72820049ebaf87af39b0d2.jpg

William Powell Frith: "The railway station" (Paddington). 1862. Source: Wikimedia Commons. Large version here.

 

Edited by Mikkel
  • Like 2
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to comment
kitpw

Posted (edited)

William Powell Frith says this about the costumes in a few of his pictures - I'm not sure what to make of it in terms of the history of fashion:

 

"My grandmother, who long survived the squire [her husband], lived and died in the last house that remained of the Powell property, leaving me as a legacy her wedding-dress, which I have found an excellent "property" as a piece of costume.  Dolly Varden wears it; Sophia Primrose, of immortal "Vicar of Wakefield" fame is dressed in it in several pictures - to say nothing of one or two "Brides of Lammeroor" and others;..."  (William Powell Frith "My Autobiography and Reminiscences").

 

I dare say that close study of "The Railway Station" would reveal said wedding dress - Frith himself appears in the picture just to the left of the man with the fur collar (bowler hat and mutton chops) more or less in the centre.

 

Kit PW

 

edit - The V & A has a collection of objects and images which is worth a look (search "fashion" on their website).

Edited by kitpw
  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold
16 hours ago, kitpw said:

I dare say that close study of "The Railway Station" would reveal said wedding dress - Frith himself appears in the picture just to the left of the man with the fur collar (bowler hat and mutton chops) more or less in the centre.

 

It's a fascinating painting. There's a discussion of it here. Apparently it drew up to 1000 visitors a day when first displayed. There are some nicely modellable scenes:

 

frith2.JPG.9cb23b78bd4d18e5ae71232865fc8857.JPG 

frith.JPG.a8e8fd1bbf36e23665f2dd036821e643.JPG 

I was puzzled by the gentleman below. At first I thought he was smoking (there's a challenge for you Chris: A 4mm pipe), but looking again I'm not sure.

 

smoker.JPG.6f85d063672228a4603c056bfde4dbd4.JPG

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold
14 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Here is the link to The Barrington House.  They say their site is still under construction but it has not changed for years.

 

This is the Roger Vaughn collection.

 

What a resource those sites are. Of course they are all dressed for the occasion, but if I understand correctly railway journeys were also cause for dressing up.  Looking at the Edwardian era, I have noticed this style in some Edwardian station photos, a rather different appearance from the cheerful bright dresses we normally see modelled. A big city phenomenon, perhaps.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

What a resource those sites are. Of course they are all dressed for the occasion, but if I understand correctly railway journeys were also cause for dressing up.  Looking at the Edwardian era, I have noticed this style in some Edwardian station photos, a rather different appearance from the cheerful bright dresses we normally see modelled. A big city phenomenon, perhaps.

 

Mikkel,

My impression is of looking at Edwardian photos is that the blouse/shirt and skirt was a very common choice for day wear.  To this would be added a jacket and coat to keep warm.  It was a style that became popular through the 1890s, but before that it was mainly dresses.  I am not sure how often women changed through the day as well, eg, blouse and skirt morning and going out, dress for receiving visitors for afternoon tea.  Again, I think this habit was dying out.

 

I am not sure when exactly the wearing of mourning clothes died out.  Earlier in the era it was very common, and for different periods of time.  There was a comment in a book somewhere from a young lady that the styles and colours this year were really nice and she hoped no one she knew would die so that she did not have to go into mourning.  There are not many ladies seen on layouts in black, although purple was also a mourning colour apparently.

 

When the Third Class Cambrian Saloon is finally built it will be populated with ladies from the local Temperance Society.  They will mainly be in dark clothing some of which will be black.

 

The Stadden range is mainly coats or jackets and skirts, (Mainly?  4 out of 5.), so not too bad.

 

Disclaimer:  I sound like an expert but I am not really.  Like most things with me my knowledge is fairly superficial, my comments have come from the observations of photos.  

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to comment
21 hours ago, Mikkel said:

This discussion prompted me to have a look at the clothing shown in contemporary paintings. Of course, they are rather biased, aiming for that "wow" effect.

 

 1282705736_gettyimages-90746311-2048x2048(1).jpg.a94af89dd575be221b75d88baa5af055.jpg

Abraham Solomon, 1854.


This is actually the 1855 revised version. In the original 1854 painting the young man is chatting-up the young lady while her father sleeps. However, it was so controversial Solomon had to repaint it so the father and young man were conversing and the ladies chastity remained intact!

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold
Mikkel

Posted (edited)

On 12/03/2021 at 11:59, ChrisN said:

Disclaimer:  I sound like an expert but I am not really.  Like most things with me my knowledge is fairly superficial, my comments have come from the observations of photos.  

 

Chris, many thanks for the insights. I wouldn't  belittle your knowledge from observation of photos. They can often tell you more about the reality of things than studies of policies, rules and period articles,  which tend to be based on principles and ideals, or the authors' personal interpretation.

 

 

On 12/03/2021 at 12:18, 5&9Models said:


This is actually the 1855 revised version. In the original 1854 painting the young man is chatting-up the young lady while her father sleeps. However, it was so controversial Solomon had to repaint it so the father and young man were conversing and the ladies chastity remained intact!

 

Ha, now that you mention it I can see it in her eyes!

 

 

Edited by Mikkel
  • Like 1
Link to comment
2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Ha, now that you mention it I can see it in her eyes!

 

I reckon she preferred the first version too! :D

  • Funny 2
Link to comment
  • Members

May I just take my hats off to you gents at your abilities to modify your figures.  As one struggling to paint my two 1970's ModelU figures, endlessly touching-up errant spots from previous colours, I have no idea how Mikkel manages to manipulate facial hair as well! 

 

Sorry I have missed the above postings.  I will try and reset my 'notifications' and return to read the contributions in more detail a.s.a.p.  Best wishes and thanks in haste.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold
On 11/03/2021 at 13:43, Mikkel said:

This discussion prompted me to have a look at the clothing shown in contemporary paintings. Of course, they are rather biased, aiming for that "wow" effect.

 

 1282705736_gettyimages-90746311-2048x2048(1).jpg.a94af89dd575be221b75d88baa5af055.jpg

Abraham Solomon, 1854. Source: Getty Images (embedding permitted).

 

gettyimages-90746142-2048x2048.jpg.8ba71bc56e67a7e8a0bd46a5b5574cf8.jpg

Abraham Solomon, 1855. Source: Getty images (embedding permitted).

 

Holl_(after_Frith)_The_Railway_Station_colorized.jpg.1b2b2b8a4e72820049ebaf87af39b0d2.jpg

William Powell Frith: "The railway station" (Paddington). 1862. Source: Wikimedia Commons. Large version here.

 

Some photos from my family albums - doubtless dressed up for the photographer. They date from the 1860s, with some later ones. There are other albums in the folder with photos from the first half of the 20th Century. http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/album/1276568

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
  • RMweb Gold

An interesting collection, thanks for sharing that Phil. It's a good idea to upload these on the web for a broader audience and future generations, I hadn't thought about that. 

 

I like the photo of Mr Dutheridge and dog. The photos from your grandfather's collection feature some interesting potential for architectural modelling. Chepstow bridge with Brunel's bridge behind it, not least!

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
On 09/03/2021 at 15:39, C126 said:

 

I am much obliged to both of you for the 'Grandfather's...' and 'Dickens's...' refs., and heartily recommend both 'Images of Lost London' and 'Panoramas of Lost London' - neither cheap but worth every penny.  Clothes took a long time to die: the toffs passed them on to their staff, who sold them on to clothes merchants, which ended up in Petticoat Lane, and eventually they were worn in the slums of St Giles, or shipped out to the Empire.  Most women of all classes wore both corsets and crinolines (and later bustles instead of the latter).  I am rushing this at work, but can recommend several yards of books of contemporary accounts, and especially the wonderful 'London In The Nineteenth Century' by Jerry White.  There are refs in the latter that will keep you reading for the rest of your life, should you be so distracted.

 

Sorry, can post more inspiring titles later if of interest.

 

I purchased a copy of 'Lost London' at not too exorbitant a price, half the original I think.  Now being a Lundun lad I find it fascinating, as I have walked some of these streets, and even driven around some of them.  Some have gone completely, others just the buildings have changed, or not.  I will get my lads to look for a copy of the volume on the East End for Christmas, somebody must have taken a picture of my dad, surely?

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.