rodger5591

Many thanks Tony. Just what I need. All the best Rodger

Thanks for the reference Ian. Very useful. I decided to have a go at 2796 which is now at Didcot (https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/146/no-2796-collett-siphon-g/9daa0fc1ed60979300f338b7d291a396), so I have emailed them to ask if they can help with information on the vents. For outside frame siphons, Tatlow's "Historic Carriage Drawings", volume 3 is a good reference. On the gas lighting issue, I suppose the safest option is to build one from the lots that never had gas lighting fitted at all. As to photos, I don't usually photograph anything, but you never know. all the best Rodger

I am about to start modding a pair of Lima Siphons (G, inside frame) and have found quite a lot of helpful information here on RMWeb and in other places from people who have already done it. However I would like to make one of them the version that had roof vents added but have been unable to find a template or pattern to follow (I don't have access to the reference book on Siphons). Some of the photos I have seen of kit built Siphons with roof vents seem to have a different pattern to those in prototype photos, although it's hard to be sure, given the angle and quality of the photos. I am modelling the post war BRITISH RAILWAYS period, so many prototype photos are not helpful for underframe detailing as they are either "as built" or mid-late BR, or of modern restorations to an undated condition, but I assume roof vents stayed the same once they were fitted. So my questions: Was there more than one pattern of roof vents ? Can anyone refer me to a website or reference that provides a pattern in 4mm scale Additional question I have seen some photos of upgraded/modded Hornby outside-frame Siphons running on BR period layouts, but still with all the fittings for gas lighting. Did the gas fitted Siphons really remain gas lit until withdrawal (or at least not have the fittings removed)? Many thanks Rodger

I'm afraid it's all been taken care of now. I should have updated the thread a while back but I forgot about it. Sorry about that. all the best Rodger

Thanks to everyone who has been kind enough to express their sympathy. I have submitted a list to Rails of Sheffield and am waiting for them to get back to me. If I have to send anything abroad, I would prefer to dispose of everything in one go if I can. Sending the whole lot in bulk via a shipping company is much cheaper and more reliable than the Post Office, and of course less troublesome than multiple small packages. If the Rails offer doesn't cover the cost of postage, then I will have to reconsider what to do next. I will update the post when I hear from them. Rodger I should add that the layout is steam era set in 1948

If anyone who lives in Thailand would like to pick up some 00 gauge RTR and kitbuilt stock (185 locos, 135 coaches, 400+ wagons, a few unbuilt kits), as well as all that goes into building a layout and the tools/items needed for kitbuilding/detailing of loco/coach/wagons, please contact me. Age has caught up with me and its time to go home. I would rather give the stuff away to someone who wants it than dump it. A list of rolling stock is available if needed, but not for all the scenics / spares/ tools / paints / transfers etc.

Not sure how far you want to go (or spend), but here are some suggestions. The Comet Royal Scot detailing etch is worth considering. It is for a rebuilt Scot, but the cabs were not rebuilt so can also be used for parallel boiler scots. Some of the other details are useful, especially the front frame extensions and guard irons. See https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/lms-rebuilt-royal-scot-detailing-fret-ls75/ Alan Gibson provide the correct Fowler backhead, dome and chimney as well as the unusual cylinder draincocks used on Scots and Patriots The Comet cab makes up very easily, but the backhead and roof are not included, so you would need to reuse the Mainline ones or scratchbuild. They also do a similar 8F detailing etch which gives you a Stanier cab useful for other Mainline/Airfix LMS loco detailing projects. SEFinecast might sell you a cab roof and backhead as one off items out of their Scot kit (they also do the correct Fowler whistle) Rodger

Hi Tony Slight correction to the name in the email address and link you gave - its 'Reticule' rather than "Reticulate" Rodger

Regarding kit instructions, this is perhaps an area where RMWeb could provide a service similar to Wikipedia, with a 'kit instructions' section for members to edit/comment. The kit manufacturers would need to give permission for their original instructions to be posted, then as members' comments are made/edits suggested, these could be captured as edits to the post of the original instructions in a different font/text colour, referencing the post number below. Things like a parts list, exploded diagrams, prototype notes etc could be added if they were missing from the original. Perhaps in the future, instructions for new kits could be "crowd-sourced" is this way, with the test build being posted and then the rest of us helping to develop the instructions as we do our own builds.

Hello Tony. Bertha certainly is looking the business. It clearly is a kit for experienced builders only, but sadly no longer available. I'm glad I decided not to have a go at it after all. all the best Rodger

Its a good design and easy to set up, like all Lanarkshire products. The only problem I had was that the track cleaning cloths catch on the unengaged point blade when going into pointwork, causing a derailment. You need to change the cloth fequently, as when it becomes slack or frayed, it can also catch on gaps at rail joins, especially insulated rail joins, which can easily be slightly uneven. Not sure if others have had these issues and could all be down to my own poor modelling skills. RD

After 1927, the positioning of L-M-S on the tender varied, mainly to avoid them being placed over rivets, which lead to early fraying. On rivetted Fowler tenders, it was impossible to avoid rivet lines and maintain the general rule of M over the centre axle and L/S spaced equally on either side, so the M was offset from the centre, and L/S spaced accordingly, but also avoiding rivets. There is a good picture of the variations in Essery and Jenkins LMS Locomotives volume 1 on p196, and a photo of 2979 and tender on p161. Before 1927, lettering was generally placed to achieve overall horizontal and vertical proportionality, which meant that the rivet lines were ignored.

This may also be of interest http://www.genesiskits.co.uk/photo-gallery/

Between 1958 and 1960, 42 Fowler tenders were transferred from Jubilees to 8Fs and 4 from unrebuilt Patriots. The transfers were a mix of rivetted /flush welded, beaded/unbeaded types, so photos would be needed for strict accuracy. During this period, some 8Fs also got high sided Fowler tenders, Stanier 3500 gallon tenders and and even some rebuilt Johnson/Deeley tenders. Most carried these exchanged tenders to withdrawal. Perhaps Hornby are signalling a move of the 8F to the RailRoad range by putting a RailRoad tender behind it (and perhaps complete new tooling is in the offing?) The re-issue of the Royal Scots might suggest that the design problem with the motor retaining bracket has been addresssed. if it hasn't, Peter's Spares might find 2017 brings a pickup in sales for their brass replacement bracket.

Up to now, the only Fowler tender Hornby offers is the old tender drive version with the mechanism removed. The picture of the 2017 8F doesn't suggest that a new tooled Fowler tender is being offered. But the price for an 8F with the newer Stanier tender is the same as one with the old Fowler tender. @railroadbill I've spotted: R4794 and R4795 the ex LSWR 48' coaches in SR green. Whoo hoo! Grange with smaller tender 8Fs, one with Fowler tender (as there were 663 8Fs running in mid 1950s, that definitely plugs a gap)

Reissue of 3 models of the rebuilt Royal Scots (2 in LMS livery) - does this mean they have addressed the issue of the disintegrating motor retainer or is it still caveat emptor? Plus an 8F with what looks like the old tender drive Fowler tender used in the Railroad range - perhaps the 8F is now officially downgraded to Railroad, or is there a new policy of mix n match the ranges? A new series called "the last day" with a loco from each of the big 4.

I think that is one of the 1948 experimental dark blue variants. Some had the cylinder cloth painted blue and lined out as well. The final version of BR blue applied from mid-1949 was like this: http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/duchess.htm @Brocp: true that 6254 was lined out on one side only, as was the livery experiment on Jubilee 5594. Perhaps there were really 6 liveries being tested, inlcuding lined and unlined for both crimson and slate grey.

The Princess Coronations also offer modellers an excellent opportunity to capture many of the experimental liveries of both the LMS and BR. From April 1946, the LMS tested 4 possible liveries: 6221 and 6235 were given unlined satin black, 6222 was given straw-lined satin black and 6234 was given crimson-lined slate grey. The 4th experimental livery was put on Jubilee 5594 (straw-lined crimson). 6221 and 6222 carried their experimental liveries until 1950 when they got BR blue. From May 1948, 6227, 6230, 6231, 6232 and 6241 were given the BR experimental dark blue (most carried it until the early 50s) and 6244 was given the BR experimental light blue with white/black/white lining (carried until 1950), which with some changes, was the basis for the final BR blue. With this livery, 6244 also carried a 0.x version of the lion and wheel emblem, which was quickly rejected as the lion faded into the blue very rapidly and she was soon running with only the wheel and title of the emblem visible (interesting to model!) From Sep 1948, 6226, 6234 and 6246 were also given various early versions of BR lined black, which resulted in the final mixed traffic livery which was adopted in March 1949, as was BR blue for express engines. Uniquely, 6234 wore 2 experimental liveries - it went from 1946 experimental slate grey to 1948 experimental lined black, which it carried until it got BR green (1952) So if you are modelling 1948-50, your fleet could have up to 8 different liveries Source: LMS Locomotive profiles

There is also the pretty extensive 2 part series on LMS tenders by John Jennison in the LMS Review issues 1 and 2 (http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1908763094.php) RD

One company's misfortune is another company's opportunity! A good deal if the pony derailing problem is attended to as well, and even better if they are willing to buy back non-functioning locos from the public or trade them against a reduced price reconditioned one. I wonder how many Rails expect to sell at this price: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heljan-OO-GAUGE-266211-BR-BLACK-BEYER-GARRATT-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVE-WEATHERED-6O-/131951348679?hash=item1eb8e9cbc7 Mine still soldiers on bravely working its schedule and it is by far the best loco for hauling the weekly CMX track cleaning train, which involves a lot of forward/reverse running in and out of sidings and climbing a 1:50 gradient. Though I am mentally prepared to have to replace the motors myself one day, if (when) the need arises.

Tony W in post 11826: The notes state that only one of these vans had electric lights inside, so I've left the dynamo and battery box off this one. Hi Tony Admittedly the notes are open to interpretation (and the font is tiny), but they seem to imply that only one D86 was built with electric lighting, but "it is likely that all were converted to electric lighting after building". Nothing is said of lighting arrangements for the D87 variant of the kit. Interestingly the Chivers notes and the Isinglass notes for the Pigeon van differ over the position of the dynamo and brake cylinder, whether they should be both on the same (non ducket) side (Isinglass), or on opposite sides (Chivers). The Chivers notes also say that most of the Pigeon vans in later life were painted all over brown by the LNER, presumably during the war, thus losing their black ends. Would this have also been the case for the D86/87 vans too? Its a pity both Isinglass kits don;t have brake blocks supplied- not easy to fit them to rocking W-irons if the unit is already attached to the floor (at least for me) Rodger

I have a question about the running numbers for both BR (E150467) and LNER (150624) versions. Tatlow volume 4b p290 says that the 150xxx number series ran from 150920-69. Are these 2 wagons from a series that he has missed or are these random numbers from outside the series?( or have I misunderstood his table?) RD

Mine arrived today and also locked up on its first run. But I managed to find out why and seemed to have fixed it, which may be useful others with a similar problem. When I opened the box to get the loco out (always on a white cloth spread on the kitchen table to catch the loose bits these days), the right hand side sanding pipe was floating loose, which later proved to be significant. Looking at the right hand side motion, the leading crank pin screw head was jammed against the crosshead arm (drop link). I eased the combination lever forward with the tip of a scalpel, and the jam unblocked. However on the next revolution (in reverse), it happened again. So turned it over and noticed the slide bars on the left side were parallel to the cylinder, but on the right side they were bent out at an angle. Also the cylinder on the right was set at angle, with the lower edge much closer to the frames than the top. The pip on the sandpipe box is supposed to sit in a locating hole in the frame behind the cylinder, but there wasn't enough space to fit the assembly on the right side due to the lower edge of the cylinder being so close to the frame (which is presumably why the person assembling the loco just put it loose on the box - there was no sign of any glue on it). So the problem was a poorly fitted right hand cylinder, which didn't allow enough clearance for the leading crank screw coming out of the bottom of its travel when in reverse, compounded by an attempt to fix the jamming by bending the slide bars out at an angle to the cylinders. To try to fix it, I gently placed a small screw driver between the frames and the bottom edge of the cylinder, and eased the bottom edge of the cylinder out just enough to be able to slide the sanding pipe box into place and fix it with superglue. Once in place, the sandpipe box is wide enough to force the lower end of the cylinder into its correct position in the vertical plane. Back on the rolling road and no more locking up. I then eased the bent slide bars back to parallel and still no locking up. Its been running for about an hour now, in both directions, and seems fine (fingers crossed). In fact it runs so quietly I have to keep checking that it is actually still running and not jammed again.

Hi Dave. I know this is outside your area of interest as far as materials go, but I was wondering how feasible would it be to cast prototypically thin cab/tender doors, fall plates and loco front steps using thin latex/rubber, so that they flex out of the way on tighter curves. Possibly loco and tender brake shoes too, to allow shoe faces to be very close to the wheels without a risk of shorting. Rodger

Does anyone know when the last of the GER wooden cab roofs were replaced ? Yeadons part 11 says that 7212 and 7221 were withdrawn in 1944 still with their original cab roofs but doesn't say if they were the last. I model 1948 and bought the LNER version as I don;t like having to carve off smokebox numbers and remove heavily tampoed BR emblems to renumber if I can avoid it, but in this case I neglected to do proper research, as 7524 was withdrawn in 1936, and the LNER modified the cab roofs from 1933, so being able to renumber 7524 to something in 1948 condition is probably very unlikely. Anyone interested in a cab roof swap?