I.C.L. 11

Lion had just been restored to steam for that event; no petrol engine needed! You are thinking of Locomotion during the Stockton & Darlington centenary cavalcade.

Prototype photos - many detail close-ups and a few general views on flickr courtesy of the esteemed Jan Ford. Album link - https://www.flickr.com/photos/janfordsworld/albums/72157626333680696

Not yet. It's 16 months to the day since Hornby's cat out the bag announcement when they clamed they were already working on it and yet there's been no evidence of development except a poor sketch. Cards close to chest due to the rival model probably but it doesn't help their case. Accompanying the initial announcement with even one photo of, say, them measuring the real Loco would have been proof of some prior leg work and a project that isn't just all talk. Rapido, by contrast, have recently shown a running sample and were able to announce their models with the blessing of StudioCanal from the start which was proof or much prior work and dialogue on their part.

Yes and the latest Rocket mail train pack includes 'Treasurer' so a total of 7 first class carriage names produced to date for anyone who wants to collect them all. The point I'm trying to make is that they've already produced 1500 'Times' and 'Despatch' so why repeat these names which are incorrect for Lion's train when they could simply do the right ones. They were planning to produce 'Huskisson' at least for The Lady with a Lamp pack so why not for the L&MR centenary Lion?

The coaches ought to be Hornby's strong suit in all this, particularly since @rapidoandy has confirmed they won't be duplicated by Rapido. Lion was restored to steam and six coaches of the types produced by Hornby were constructed to form a complete 1838 "heritage" train long before the Titfield Thunderbolt movie was ever thought of. Very disappointing that Hornby have chosen to repeat themselves with two carriage names which are inaccurate for the L&MR centenary train that the newly announced packs represent. There is an often reproduced postcard photo showing the centenary train with the names 'Experience', 'Traveller' and 'Huskisson' clearly visible if you zoom in a little. Hornby have used this photo twice on the packaging and again on the web pages (albeit cropped) and still appear to have got the names wrong; incorrectly stating in the R4037 coach pack product info "The exhibition train was made up of ‘Lion’, plus three replica First Class coaches, ‘Times’, ‘Despatch’ and Experience’...". 'Experience' is a worthy inclusion in the pack as it has toured extensively with Lion since they were transferred to Liverpool Museums together with one of the opens and they remain in their care. 'Traveller' and 'Huskisson' are part of the National Collection and I strongly suspect Hornby are withholding those names in the hope of producing a Railway Museum edition Rocket pack in the future. Hornby should certainly know of Traveller's existence as it is the vehicle they measured and based their model on according to the photos in the Jan 2020 Engine Shed blog! I feel sorry for anyone who forks out for the full six coach train only to be fobbed off with two erroneous names.

The Rapido model is based on the 1929/30 Crewe rebuild of Lions remains for the L&M centenary when many missing parts had to replaced with guesswork replicas based on other locos or simply fantasy items (such as the brass "haystack" firebox cladding). A true L&M ownership Lion would be almost an entirely different model and full of conjecture as there are no contemporary drawings and some documented dimensions are contradictory. The different versions offered by Rapido cover only minor changes after 1930 such as the addition of a pressure gauge in the 1950s and some revisions during a final overhaul in 1980 for the L&M 150th.

The leading bogies on the Gilbow DMs incorporate an extension and peg to fit the supplied coupling bar just like the intermediate couplings. Certainly no NEMs. The Wedgelock coupler detail is clipped into place and looks like they can be removed to allow two Gilbow units to couple via the supplied bar. Any converter wagon just needs original buffers & couplings removed one end and replaced by a low level central buffer block with a peg to fit the hole in the coupling bar. Example of convertor wagon in use - https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/27614406615/ Some excellent closeups of the underside of a Gilbow DM in the linked thread showing the buffer/coupling moulding which is absent from the EFE Rail release. It's a poor show that Bachmann have left out completely this front end feature but I guess the hole in the chassis has been enlarged to clear the NEMs and the old detail may no longer fit.

Or got an unpowered battery loco from Radley and let the tube stock push it? Anyone wanting to run them purely as "hauled stock" behind a powered loco may be better off getting the original EFE Gilbow models and changing the wheels or bogies so they're free running. A set going for scrap has been created this way using old wooden open wagons as barriers. Part way down the page - http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb40.html I must say the Bachmann paint finish on the recent EFE Rail version looks so much better to my eye than the old Gilbow releases which suffer from quite thick paint fading the detail as well as being super glossy which doesn't help.

As an NRM fan with good memories of seeing 13079 at the museum I welcome the return of a Railway Museum range. It's nice to see a black 350hp but I think the Hornby tooling is unlikely to cover the differences on the very early locos such as small buffer beam lifting slots and wooden cabside window frames.

Newman Miniatures on Shapeways have a range of 3D prints. Hornby's L&MR open coaches are much better in terms of detail and price once to cost of wheels, paint, shipping (expensive) etc is added to the 3D printed items but Newman have other early locomotives and alternative rolling stock not offered by Hornby. There's an old plastic kit by defunct K's for Spanish Mataro coaches. It is also HO scale but the proportions of any early coach will always be on the small side when compared to more standard later types. Often available on ebay. (That link will take you to an ended auction but that user has been selling a trickle of them for years) You get two coaches per kit; a 1st class and a 3rd class. They're passable as Manchester & Birmingham and Stockton & Darlington to give a couple of preserved examples.

I haven't seen the film either and only heard of it with reference to Lion but it's available to rent on Amazon and curiosity may get the better of me soon. I think the consensus is not much screen time for Lion. Being a B&W film how can we know what colour the cover-ups actually were? Were they painted or just pasted over with paper for easy removal? Hope Hornby have done their research!

I feel the replica Liverpool and Manchester coaches included in 'The Lady With a Lamp' could be Hornby's strong suit in all of this as the only items not duplicated by Rapido's offering. They were built to run with Lion, not Rocket, and even Rapido's Lion product page has a classic photo of the loco at the head of them. It's interesting to see how the coaches' livery has been modified for the film and one can imagine the film crew hastily painting over the words 'Liverpool' and 'Manchester'. Hornby's description of the pack says "three L&MR First Class coaches, one of which was intriguingly unnamed" - the 'unnamed' coach actually being 'Traveller' (the one Hornby measured up at the NRM). I wonder why the other two got to keep their names for filming - possibly because the gold leaf would be more difficult to reinstate than the rest of the lettering but one anonymous coach was needed for close-ups. Personally I would rather have them in proper full livery.

Yes. Lady With a Lamp frames in the background of the Thunderbolt box and vice versa! But pastiches rather than original frames implying there is no permission to use anything from the actual films. The 2013 licenced Titfield pack had actual frames on the box.

Lion deserves to be known for more than just the film. I don't think it can even be said it assured her survival as we need to thank those who 'found' and restored her for the L&MR centenary for that and her survival as a historic curio was fairly secure after that, even if no film contracts ever came along. There would be no shame in Hornby offering their Lion simply as a loco rather than a film star.

I agree that "Trains on Film" appears to be purely a means of justifying the Titfield duplication. In fairness though, during the WOR March 2021 virtual show I seem to remember SK telling AY in interview that Lion will be part of a special range or words to that effect. I took this to mean an "era 1" range but it is likely that Trains on Film was already planned back then. How many people have actually watched The Lady with a Lamp? Never seen it but I would consider buying the set as I'd like Lion but those defaced L&MR coaches don't appeal. I'm surprised nobody has suggested Brief Encounter to continue the Trains of Film range with it's Stanier 2-6-4T, LMS suburban coaches and streamlined coronation all possible from the existing range to name a few.