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pinzaboy

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    Clarification on copyright please

    in Wheeltappers

    Posted

    Hi

     

    Over the years I've purchased photographs at swap meets, shows etc and wondered if was OK to share these images on Facebook?

    Generally speaking, there is no information at all on the reverse although one or two might have a name.

     

    Some photos are clearly originals sold as part of someone's old collection; others appear to be run off a ngative in quantity.

     

    I don't wish to breach any copyright so I would welcome any advice.

     

    Thanks in advance 

     

    Tim

    Bass Charrington grain wagons - where did they operate?

    in UK Prototype Questions

    Posted

    46 minutes ago, davefreight said:

    From old TOPS records known loading points for these grain vans when in main line use were Mistley and Ipswich, both RW Paul at Ipswich Docks and Ipswich Maltings at Ipswich Griffen Wharf, but there could have been other loading points in East Anglia.  I have a notion that by 1976 they were lettered 'To Work Between Eastern Region and Burton-on-Trent'.  In all these flows to Burton they worked alongside similar BR Grain Vans.

    Thanks very much

    Tim

    Bass Charrington grain wagons - where did they operate?

    in UK Prototype Questions

    Posted

    29 minutes ago, Colossus said:

    Glad to help Tim. The main thing to remember is "Bass Charrington" as a name only came into being in 1967 so accurate portrayal of that model is after this date. And as I said, it was ironic it was the date that Bass effectively closed its railways and went almost entirely on to the road. But they were a huge brewing concern and such was the massive demand for malt in their brewing, Shobnall continued to be supplied with bulk barley by train for about another decade using wagons like these.

     

    Someone above mentioned Sleaford Maltings. This enormous maltings was built by Bass in 1902 but efficiencies in malt production such as moving from 'floor maltings' to mechanised drum maltings meant Bass closed Sleaford by 1959. Bass also had maltings at Retford and Lincoln and a contract with a maltings in Grantham in the earlier 20th C and numerous different maltings around Burton. But Shobnall was destined to be their key facility . So high was the demand from Bass for barley from the 1860s onwards, many locations in counties from Lincolnshire south to Essex supplied barley destined for Burton. Even after 1967 when the newly formed national brewing group Bass Charrington's malt production was centred entirely on Shobnall, the quantity of barley required was colossal and the contents of those Bass Charrington grain hoppers will have been drawn from all over East Anglia. I'm not sure where it was centralised at, i.e., where the wagons were loaded.

     

    As an aside, malting used to be seasonal and to cope with the heavy work of turning grain on maltings floors, Burton used to have an annual influx of seasonal labour from eastern England. Nicknamed 'Norkies' by the Burtonians, they will have certainly travelled from areas associated with barley production and many of these will still have been barley areas in the 1970s. In the decade 1890-1900, Bass engaged workers from locations such as: Woodbridge, Bury St Edmunds, Ipswich, Halesworth, Mildenhall, Bungay, Newmarket (Suffolk); Harleston, Swaffham Diss and Thetford (and others) in Norfolk and one or two places in Essex such as Mistley and Manningtree.

    Amazing information - really interesting.

    Thanks so much for taking the time to expand on the arrangements that were undertaken.

     

    Tim

    Unusual diesel workings

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    48 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

     

     

    I wonder if you have mistaken Boston for Spalding, as 4S37 (the down working, despite the A4/4A class 33 headcodes) would have passed through there on a daily basis SuX,  (I saw it regularly between Sleaford and Spalding in 1968) but I have never heard of it going via Boston which would have been a very long way round. 

     

    1968 is a strange year for the Cliffe-Uddinston trains; because although the northbound working travelled via the GN&GE as booked in the WTTs, the up working which was 4O30 went via the ECML. 

     

    You must have seen the down working which was due through Spalding at around 0900 in that year, but often ran late.

     

     

    Thanks for that info.  I am very grateful.

    From memory the station concerned had 4 lines going through. (2 platform lines and 2 lines through the middle; the 33 came through the middle).

    Tim

    Unusual diesel workings

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    1 hour ago, stovepipe said:

    Maybe taken off a Cliffe - Uddingstone cement working, diverted via the joint line. The Crompton(s) worked regularly as far as York throught the 60s, before Type 4 power took over. The headcode was shown either as 4A or A4 on almost all photos of the working.

     

    Thanks for that info. Very interesting.

    I'm pretty sure it was light engine but it was a long time ago and I could be wrong. 

     

    Tim

    Unusual diesel workings

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    Hi All

     

    Here's something I've always wondered about. When I was 11 my dad took me on a trip from Newcastle to Sheffield. Then to Boston. Lincoln next then Peterborough and home. (According to my note book). It was second week of August 1968. 

     

    I clearly recall seeing blue class 33 D6566 with headcode A4 at Boston. 

    I always thought that was an unusual thing and now, seeing this discussion, thought someone might be able to advise if this was as unusual as I thought it was!

     

    Thanks

     

    Tim

    Bass Charrington grain wagons - where did they operate?

    in UK Prototype Questions

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Colossus said:

     

     

    Hi Tim,

     

    I think I can flesh out this a bit and correct a couple of earlier remarks. Vehicles of this type were originally purchased by Bass (and Worthington)  for 'internal user' use in the 1950s to transport finished brewing malt from the garners in various maltings to the breweries, all in various areas of Burton. The first ones bought in 1956 and more in 1959 were built by Hurst Nelson and later, another eleven (numbered Bass 12-18) and Worthington now 3-6) came from Charles Roberts. At this period they were in grey livery. I'm guessing no 23 modelled, was from a yet later purchase. Previously, handling of barley (for malting) or finished malt was moved around the Bass Worthington system in ex MR vans, first in sacks and then using converted interiors.

    The thing that dates this model is the name "Bass Charrington"- this was Britain's biggest brewing group and was formed in 1967 (Charrington United Breweries merging with Bass M&B). It's a key date as it was also the year the Bass railway system was abandoned and dismantled - all apart from the line from the main line into Shobnall Maltings. Shobnall in the north- west side of Burton was their biggest and fully mechanised maltings facility and where all production of malt made from barley for the group became concentrated at.

    So even though, to all intents and purposes, Bass abandoned their rail use in (July) 1967, and the extensive rail system around these maltings was heavily cut back, the road from Leicester Jn (half a mile south of Burton station) into Bass' Shobnall Maltings was kept open to continue taking barley by rail as we went into the 1970s. Various locations in east Anglia had always supplied the vast majority of barley for Bass -this didn't change just because Bass abandoned its internal railway. So your van belongs to the 1967-78 period and was used solely for transporting barley, for malting, from various east Anglian destinations, into Bass' Shobnall Maltings. Ironic as Bass Worthington group (as it was in the 1950s until 1961) had obtained these vans for 'internal user' - yet they ended up bringing barley fron eastern England to Burton main line.

    I've seen one picture of a train of grain arriving at Shobnall in the mid 70s behind a class 31 - the pic may have been in "Power of the 31s" ( which I don't own a copy of) but I could easily be wrong - it could be elsewhere. I saw it flicking through second hand books at an exhibition. I believe a class 08 was employed at Shobnall to shunt the vans, presumably from the exchange sidings. 

    As an aside, in "The Railways Around Burton upon Trent" [H N Twells], is a pic of similar 20t grain vans being shunted into Ind Coope brewery (close to Burton station) as late as 1978. This was a separate company but shows barley (or maybe already malted barley) was still arriving by rail late 70s. After that all grain transport went into the road.

    Hope this helps Tim.

     

    Richard.

    Thanks very much Richard.

     

    That info is very interesting and helps me understand how these wagons were used.

     

    Regards 

     

    Tim

    Intermodals Weathering

    in Weathering, Painting & Transfers

    Posted

    Thanks for the pics!

    Some good weathering on those. 

    I often wonder what the insides of these containers are like and if they are ever cleaned. 

    I once rented a van and it had been used for carrying restaurant waste. It was grim.  I bet some of those containers are also appalling inside. 

    Regards 

    Tim

    • Like 1

    Were there any passenger services that ran with top and tail diesels in the 60s/70s?

    in UK Prototype Questions

    Posted

    Hi All

    As the original poster it has been really interesting reading all the knowledgeable responses.

     

    To clarify my question, I had meant top and tail in the sense that the leading loco would be the only one under power. The rear loco would just be trailing.

     

    I've learned an awful lot from the replies on top and tail/push pull and am grateful to all who have given their responses.

     

    Tim

    • Like 1
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