Brassey

I have generally followed Ian Rathbone's technique illustrated in both his book and video. Mike Trice has posted a few videos on Youtube showing coach lining too. The gold/yellow lining on GWR and LNWR pre-group coaches goes on the molding quadrant not the panel. The Crimson Lake lining above on the PBV does not have black on the molding so is quite unforgiving whereas the GWR choc/cream and LNWR have the molding lined too which helps. I use a bow/ruling pen with gloss paint onto a gloss painted surface. Gloss paint is easier to clean off when you make a mistkae whereas with matt the lining sinks in and is harder to wipe off. I have pens from Haff and also more recently Kern. These can draw fine lines. However I think the consistency of the paint is key. It needs to be quite thick. I have used Humbrol 7 buff which is what Mike Trice uses and was also advocated by Coachman ex of this Parish. The current Humbrol is probably too thin and I think the line spreads once applied. So I have acquired some PP Gorse Yellow which is what Ian Rathbone uses but am yet to try it. For the black I use Humbrol gloss black. All can be toned down after with varnish. On LNWR coaches I must give credit to Jol Wilkinson's article in MRJ on lining coaches. But I am trying to develop the same technique for both companies so have deviated from his. I do have some PP LNWR lining buff but also use Humbrol 9. Humbrol 9 is also used on GWR locos with some red added to create the orange lining. I guess if you can't get Humbrol or Phoenix Precision paints then it is a matter of experimenting and a lot of trail and error. I find gloss paint lines best for me but Jol uses matt. But always onto a gloss surface. All the paint I use is gloss enamel. Jol and others use cellulose car paints for the base. It has to be hard and allowed to dry. For the curved lines it is necessary to use a ruling compass to follow the curve and it is this that has given me the worst lines as per the Duke. I have recently acquired a Kern compass to replace the old school set I have used up to now but am yet to use it. Good ruling pens are hard to come by and I have found, like Ian Rathbone, that the ones with the shorter blades are best. I think Haff still have one for sale on their website which is where I got mine. I got my Kern from a friend. Otherwise it's look out on auction sites.

"Renown" itself was converted quite early; well that's my excuse for running it in 1912 anyway!

I've almost finished an old Jidenco Coal Tank with a London Road Models chassis. This follows a whitemetal K's one with the same chassis. Not too happy with the lining on that though. I also have an LRM Precedent to do.

The Locomotive Magazine, August 1909: "GREAT WESTERN RY. The large passenger engines are now allowed to work up and down to South Wales, via Gloucester. No. 2679, 2-6-0 mineral engine, has been fitted with Mr. Churchward's new pattern of super- heater. No. 2225, 4-4-2 tank, has been painted experimentally chocolate red with yellow lining, and black below the footplate. " Chocolate Red? I think RCTS has this loco painted "Crimson Lake". Are they the same colour?

Yes Mikkel I now realise the crests are a mistake. It needs a repaint anyway as I am not happy with the lining. The other side is even worse. The Duke needs some work on the lining too.

Good to see more P4 on here. Are you a member of the Society? Peter

GWR 4-4-0 Duke and 40' PBV on trial at Berrington and Eye. Both work-in-progress:

My interest in all this is piqued because I am currently building a rake of these coaches: a brake third, 2 x all thirds, a compo and an old K’s 40’ PBV. The latter and one of the C10’s in Crimson Lake. The formation has an LNWR Though carriage to London attached at the rear. As eluded to, I am struggling with the lining so attention has turned to the bogies. Incidentally the compo ran on 6’ 4” bogies. Mikkel you have reminded me of the poor reputation of the Slater bogies so I will try plan A and use Brassmasters torsion bogies. Peter

It's hard to tell but I think on this 40' PBV there are two garter crests; one under each GWR: It is attached to an LNWR corridor vehicle on a through train. PS: I would speculate that the horse box is also in Crimson Lake particularly as the white roof suggests a recent repaint

Yes that’s correct though I think it’s moved servers since. it may not have been just the varnish but the undercoat too. If the GWR used the same undercoat as they did for the brown in the brown and cream livery then this would have soon shown through if they skimped on the topcoat and this wore off.

The only way to try to resolve this would be to go through the minutes of the various GWR committee meetings that should reside in the National archives. Of course you are looking for a minute that may not exist if the change never happened. So I have resolved to paint my stock crimson lake (1912) and nothing in full brown. The single line livery is also quite a challenge to line because there is no black on the raised moulding against which to clean up a wonky line. The choice of paint is crucial as anything too thin will spread making a thicker line than intended; not to mention the colour. I have acquired some PP Gorse Yellow gloss with which to experiment.

I have mentioned before on here and elsewhere that many are of the opinion that there was never a brown period. Rather the change in 1908 was to lake which weathered to brown quickly until the GWR got to grips with red paint. As acknowledged in GWW, there is no contemporary record of a change in 1912

Not only that but I’ve ordered the paint from Phoenix Precision.: M&GN Gorse Yellow

I've answered my own question by reading your next subject on the all 3rd where it is detailed!

That's fantastic particularly the lining! Can I ask what colour you use for the gold lining?

Cab roof and interior. Buffer and drag beams and outside frames all fitted. Outside cranks made up, quartered and soldered on. Rods fitted and bogie levelled up and it runs complete with tender. Steps to be added next and other fittings such as sandboxes and handrails before the paintshop beckons.

From the same display at Manchester Piccadilly:

London Road Manchester was often the starting point for the North to West Expresses. Here are some images of the station: On the concourse above platforms 13 and 14 currently some historical images are displayed of London Road now Piccadilly. One of these images is from there.

Manchester London Road (when it looked like a proper station):

Having the same design display boards was not uncommon. This is Woofferton and although poor quality, shows GWR and L&NWR boards. Note the white windows. In terms of charging for hoardings, did they charge the same for a poster at Paddington and Reading for example? How long did a poster stay up and how long was it charged for? And who was responsible for posting it? Presumably "Advertising Agents" were involved as intermediaries and brokered the space. Nowadays it's easy to just send a digital file. But back then they had to print and distribute posters. Was it organsised or was it random?

it baffles me how the railways would have organised charging for this advertising space. What we see are national brands advertising on hoardings so to mount a national campaign would mean dealing with lots of different railway companies. maybe there was something like the RCH managing this. i contacted the History of Advertising Trust a while back specifically about enamel signs but they have little if any information on this early period in the history of advertising.

I don't think the concept of sold printed poster advertising existed in the Edwardian times as we knew it. (nowadays it's all becoming digital). The branded poster boards were likely to advertise the railway company's own services and excursions, timetables etc.. On my line the GWR branded theirs and the L&NWR (later LMS) theirs. This could be so that Bill Stickers didn't stick them on the wrong boards as well as bringing the services to the attention of the travelling public. The railways were of course amongst the first to exploit the poster medium to publicize their destinations and there are many famous examples. But paid for advertising posters probably didn't start until the 1920's

Detailed and interesting choice of livery. Is this after or before your red frame pre-1906 livery period?

The Duke is slowly progressing. I haven't found a source for that transparent solder others seem to use. Next stage is to progress the chassis as the outside frames and buffer beams are attached to this rather than the body on this kit! A repaint is due for the waiting hut following discussion on my layout thread about chocolate coloured windows.

Apologies for highjacking your blog with my own quandary over chocolate colour windows; I am beginning to think afterall that the two colour scheme shown earlier owed more to the LNWR than I was originally lead to believe and was a red herring. Nevertheless, I find the prospect of the overall chocolate scheme less attractive. So it depends on how much prototype fidelity you are prepared to pursue.