Brassey

A GEM Precursor appeared on eBay yesterday but it had gone by the time I got home. Don’t know which tender it has but suspect BC. The Brassmasters kit used to have the option for a Whale tender but BM can no longer supply the cast top. The later BC tender had no coal rails and different cutouts in the underframe and was introduced for the Georges. There are later pics of Precursors running with such tenders. Depends on your period. Talbot’s book has drawings right at the back.

Getting hold of a kit for a Precursor with a Whale tender is a bigger challenge!

You’ll need to change the safety valve on that Coal Tank too…

Hi Jol, excuse the dumb question but what are these and do I need any? Peter

I got mine from the previous incumbent at 247 Developments when he sold LNWR items. He didn't address the roof issue as, the last time I looked on the box, the kit is devoid of a roof! I've since acquired a Modellers World version which is probably from the same artwork as the erstwhile 247 Dev. one.

I've finally started to build one of these for my LNWR/GWR joint layout. I used a David Geen 6w underframe from the spares box discarding the stretchers that came with the Mallard kit. The axle box castings are from the same source. I utilised a Brassmasters Cleminson underframe though the LRM one would have done too as it has the correct wheelbase. I botched the gas cylinders to get them in but I don't know if these vehicles had them. There should be a brake cylinder too: can't find a drawing.

There are no diamonds on the LNWR wagons livery which makes it quite late. Definitely post 1912.

I’ve used diluted Dettol with some good results both on plastic and whitemetal.

That looks like John's terminus version...

The L&NWR instructional booklet "The Handling of Goods" June 1911, by the aptly named Chief Good Manager C E Greaseman, does not describe how to sheet but does offer some insight: "Care must be taken that the sheets are sound and that they cover the whole of the load and are securely fastened down. If one sheet is not enough use two, and see that the overlap is to the rear of the train." And elsewhere: "Empties liable to catch fire must always be sheeted." - in this instance I think "empties refers to empty casks, churns; things that might have contained paint etc. Knowing the L&NWR, they probably produced a handout on how to attach sheets which may be in the L&NWR Society archives.

BTW a Precedent with 6’ 6” wheels is a Whitworth or small Jumbo.

It will run a lot better when you couple the wheels as that aids traction. Suggest you do that before anything else.

You can use a valve gear rivet instead of a pin.

Thanks for the interest. I need a 32foot LNWR Post Office to run in the Hereford-Tamworth Post Office Service as No. 12 which always ran attached to No33. (I've had the 8wheel bogie TPO No.33 etched by Worsley Works from a drawing supplied by Philip Millard) As far as I know, nobody has marketed a LNWR 6wheel TPO in 4mm. BUT, the LNWR later took two of these vehicles and put them together to form a 64foot TPO. Oddly Stevensons Carriages produced such a model of which I think there were only 2 built. So I acquired an etch of the 64footer from Squires who now market the Stevensons range and took my trusty shears/tin snips to it and chopped it in half. The other half is destined to become another 6wheel TPO ie the York to Cardiff mail. The underframe is a LRM 32foot Cleminson which they sell separately. The LNWR 42foot break third in the back of the pic is also a Stevensons etch that I got at the same time. Philip Millard produced a series of articles in the LNWR Society Journal on TPO's from which I have gleaned much information. Unfortunately there was no drawing of No.12 only a description. A number of these LNWR 32ft 6wheel TPO's ran across the network including the WCJS. One WCJS example is preserved at the NRM York The other 6wheeler in the photo on my shelf is a 32foot Parcel Van. Again, as far as I can tell, nobody has ever sold a 4mm model of a LNWR 32foot Parcel van though they have a 30foot one i.e. David Geen. I acquired this particular etch on eBay but don't know it's source. It has the initial MW on it so could originate from Modellers World and been a test. I was going to use this as a substitute for No. 12 until I came up with the other brainwave. It does have its own underframe but I replaced the underpinnings again with parts from an LRM 6wheel Cleminson chassis. If you want to try the same on the Stevensons etch, here is the Squires website pricelist: Diagram D83. They are very good at supplying spare parts and etches. There are some other interesting kits there that I also have; my period is 1912 so includes Cove and Elliptical roof coaches. http://www.squirestools.com/files/SC Retail Price List.pdf

Having not posted here for a couple of years, here's some work-in-progress. A couple of 32ft LNWR 6wheel vans. The top is a Postal Van and the lower a Parcel Van. I'm quite fond of vans as one can guess from this thread mainly because they pose less of a challenge for lining. Not so the 42foot LNWR arc roof corridor break third just sneaking into the picture

In his pamphlet to the Junior Engineering Society read January 9th 1896, G. J. Churchward stated about brake composites: “A great development has taken place in recent years in the provision of ‘through carriages’ enabling passengers to travel between widely separated points over different Company’s lines without change of carriage. Such carriages are now run between Plymouth and Glasgow, etc., through the Severn Tunnel, and the necessity has arisen for a coach carrying first, second and third class passengers, together with their luggage, and a guard.” So there was already a precedent of developing carriages for the North to West route before Churchward took over from Dean. Chruchward's Dreadnaughts first appeared in 1904 and "toplights" 1907 whereas the longer (57 foot) Cove roof coaches replaced the arc roof on the LNWR from 1903. When these first appeared on the NtoW route I do not know but the period I model, 1912, was quite a transition. Interestingly, the prestigious trains that started out at Manchester and/or Liverpool with these new carriages no longer had a separate luggage van in the consist but would have a brake third of composite leading. The 9:10 am from Liverpool Lime Street even had a GWR Dining car which ran all the way to Plymouth returning at 12:32pm the next day!

My view is that the carriage diagrams specified '57' in 1912/1913 to identify the more modern stock for the prestigious trains rather than older clerestory stock; I don't think it had anything to do with restrictions. Having said that, the '70' stock was only used on the Birkenhead line and not into Crewe so that might have been a restriction. Certain GWR PBV's were banned on the LNWR because a ducket on one apparently hit a bridge at Crewe. You often see in the diagrams "wingless" van specified. I recall reading something somewhere by OS Nock that the toplights were created for the North to West route as the contemporary Dreadnaughts and Concertina stock were too big for that line.

Well on with the scenic board at the southern (Hereford) end of the layout. The layout gets progressively narrower and this board is down to 21cm where it butts up with the non-scenic/fiddleyard boards. Not too sure I'll have room to add the pond as discussed earlier but the embankment will be a good scenic viewing point. Track is all on a cant so is taking a while to work out and get right but now have finally laid the cork underlay ready for track laying:

Yes that was the subject of the original thread but I managed to post this in the wrong one. This is the correct one:

Now I didn't exactly say that LRM had a Precursor did I. That's something that's been mis-concluded. So to immediately quash any false rumors that LRM have one, what I meant was that JR had acquired a Brassmasters kit of a Precursor. Don't know if his has the Whale tender conversion kit.

Thanks very much Jol. Sorry for posting in the wrong thread! I too have an Experiment kit which also purportedly has a Whale conversion kit and between the 2 I have only one set of instructions to build the Cooke tender only. I’m also missing one Whale cast whitemetal top. I’ve contacted Brassmasters. Don’t know if they’ll have one. Might mean my Experiment will have to run with a George tender. A little bird told me that John Redrup also has a Precursor kit. Be great to see both London Roads running.

Hi Jol, going right back to the beginning of this thread, can you remember if you had any instructions for the BM Whale tender conversion? I’ve finally got round to building mine but have no instructions. Peter

This is my Bulldog Bird class from a Falcon kit bought from that source...

I think you’ll find that the track is hand-built. One of the benefits of building your own.

This is the whole of the layout now but it is not intended to stay in the current location! 3 of the original scdenic boards are included. These are the black facia ones in the photo. One board has been omitted which was a transition board to straighten the curve when there was a fiddleyard at each end. I still have this board in case I want to revert. A scenic board has been added at the Southern end (as discussed previoiusly) which will be on an embankment. Another scenic board has been added at the Northern end to complete a sem-circle. This is intended to be a diorama as I've always wanted to build a viaduct but there were none on the line so this is going to be a different location! There are 2 plain boards at each end to complete the 360 degrees. The main objective has been to produce a big enough fiddleyard area to form main line express trains. The maximum before, as an end-to-end, was about a metre; not enough for a 12 carriage train!