But the thing is, if faster services are not possible, then what exactly are we getting for the vast cost of HS2.
We're told its for capacity more than speed, but its being built for 225mph services and thats increased the cost of needing tunnels everywhere to keep it out of sight of local residents ... but why engineer it for that and all the tunnels if the trains aren't actually going to get there significantly faster than the existing 125mph tilting ones do? 15-20 mins quicker to Manchester or Liverpool isn't going to blow many folks socks off if it takes longer to get to the more limited stations that they stop at and you can guarantee tickets are going to cost extra ... for a 'premium' service that saves a handful of minutes.
Alternatively, if it had been built as a 125mph or even 140mph railway, would it still have needed so many tunnels and cost so much? While physically building for 225mph and 125mph might not cost much difference, but if 225mph means more needs to be done to approve the planning then thats greatly increasing the cost.
If we need capacity for freight then would a 75mph railway have been fast enough and either the new line used for expresses or leave them where they are on the WCML.