145 Squadron

Comparing the HD tender body with the Albert Goodall drawing there were some dimensional inaccuracies; the most visual is that the HD bunker is too short, which necessitates some drastic surgery to correct. However, mounted on a Hornby chassis and repainted it does give scope for some different locos.

Hi Phil: the majority of the carriage was Plasticard with I think 247 developments white metal bogies. The roof was made from a wood former, sanded to shape then a layer of plasticard bound to the former with bandage then cooked in the oven until it formed the shape. Most of the rest of the bits from the usual small suppliers sources. I don't usually make these earlier coaches, most being Bulleids of various types but wanted a coach to go with my Ironclad Pull - Push set. I enjoyed the diversion! Tony

There is a drawing of the 10 comp't 100 seater (dia. 52) in Mike King's Southern Pull-Push Stock book as well as a few photos. Plans may be available separately from him. My model (in 4mm) was scratch built using Bill Bedford brass sides. Hope that helps.

Carefully mark round a spare barrel with a pencil, cut with razor saw then smooth on a flat piece of sandpaper. As suggested, two pieces on each end to extend, glue and fill as required. RT step boards and ladders, CCT transfers (he made different tank numbers for me on request - recommended)

Yellow circle was changed to a triangle to avoid confusion with the ex GWR weight restriction symbol. as 35012 had a GO in March 1962 it could have been changed then if not earlier. Brake gear, front steps and other gear can be successfully attached with Poundland superglue if left to fully cure. My loco has survived several exhibitions and will hopefully be on Redbridge at Ally Pally this coming weekend. Good luck with your loco.

Having looked through my pile of Comet coach sides last year, and bearing in mind the impending Bachmann release of Bulleid coaches I decided to make up some BCK's. I had 5 sets of sides in total so decided to make them all as a batch. I managed to paint the sides before the weather deteriorated before Christmas, with the rest completed after. I gave one coach to a friend in exchange for things he had done for me, so I now have 4 + 2 completed previously so should be able to make a prototypical Atlantic Coast Express formation with one of the two tavern car sets currently under construction. It will be interesting to see how the coaches compare with the new Bachmann coaches when they are released.

I have been asked to supply some rolling stock (coaches) for our club layout at an exhibition and am being asked for an insurance value. The coaches were made from etched sides on donor coaches with added details; there are no equivalent RTR replacements. I know roughly what the material costs were (except some are no longer available) but how do I value my labour content? If the stock was stolen or destroyed I would probably not want to build it again myself but the cost of the hours (30+ per coach) for a professional to build replacements would be I guess be very high. I want to help the club by supplying the stock but feel if it not sufficiently covered, or is too expensive to do so, I would not be happy to let them use it. Can anyone offer advice? Thanks

Just to give this thread a bit of a bump, like a lot of people I have been going through my 'to do' boxes and finally plucked up courage to have a go at some Kemiilway etched chassis kits that I have had salted away for about 40 years. I had some spare Hornby loco bodies and tenders acquired over time plus some Markits drivers so outlay was minimal. The Kemilway chassis is equalised (similar I believe to the subsequent Comet version) and providing it is assembled carefully results in a free running chassis. What did cause me a lot of aggro was the cylinders/slidebar assemblies which are made up from a series of individual etches - simple in theory but difficult to solder without all becoming solid! I did not use the prototypical brake rod sets behind the driving wheels as I felt they would hardly be seen and would be likely to cause shorting (outside pull rods were insulated with sellotape. The Hornby bodysides received a lining of sheet lead to increase weight and cylinder drain pipe assemblies and steps were obtained from the new Hornby Merchant Navy accessory spares. It runs very well but does not slip like the prototype! I had 4 chassis kits (obtained from Albert Goodall himself) and have so far built 34015 Exmouth and 34063 229 Squadron, the last one under construction will be 34020 Seaton; I would have preferred 34065 Hurricane but the donor body is a 'Bude' and the badge marks are too prominent.

Replacement plugs with leads can be purchased from several suppliers, or there is an X6113 equivalent (£2.00 + post for a pair) from a supplier on the usual auction site (no connection) which is supplied with thicker wires. Two wires go to the pick ups, two to the motor and a simple 12V tester will tell you which is which. I cannot say for sure because Hornby swapped the polarities round on different editions of this loco as you will find if you try to swap tenders! Not a difficult repair and avoids risking your loco in the post. Hope this helps.

My chosen modelling period is c1962, by which time, as Mike king states in his Southern Pull-Push Stock book 4 of the 5 (set 382 withdrawn 1959 following fire damage) had been repainted in BR (SR) green. There are a couple of colour pictures in Michael Welch's Southern Coaches in Colour showing set 383 in green with a good finish. There is also a picture of set 384 in crimson in 1960 in the same book so I would guess they had been repainted at overhaul in the early '60s. My set will be 383 as there are some detail differences between sets, so will be BR (SR) green, the same as the Bulleid stock. I have not done so yet as I was diverted into making up my stock (4) of Kemilway chassis/Hornby bodies in my store cupboard for 40+ years! Regards Tony

Hello Jack, I do not have a copy of the Stephen Williams Pt2 so cannot comment on his build. The 247 kit is no longer available, but looking at Mallard's Bill Bedford etches they would seem to be identical (not sure they are available at the moment either). I found a few discrepancies when comparing the etches to the drawings in King's Southern Pull-Push coaches and Weddell's LSWR Coaches books notably the positioning of the driving end windows which caused some problems with end details but not the kind of problems you describe. Most of the other issues I have described in the build above. Soldering up the end duckets I struggled to keep everything square, with lots of different angles and small pieces involved - using the Phoenix cast duckets might be an easier route. In fact I think Phoenix do sides for these coaches but you need to scribe the doors on the aluminium sides I think; I have no experience of building one of this manufacture so cannot advise, but I know Chris Knowles-Thomas does post on this website and may be able to comment on suitability and availability of the the Phoenix sides and parts. An alternative suggestion is if you know someone with 3D printing skills - not something I possess I'm afraid. Possibly a Hornby Maunsell underframe could be cut down to suit although the plasticard construction was perhaps the easiest part of the build. In addition to the sides you will need to source a lot of the rest of the kit; roof, bogies (Ashford 9' bogies do not seem to be available from any manufacturer currently) and underframe. I think a lot of the bits could be sourced in the Phoenix range from the Southern Railway Group. Not sure if I have answered your question - overall these coaches were certainly not the easiest build but I enjoyed the challenge! Perhaps an ex-SECR 100 seater might be a better choice and could run with you Gate Stock? Regards Tony

Sorry Phil I am a bit of a luddite when it comes to technology - I don't even own a mobile phone (which causes me no end of trouble these days!) Tony

As I wanted to change the bogies anyway I thought I would have a look to see how much work would be involved in fitting a set of cams; I have quite a few different spares from various makes in my spares box (never throw anything away!). I found two basic types, one which fits through a hole in the underframe to retain the front end, and the other which engages in a groove behind the buffer beam. I used some examples of the latter which came from the Kernow Gate Stock which I had just worked on (I fitted screw couplings to the outer ends) as they also had a rounded end to fit against the central boss of the Hornby bogie fixing. I do not know if they are available as a spare but might be worth an enquiry to EFE. I measured the shape of the retaining section required behind the buffer beam, then made two pieces of 0.75mm plasticard one slightly overlapping the other, and glued them to the underframe so that the cam fitted snugly against the bogie boss in the straight ahead position, but could move outwards as it moves from side to side. To retain the spring I glued a small plasticard square in the old bogie pivot slot and when dry superglued a small retaining hook into the block, checking it did not foul the bogie. The bogie itself was sufficient to retain the cam in position but bear in mind I was not using the original Hornby bogies (they were Mk1's from the cheapo China Bachmann copies from the magazine some time ago, of which I have dozens!). The use of these other bogies also necessitated having to make the recesses in the underframe shown above, which you will presumably not have to do with the originals. Hope this helps. Tony

A couple of fairly quick projects recently; following the release of the latest EFE versions of the Gate Stock I dug out my Kernow BR green version. Following the info from other modellers on this site (for which many thanks), plus the details in Weddell's LSWR Coaches book I moved all the underframe equipment to the correct sides on the driving trailer, made the extra interior partition, painted and fitted passengers and curtains. I also reduced the width of the bogie footboards which made a big difference to the appearance. I also recently purchased the latest Hornby Mk1 RB in BR green. This coach is very good value for money but needless to say I could not resist taking it apart and making some changes! For inspiration I used an excellent prototype photo in Parkin's Mk1 Coaches book. Although most of these coaches seem to have run with Commonwealth bogies initially, the photo of S1720 shows it fitted with Mk2 bogies in 1962, which is my modelling period, so I duly fitted some modified Mk1 bogies from the stock box. I also fitted cams to move the couplings from the bogie to the coach underside at the same time to enable close coupling with my other stock. Internally I changed the counter arrangement to suit the earlier layout, removed the seats and replaced them with Southern Pride seats as I could not get passengers to fir the original moulding. Curtains, reducing the 'ribbing' on the coach roof, bogie step boards and wire replacement end details completed the job. The Hornby green is slightly lighter than my Bulleid stock but not enough to warrant a body repaint. I can now substitute this coach for my Bulleid buffet coach in the 6 car set if I wish to run it as a post 1962 version.

6 weeks on and quite a few hours at the workbench have resulted in the Ironclad pull push set now being completed awaiting paint. A lot of fettling was required to enable the set to be pushed around sub 3' curves due to the length of the buffers leading to buffer locking. In the end I used a fixed brass bar between the two coaches, sprung to centralise, fitting to a hole in the other buffer beam. Coaches can still be more closely coupled for static display. The spare cut down Kirk plastic roofs were reshaped, shortened then had strips of 0.75mm plastic glued to deepen them slightly. These were then securely glued to the the coach sides plastic fillets previously added; they were then left for several days to dry off thoroughly. Commode handles (ex Hornby Maunsells) will be fitted after painting and glazing. Coach end details were taken from prototype photos or drawings (which do not always agree!) but care was necessary as some details are individual to different sets or to a period of time. This will be set 383 which lasted until the end of 1962. Interiors have been painted, and bulkhead details added but passengers have still to be included. This is the inner brake coach end with details added from wire, plasticard and cast pipes. Body is attached to the chassis by 6 self tapping screws, 4 in the ends with 2 in the approximate middle of the coach - these proved difficult as they required plasticard brackets superglued to the inside of the brass sides for support; they are not noticeable in the completed coach. Tony

Phil, Good to hear you are having a go too - I found a lot of issues with the etches; when soldering the coaches together start with the small ducket side widows to the ducket sides, then this assembly soldered to the ends with the main sides soldered on last using the tabs on the duckets to locate. The end etches are too long for the formed sides and I had to cut about 0.5mm from the bottom of each end before assembly. The etched steps are fine for the brake composite but there is insufficient for the brake third end and there are no locating slots anyway. The large central steps and lamp irons on both coach ends I fabricated out of scrap brass etch; The positioning of the driving and windows are incorrect according to the drawings and pictures but I cannot alter that. I have no experience of the Worsley Works underframes so will look forward to your commentary on them, when received. Today I scratch built the 6 battery boxes for the two vehicles (I could not find any suitable ones in my stock boxes to match the drawings) and added the turnbuckle trusses from wire and split pins to one vehicle. In answer to your query about the 'ribbing' on the Bulleid coaches, I have added this to many of my vehicles, and it can be seen in the pictures of the Bournemouth set above; they are formed from the crepe tape that Comet (now Wizard) sells as 'roof ribbing' which is very fine and self adhesive on a reel. I add them to the brass sides just before priming paint. Be warned if you do not paint the sides fairly quickly after you add the tape it will curl up off the vehicle due to the different material temperature coefficients! Note that not all vehicles had the reinforcement due to some re-sheeting in later overhauls - photo reference is required. Also, an obvious point, but the reinforcement does not cover the doors, so lay the strip in one continuous line, then when stuck down cut the doors at the etched edges with a scalpel and peel of this section. Hope that helps. Tony

Initial work was to solder the bogie frames together with some Romford 14mm wheels from the stock box. I fitted top hat brass bearings which necessitated having to turn down the axles of the wheelsets as they were now too long for the bogie width. Also complicated by the fact that when I opened the bogie packs I found that one bogie had an 8' stretcher instead of the 9' sides! Photo above shows the completed bogies with a standard 8' Southern bogie for comparison. Next I assembled the other components I had amassed ready to start the rest of the construction. For the chassis I could not find a suitable donor in my various spares so constructed the basic shape from 0.5mm and 0.75mm plastic sheet. The etched sides and ends were then carefully soldered together, having bent in the tumblehome and added the droplights first. Strengthening strips of plasticard were then added to the top of the etches and plastic bulkheads where the coaches bend in towards the duckets, all secured with Evo-stick. This is also to give a strong joint with the plastic roofs, which are cut down Ex-Kirk Maunsell 'reprofiled'. Outer end body details were added from the etch or scrap brass where not supplied. Interior details were built up from plasticard with Southern Pride compartment sides and ex-Kirk kit seats. Because of the need to be able to separate the body and chassis and to fit the existing bulkheads it was necessary to have some interesting arrangements whereby some of the seats are fixed to the body and some to the chassis! So this is the current state of play with a start now being made on the underframe details. Tony

In order to not clog this thread, which should be about Phil's efforts to construct this stock (which I will continue to watch for hints and tips) I have put my own efforts in my thread in the 'Modifying and Detailing RTR stock' section.

During lockdown 1 & 2 I have dusted off an old set of 247 Development etches for ex-Southern Ironclad pull-push conversions that I have had in my store cupboard for several years. Coincidentally Mallard60022 of this parish was also embarking on one of the same sets so I was initially posting on his thread, but now rather than clogging his thread up with my ramblings I have added my progress to my existing Southern Region coach building thread here. The bits I had assembled over the years consisted of the brass etches for the two coaches, an etch with the ends and some other details, plus two pairs of Ashford 9' VS cast bogies all from the then 247 Developments proprietor (since changed). Although the bogies are not currently available similar etches are available I believe from Bill Bedford's Mousa Models range. For reference I have used King's Southern Pull-Push coaches and Weddell's LSWR Coaches books, both of which have plans for this stock, plus various picture books. I have noted as I have progressed that some details do not agree between the two reference books or with available pictures. In cases of this I have used the picture references where possible. Construction of these coaches has been a new experience for me as previously all my coaches have been using brass or plastic coach sides grafted onto suitable donor vehicles, using mainly glue to hold the various bits together; this time I would have to solder the main coach components together as well as having to allow for the peculiarity of these coaches in that the luggage portion of both coaches recess to allow for a lookout window in the end duckets. All of this would require some very careful bending.

Phil, Does this mean you have given up on this project for the time being? Hope not. Having all sorts of fun trying to progress my own set; could do with some company! Tony

Phil, 247 Developments is still showing the 9' Ashford bogies as 'cast to order' reference C521 - may be worth a call or email? Look forward to seeing your progress. Tony

I was hoping that perhaps others were looking at their kits for these vehicles so that we could share experiences of the construction of these vehicles. My etches seem to be the same as Mallard's above (although mine were obtained from 247 Developments as then was rather than Bill Bedford). Regarding the problem with the bogie mentioned in my last post I managed to solder some white metal fillets to the errant stretcher to make the correct length; a bit of filing resulted in a set of bogies. The only other modification was to fit brass top hat bearings, which necessitated having to shorten the axles on the Romford wheelsets. These are Ashford 9' "VS" bogies, with a standard SR coach bogie next for comparison. Having a set of bogies I then considered how to construct the chassis; my usual practice is to construct the sides, ends and roof as one unit to fix in some fashion to a separate chassis to facilitate fitting an interior. In the end I could not find anything suitable in my spares box so decided to make the chassis from Plasitcard. A composite block 1.75mm was measured out, basic side frames and bogie stretchers glued up and left to set. I did not add any detail at this stage as I knew I would need to fettle the basic shape to fit the bodysides when assembled; in particular I was not sure about the 'cut in' where the body narrows between the compartments and the duckets. Next stage was to add the basic details to the coach sides; droplight frames were soldered onto the sides (there are 32 frames on the etch, but the sides required 34!) plus the ventilators (Phoenix castings - very nice). I also used Evo Stick to glue a strip of Plasticard to the inside of the sides at the top to have something substantial to glue the roof to later. For the roof I have used a couple of Kirk Maunsell roofs (spares box again) which are nearly the right curvature, cut to length. I have never soldered a brass kit together before so the next step required a deep breath! The tumblehome on these coaches is complex as the sides also bend inwards after the end of the compartments to aid visibility to the end duckets which are the full bodyside width, although a different profile. The soldering was assisted with a selection of sailors language but the one coach so far seems reasonably square and solid which will be further reinforced once the roof is attached - it is only placed in the photo below. I think I will leave it a while before I attempt soldering the other coach..... Tony

I hope Mallard60022 does not think I am taking over his thread but he did ask to share others experience of making these sets. At the weekend I unpacked the bogies I had previously bought from 247 Developments, having lain in my 'to do' pile for about 10 years. You can see from the picture above that there are three bogie centre castings of one type (correct) and one for something else with a shorter wheelbase! I think I am a bit to late to ask for a replacement (the business has changed hands in the meantime) so will have to come up with a method of either altering the casting to fit or making a replacement. Not a good start. Tony

Chris, How did you manage the turn-ins at the ends before the duckets? The body shape from tumblehome to recessed flat sides for the doors seems quite complex and I am pondering how to bend (and reinforce) the etched sides to this profile. Any pictures of your set? Thanks Tony

According to Weddell the PP sets all had 9' Ashford type bogies, which are available from 247 developments (ref C521) to order. Also from the same source the brake composite vehicles for these sets could be either left or right handed (sets 382/4 LH, 381/3/5 RH). Not sure whether this means the etched sides will only suit one configuration for this coach and therefore limit which sets can be constructed. I have looked at the roof profile and it seems the profile of the ex-Kirk Maunsells is fairly close but needs to be a bit more rounded so as i have a couple spare I might use those. At least they already have the rainstrips moulded. Regarding the chassis I think I will try and scratch build in Plasticard as it seems a bit of a strange beast; I don't have any Roxey parts to hand unfortunately. This is not going to be an easy build (probably why I have not seen many model examples). Still not started yet (apart from this research due to daily life getting in the way!