Izzy

If you are prepared to stick to Farish bogie diesels and DMU's then quite easy and simple using those parts produced by the association. They suit any Farish from the Poole era up to the latest spec to arrive. If you are not sure which to use then just ask on the VAG, ZAG, or here. There aren't drop-in sets for Dapol diesels at present, but I have read that some individuals are working towards producing these for the future. Bob

Not so far as I know Rich. I have just got around to reading the last Magazine newsletter where it is listed as one of those at the Derby 2mm Expo. For a brief second I wondered how the heck they knew I was going to build another layout and it's name before I did! 😀 Bob

I have just discovered that Alan Whitehouse has a 2FS layout call Exchange Sidings. I don't know how I missed this. Mine will never leave home but I think I will have to devise a new name so as not to cause any confusion via this thread. For the present I will simply add 'East' in brackets on to the end until I can come up with something else. Bob

Forgive me but I'm afraid I believe the 19.75mm figure is wrong. I have always generally gone with the minimum 22mm needed clearance figure. This is based around the 17.67mm btb plus 4mm i.e. two nominal wheel widths at 2mm, which AGW/Sharman/Ultrascale usually are, so 21.67mm. You can reduce wheel width to 1.8mm according to the published standards and I had to do this with my Hornby J15 conversion, which then gives 21.27mm, but again you need a lathe to do this...... and it would still be a very tight fit ....... It seems you can move the sideframes out to overcome this issue, but I'm wondering how this would impact the outside crank clearance. Move the cranks out and you could have platform clouting issues ....... it's all good fun.... Bob

Both sound and non-sound decoders can have various numbers of functions which can usually be assigned to whatever function is required. As RTR locos have become more complex in this regard the number of functions on sound decoders has steadily risen, over 30 in a few cases, but no two locos may use them in the same way. As a result a lot of DCC systems are unable to work with these, some older ones limited to 12 or 20 functions (a few basic ones even less), and the complexity’s of trying to remember each locos individual functions means many users are now favouring glass screen systems of some kind, computer screen, phone, tablet, where the complete number of functions can be displayed at once if desired along with a description of what each one is/does. Not only that but with those such as the Z21 I have recently switched to you can also choose in which order to display them, arrange them to your taste. So it doesn’t matter what Fn number they are, you don’t have to try and remember them or work off a crib sheet, nor messing around re-mapping them to a different order. So enter them once in the order desired and it’s job done. Then just use them. Oh, and with the best systems you can also set each Fn to be latching or non-latching I.e. switch on/off or momentary push button. Bob

The Track Plan As the idea was just to use three points the basic track plan didn’t take too long to generate. There has to be, or I want there to be, a run around loop so I can use it with just one loco if I choose. So that means it’s that plus two sidings. But the actual formation has only just been decided after trying a few different designs in Templot. Printing them out, testing with rolling stock etc. It was only three sheets of A4 a time, so it wasn’t too onerous. In order to help decide the basic way it would all work I have drawn up a full plan of how I imagined the sidings would exist alongside the main line both sides of the bridge. I also imagined there was a low bank between the running lines and the exchange sidings after the overbridge. All rather contrived but it all helped to set the scene in my mind. I made the assumption all points would be trailing. There would be a fairly long headshunt along the running line, and the line to the cement works would come off the loop. This then bought up an interesting revelation as regards the operation of how trains arrive and depart the sidings. Which would depend on the direction they arrived from, and departed too. In the down they would be propelled backwards both in and out, while in the up they would be as you normally see, loco first. Two basic designs have been drawn up. One uses a twin arch bridge with the tracks thus well spaced and the other a single arch with the tracks in a pair. I placed stock on both in turn and couldn’t decide which was best, would be more likely to have existed in real life. The reason for the twin arch was the idea this might hide the fiddle yard better, make it not quite so obvious. With this plan I also spaced the sidings out at the minimum distance used for sidings of 15’2” (so 31mm) rather than the minimum standard 11’2” used for plain line tracks. After some consideration I’ve decided to go with this design. I like the twin/multiple arch approach which I have seen used to really good effect on other small layouts when used for the same purpose, as the scenic break. As this is meant to be something to play around with in terms of trying out odd new ideas, for the track I have toyed with using the new British Finescale 3D printed base turnouts alongside Easitrac for the plain line. However, historically plastic based track and I have not generally got along. Indeed it was struggling with plastic based OO RTL track in the late ‘60’s that first pushed me to try making my own track. At this time soldered construction using rail on pcb sleepers was the latest thing to arrive. I never looked back. In later times I switched to using functional chairs on ply sleepers. At first this was with whitemetal chairs but when plastic moulded ones arrived in the 1980’s I changed to using them. This has been in several different scales, all somewhat larger than 2mm. I have in the past tried using Easitrac chairs on ply sleepers for pointwork combined with plain line Easitrac but the smaller size meant it was a struggle for me at the time, the pointwork, and so I reverted to soldered construction using etched chairplates on pcb sleepers. I did that for all the track to keep it looking consistent and matching. I have kept meaning to give it another go, chairs on ply sleepers, and so I have decided this is the time to do just that. To see if I can find a way to make it work. Whether I can or not it will be good to give it a try. So it may be a while before there is another post dealing with the track construction….. Bob

The baseboard. This has been constructed from my now normal materials of mountboard and 5mm foamcore board but in a sandwich formation. It’s a new method of construction instead of multiple layers of mountboard. A layer of 5mm foamcore covered both sides and around the edges in mountboard. This produces a lighter but still firm baseboard and as usual is covered in a layer of cork. Since this was to be another single baseboard design I thought a cantilever style plug-in sector plate fiddle board could be tried. As this would also be serving as the run around I have made it with the idea all the tracks will be live and it will just be lined up by eye. I don’t want to have to faff around continually sliding locking bolts in/out for alignment and electrical connection when it’s part of the general action rather than just for train entry and exit from the scene. All the tracks being live isn’t an issue with DCC. I suppose a rotary control switch could choose a particular track but again it’s extra faff and I want to keep the sector plate as flat and simple as possible for storage. Just sit in or on top of the layout cover – more foamcore. That’s the idea anyway. The size is 30” to the rear of the bridge while the sector plate is now 20” in total length with the sector being 18”. Width is still 7”. The total baseboard depth is 2" with another 2" to the top of the pillars. Internal depth is 40mm, just enough to take my hacked servos This just pushes into place and will also make the electrical connections for the track feed. The main board is now 36” in total length to give a 6” bed for the sector plate to sit on. So this section is lower by the depth of the fiddle board. This is again a mountboard and foamcore sandwich, but the sector plate is 4-layer deep mountboard as is it’s mating section which butts up to the main board. The front edges overlap each other, the sector plate undercuting the mating over-cut, to keep the sector plate down i.e. to prevent it rising up and loosing vertical track/rail alignment. Both these are of course radiused to that for the 18” radius curvature. I marked and cut one layer, then used that to ensure the rest matched up. The over/under cut is 7mm with a 1-2mm clearance between them. The pivot is just a round headed brass wood screw. After initial cutting and fitting the lips were both sanded down a bit with aluminium oxide sandpaper to get a nice jerk free running fit that wasn’t loose. That would stay where put given the set-by-eye track alignment to be used. All seems well so far….the proof of the pudding will be......as they say The total length of the layout with fiddle fitted is 50" A bridge? Well what else to hide the exits. Contrived. Oh yes. But it will also help hide the pillars needed for the cantilever part. These hold down the sector plate so need to have enough strength to take the strain of the weight imposed. It is hoped the sector board can also cope with this aspect and not bend and sag past that 6” support base. As said this is all experimental. To see how it all works and copes given the lightweight nature of the construction. The pillars were of course set so the sector board just slides in between them. To keep both horizontal and vertical alignment. Made and fitted after the making of the sector plate as this seemed the easier approach. Done in two stages. The sides first, and allowed to harden off/set properly and then checked, followed by the parts that make the cantilever, that hold the board down. Again glued into place and given plenty of time to set fully. The board was pushed in/out every few hours during the day to make sure it stayed the same, that nothing shifted. My experience with this type of baseboard construction using these materials is that over time the glue joints and the materials themselves become stonger/harder/stiffer as the moisture lessens. As with any paper/wood based material. But working with mountboard and foamcore like this can allow easy construction given it’s done just using scalpels and rulers on a cutting board. Nice and easy indoors with little or no mess of any kind. Just a bit of patience on occasion while the glue fully cures off with some joints, so overnight with things like the cantilever supports. As ever a glue like Anita’s Tacky PVA has been found to be best. The Range now do their own version which seems the same. Ordinary wood glue type PVA is too slow and too wet/runny to work I have found. Allows parts to move out of alignment and so ruins whatever has been done, which then needs re-moving/re-doing and can wreck things altogether. Although it was used to stick the cork down. This is used because it makes a good top surface on which to lay the track I have found but also acts as a barrier to prevent any liquid such as the Woodland Scenics scenic cement used to fix the ballast in place affect the mountboard. Track design next time. Bob

Thanks Mark, although I do think 2mm wheels would look better. I may try them in the longer term, but this conversion is economic to get it up and running and sidesteps the gear clearance issue. Extending the axles would only be needed for cosmetic looks really. The wheel hubs extend a way back giving good support. Plus they are an odd size, around 1.2-1.25mm ** if I remember. Once I discovered that I didn’t bother going any further with that aspect. I could have turned some up, but I am very lazy sometimes when there isn’t an imperative to do something. But do note the bearings as below. ** just remembered why there was axle size differences. The middle axle -with the gear wheel - was the 1.25mm one. No doubt to ensure a good tight fit of the gear. Made shifting the wheels on it much more difficult too. They both had to come off to alter the bearings…. Yes, after I had turned and fitted the 0.2mm flanges to the bearings and then turned them inside out to extend them further out from the chassis, so the new flanges sit in the slots, I did wonder if just reversing the bearings would have been sufficient on their own. Not sure. But you do need something extra on the outside, just using them in the right way around isn’t enough as you so rightly point out. The hubs fall out of the bearings then at maximum sideplay. There is no doubt these are lovely designed and made models that run so nicely. There is one in the classifieds at the moment for £65. What a bargain! Bob

Exchange Yard Sidings It’s strange sometimes how the acquisition of an odd loco or piece of rolling stock can start the development of a layout. Having obtained an NGS Hunslet industrial shunter my thoughts have naturally turned to what to do with it. I have long thought about making a small/micro layout to replace Odds End, (the test layout built around various bits and pieces I made when first starting in 2FS), that could be placed on my workbench. Something to do the odd bit of shunting on, test locos or stock when other layouts are not available and so on. And just have a bit of enjoyment making it. I then thought I would share details of it’s construction in case it encouraged others to consider trying their hand at making a small and simple, and not too expensive, 2FS layout. That the Hunslet body was blue started a line of thought about Blue Circle Cement locos and exchange sidings for cement works. I dug around for photos/info and read about the workings at the Blue Circle works at Claydon near Ipswich, the nearest location to me and one I had past many times during it’s working life. It was served by sidings off the main line north to Stowmarket and beyond, trip workings from Ipswich with coal for power and cement wagons and vans for the cement products produced. Needing to keep things small I decided that I could build an exchange sidings design based around the idea a resident Blue Circle shunter was used to transfer the wagons to the works, these being located a bit further away from the main line than was actually the case at Claydon. BR locos would of course bring and take them away, my thoughts revolving around the fact I had plenty of cement wagons, mineral wagons, and vans to use, along with a variety of green and blue era diesels. So the Hunslet has now been finished in erstwhile Blue Circle livery. I say this because details of their locos seem scarce, it seems they didn’t have many, and images are thus few in number. Of those found the liveries varied and so I finished it in a manner I thought it might have been had such a loco existed in the timescale covered, the ‘60’s to ‘80’s. When it came to having a name for the layout I decided that it had set that for itself. So it’s Exchange Sidings. As it had to sit on the portable workbench the overall length needed to reflect that. This had to include whatever fiddle arrangement was used. It couldn’t be very long so it balanced properly i.e. wouldn’t tip up when working the fiddle yard. Now I have long been an admirer of Ian Futers 3 point layouts and so wanted to try this with the concept of the fiddle yard sector plate acting as the ‘unseen’ half of the run around loop as is now quite common with small layouts. These ideas and requirements basically set the size of what the layout could be. To have a bogie diesel loco with around half a dozen wagons needs around 16-17”, so this set the sector plate length at 18” for a bit of wriggle room. I did consider using the diamond jubilee layout challenge size for the layout itself, roughly 9”x 24”, having played around designing the odd one or two in Templot, but it felt too short with perhaps more width than needed when it was just going to be a few lengths of roughly parallel track. So I set the desired width at 7” and the length at 30”. Apart from the width all these sizes altered during the construction of the baseboard and sector plate to make allowance for the actual design finally used. I’ll detail this next post. Bob

Z21 throttle app Having now used the throttle slider with a tweaked response curve I feel that using the phone is all I need. Just in case it might prove useful info for others here are a few details. This is the main throttle setting screen. If you set it to Normal then below is a edit curve option. This brings up this screen with four pre-set options of different curves at the bottom. With each one the individual dots can be moved, pulled around, to produce a bespoke version. I chose the second curve and then just altered the first two dots a bit. To use this edited version you just exit the screen using the 'return' arrow button top left. This 'saves' what you have set. If you click on any of the other curve options they all return to default. There is no way, well that I can see so far, to add an edited one as another saved version. This is the visible result. Using 28 SS - it's all I ever use, the first portion is just the initial few steps. So you get fine control of finger movement. 1SS 5SS This is set at 14 SS. It's 2/3rds of the slider movement. So the 14-28 steps have smaller movement where mostly it's not needed. With small layouts I rarely get above this anyway. I guess you could set a curve where the movement for the 14-28 is even less. So even more distinction for the lower ones. Whatever this seems a good setting option to have. Bob

Agree. Not so much discuss but sit back and enjoy for me. With them I did scrunch up my eyes and try and imagine it with the scenery completed. Looks wonderful….! Bob

Thanks, that’s useful to know. Until/if I manage to handle one I think I’ll probably hang fire on getting one so I don’t regret the purchase. Bob

I have just discovered the speed curves option in the normal slider position. A similar option to that of speed curves for motor control. That as well as the pre-set ones you can adjust any of them to suit. Stretching the lower values for finer control/ larger movement between speed steps is helpful I have found. I don’t want a tethered handset of any type but I have no idea how responsive the WlanMaus is with its rotary knob. Or even whether it’s a potentiometer or encoder one. It looks like it’s centre off so most probably the former. Bob

NGS Hunslet industrial conversion to 2FS Having acquired a NGS Hunslet and converted it to 2FS I thought I’d detail the basics for anyone tempted to do the same. It was an unexpected purchase but one that has proved worthwhile. A very nice loco for extremely reasonable cost at today's prices. The basics are that it shares many general design features with the other Farish locos featured in this thread, a coreless motor, split chassis current collection with pickup through the axle bearings, but also has a dedicated DCC decoder with stay-alive fitted and is able to run on both DC and DCC to choice. Here's the loco split down into it's main parts. You'll have to accept I only took this shot part way through the conversion. The axle bearings are the same size as those used in the Farish locos, so replacing the wheels with 2mm SA 2FS wheels/bearings/muffs produced for them is possible. The only drawback here is that due to the chassis design there is minimal clearance on the rear axle for the gear train, and thinning the muff is required. Coupling rods would need making up somehow if not reusing the originals, which it has to be said are chunky depth wise but very thin. I might try a ‘proper’ 2FS conversion this way at some stage in the future. However to keep things simple for now I have chosen instead to re-machine the wheels, thin the flanges to 0.3mm so they pass through 2FS flangeways. Because of the particular design of the wheels, different to the Farish which are mazak castings but similar to those used with the Sonic J50, it has been found that reducing them in overall width is not really feasible. As a result I used a small round nosed tool to just thin the flanges inwards towards the hub. A result of using the wheels at a wider b-t-b has been that the axle bearings need widening/moving outwards so the wheel stubs don’t fall out of them in any sideways movement. This has been achieved as I originally undertook with the Jinty by producing 0.2mm brass washers which were soldered onto the outer faces of the bearings, and then the bearings fitted into the chassis slots reversed, so the inside faces then become the outside. Re-machining the wheels also meant there was no cost to this 2FS conversion. Besides this I also made some changes to the loco body livery, and replaced the N couplings with DG’s. Cosmetically I decided to finish the loco as one owned by Blue Circle Cement. This was prompted by the blue finish of the body as bought. As the body is plastic and could be separated from the cast metal footplate, and the cab is a separate painted clear moulding, I took them apart and sprayed the footplate black all over. The nice handrails are easily pushed out of true with handling, so care must be taken when holding the loco. Mine came loose and careless attempts to secure them with runny cryno left blobs on the cab. So I removed them completely before spraying the footplate, stripped them of paint – they are N/S etchings – and painted and re-fitted them later. I then cleaned up the cab before putting all the bits back together. The Blue Circle logos on the cab side were printed onto white inkjet transfer paper sealed with ‘Ghost’ matt spray varnish. The yellow warning stripes on the buffer beams were more transfer paper, but given a coat of Revell enamel paint before cutting into strips and applying. Trying to inkjet print yellow just didn’t work. It was far too pale, just no colour depth, and almost unseen. A wash of dirty black was applied over the body to highlight the panel details etc. and further weathering with Rowney pastels to represent a coat of cement dust which it would undoubtedly have will be done when I get around to it. Bob

Yes, you can. Just press and hold down the Red 'stop' loco button. This will engage the circuit breaker/ short circuit as with a normal detected short. It will stay like this until you re-press/hold down this button which will then re-set the base/command station and return it all to normal.

Thanks Nigel, that sounds interesting, I did wonder if the handsets alone could connect this way rather than the whole system, which would mean yet another mains plug/supply which I wouldn't want. But the long term intention is probably to sell off all the PA2 bits anyway, the basic system, the wi-fi handset, the wi-fi adapter for tablet/phone, if there are any takers. At the moment I have just discovered the speed curve adjustment response for the throttle slider in the Z21 app which is proving interesting to use. Bob

Personally I think the Kinesis system would benefit from a different handset design. A smartphone screen type one instead of all the buttons but combined with rotary control for the actual throttle/speed. Don’t know whether that combination is feasible electronically, perhaps not.

A Z21 After thinking through all the aspects with regard to the recent posts concerning DCC track power levels, stay-alives with 16v tantalums, and the quite small decoders used in 2mm I decided to take advantage of the special price my nearest local Railway Model Shop sells the Roco Z21 at and paid them a visit and obtained one. This is Scograil and they share a outlet in Ipswich with Coastal DCC and Orwell Models. My Gaugemaster/MRC Prodigy system has thus been withdrawn from use and put into reserve status for the immediate future. It’s served me well for 14 years. I had the Z21 up and running in about 15mins and is being used with a cheap dedicated 6.5” android smartphone, a Redmi A1, as the throttle. This was obtained last year from Currys for £59 and so this new combination has cost about the same as I originally paid for the basic Prodigy PA2 in 2010. Whether I will invest in a Wlanmaus handset as an alternative with rotary control is moot. Apparently it can’t share the same loco database, which is a significant drawback. But it’s an option to consider. So the track power is now set at 12v. I also intend to set the Circuit breaker trip at the best level for 2mm, if I can work out what that should be. At the moment I’m spending the time entering all the locos into the database. This is taking a while but having photos and description to select which one to use is I find very helpful compared to having to remember each locos DCC address. Another advantage of using a phone/pad as the throttle is in having a description of every function assigned to each loco for ease of selection. My iphone and ipad will get the layout/loco databases as both a backup and as alternative throttles when needed. These are easily transferred between devices over wi-fi. Bob

Yes, I see that now. In which case seeing as it's a pre-DCC ready chassis it's really a case of going back to the start and re-doing everything again. With only four wires/connections it has to come back to the fact the body is breaking one of those connections when it's fitted, or is causing one of the motor feeds to touch the chassis. That can be goodbye to the decoder so must be avoided at all costs. As the track connections are being made by connecting the black/red feeds to the chassis screws I'd check them first. The plug is plastic so it may be preventing constant connection under pressure. But also make sure those soldered connections to the motor can't press against the chassis in any way. The wire insulation stripped back too far. Often these problems can be the silliest little thing. Bob

The NGS Hunslet is now 2FS and in a different guise after a bit of painting and a few home brew transfers. It could probably benefit looks wise from association wheels and different coupling rods but in normal use they don't show too much. I'll post a bit more on my RTR conversion thread for anybody interested. Bob

Is this a Wi-Fi controller that's playing up and not a wired one? That has it's own on/off slider switch to preserve battery life when not in use. If it is playing up, not making proper contact anymore, I would think that is a very easy fix one way or another. The only other switch is the main on/off slider one on the base/command station. Bob

If these are 6-pin decoders then it can help ensure contact in the socket by bending/putting a kink in the pins so they are a firm fit. As said it could be the body is pressing on the decoder enough to break contact with one of the pins. If it is pressing on the decoder also make sure it's not able to press it against the metal chassis or the pcb. Some tape between the decoder and the chassis/pcb etc. can be a good idea for insulation in case this is the issue. Bob

Circuit Breaker

I fully understand that for most users the default settings for track power and CB will work just fine, and I'm grateful for the comments. However I actually chose the Z21 with the express purpose of using lower track levels and - hopefully - lower amp ratings for the CB. I presume the fast setting trips at a lower amp level. It's the parameters of the latter that I would like to find more details of. This is in connection with a subject that I won't expand upon here. So in this respect it's an experiment that might or not prove of benefit to me, only time will tell. What I can say is that irrespective of that I already find that obtaining the Z21 is not something I regret. That I got it for less than I paid for the Prodigy all those years ago was just a bonus. I actually picked it up in person from my nearest/local railway model shop, Scograil, who retail them for a special price. They are in the same unit as Coastal DCC and Orwell Model railways in Ipswich so it's very handy. Bob

Yes, thanks, I have tried to read up all I could find on the system. Both before I obtained it, just to make sure I was making the right choice, and since. Much of the emphasis seems to be on getting things all connected up in the first place. This I found very simple and easy. Up and working in 5-10mins with either the cheap dedicated android phone I bought to use just as a throttle (Redmi A1 £59 Curry’s) or my iPhone/ipad. I will contact Roco with my query re the short circuit setting, thanks for the suggestion. It would be nice to know for just reference if nothing else. Bob