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Bill Jamieson

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    Stow, Scottish Borders

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  1. Keep an eye on the MNA Books website - there is something afoot! https://www.mnabooks.com Bill
  2. Thanks Eddie that seems to have solved the puzzle, although I reckon that the individual digits need to be multiplied by 2 and 1 alternately (ie starting with 2 rather than 1) to get the correct check digit. I've tried E202 and also E144 (a Henschel 2-8-2T now preserved) which latterly carried 3 079 144-4 (the 90 94 type and country codes were never carried by CP metre-gauge steam locos to my knowledge). You're quite correct about OeBB locos but it appears that the old and new check digits on DB diesel locos should also be the same - that's something I hadn't appreciated before. Applying the Luhn algorithm to the digits 9280 1 (but multiplying alternately by 2 and 1) gives a sum of 20 which leaves the check digit based on the old 2xx xxx number unchanged. Recent photos of diesel locos on the German Fotocommunity site show the check digit still applied to the front of the loco eg 218 456-2 and 232 690-8. Bill PS The upshot of this is that while I was incorrect in suggesting that the check digit wasn't calculable from the 11 digit UIC number, the reality is that for DB locos and dmu/emu vehicles the check digit is derived from the xxx xxx number and a one off fudge to the four digit class numbers (as reported to the UIC but presumably never used within Germany for day to day purposes) ensures that the whole 11 digit number gives the same check digit as the DB six digit one. I wonder if this applies to other railway administrations using six digit numbers.
  3. That's extremely interesting, but there's nothing equivalent in the 1970/71 Section B WTT of passenger train services and 1971/2 Section E WTT of mandatory train services (the 1968/9 information was supplied by a friend who does have the 1968/9 version of Section E). 5M20 from Perth still seems the best bet at the moment, with the stock possibly worked to Perth on the 16:00 SX Class 4 parcels from Aberdeen Deeside Yard. Bill
  4. This train, which departed Manchester at 21:27 SO in the 1968/9 WTT, had a slight claim to fame in that it was one of the last trains to traverse the full length of the Waverley Route, on Sunday 5th January 1969. Thereafter it was diverted via Carstairs with a reversal there and another at Waverley. It was still running three years later (and probably into the 1980s) with slight variations of the departure time from Manchester. My query, which I'm hoping keefer can answer with his 1968-9 PTM, is how did the stock return south as there is no obvious working back south from Aberdeen in the ScR Section E WTT. It seems possible that 5M20 11:50 Perth - Carlisle Yard ECS may have been involved - this may have continued further south under the same reporting number after a loco change in Carlisle Yard as I observed a class 50 displaying 5M20 heading south through Carnforth early on the evening of Saturday 9th May 1970. Bill
  5. The UIC numbering system appears to have been applied to locos from 2007. In Germany and Austria (the European countries with which I'm most familiar) the full numbers are only applied to loco body-sides and.the change certainly didn't affect the check digit which is still calculated from the national number only (ie it ignores the type and country codes). In fact in Germany the first digit of the supposedly four digit class number is also ignored and the check digit calculated from the old style three digit class and running numbers using the method I explained earlier eg 185 190-6 (1+1+6+5+2+9+0 = 24-30 = -6). Incidentally this appears to be known as the Luhn algorithm but it certainly doesn't work with the Portuguese metre-gauge locos and I was hoping someone might clarify what method the CP used back in the 1980s. Bill
  6. Curiously there's no 15:30 Aberdeen - Perth shown in the 1968-9 ScR public TT, although it does reappear in the 1969-70 version. I notice from the 1971-2 Section E WTT of mandatory train services that the 01:05 Perth - Aberdeen, the return working for the passenger stock off the 15:30, was a more substantial train (345t timing load) conveying mail. It looks as if it probably took forward vehicles off 1S81, the 20.33 Carlisle - Perth mail, which must have arrived in Perth at about 00:30 (I have the ScR Section B WTT but not Section C covering Garnqueen North Jn to Perth) so can't be exact), but confirmation of this from the PTM would be welcome. Bill PS Checking the 1968-9 public TT I see that 1S81 was advertised for passengers, giving a connection out of a Liverpool - Glasgow express. Arrival time at Perth that year was 00.29.
  7. It might just be a coincidence, but applying the DB way of calculating the check digit works in this case - multiply the digits of the loco number alternately by 1 and 2, sum the resultant digits and subtract from the next multiple of ten above - 3+2+9+4+3+1+4=26: 30-26=4 Bill PS I did a bit of photography of what little steam was left on the Portuguese metre-gauge in the mid 1980s, by which time the locos were carrying computer numbers (and the nice brass chimney-mounted plates had been removed). For example 2-4-6-0T Mallet E202 on the Sabor line carried the number 3 079 202-0, but I've never been able to work out the derivation of the check digit - if anybody out there knows the answer I would be very interested to hear it!
  8. I should perhaps have started a new thread for this extract below from the KRM website. While this is obviously far from new, I don't think the possibility of another book from CTG has been mentioned on this forum previously. In the current circumstances one would hope that David Postle has found the time to beaver away optimising the scans - no doubt we will find out in due course! Bill 'Transition' was officially published on May 19th and was in great demand from the first day, so much so that the complete print run was sold in ten weeks. We are very grateful to those who did buy the book and hope that you have enjoyed browsing through the wonderful photographs that Colin Gifford took of that period. We do not intend to reprint the book. Rather we would like to bring some more of Colin's work into the public arena as there are so many photographs he took which have never been seen and surely deserve a wider audience. We are currently planning a new book with Colin which will hopefully be accompanied by an exhibition of his work here at Kidderminster sometime in the Spring/Summer of 2020. When the plans have taken a bit more shape, more details will be made available, hopefully sometime just after Christmas 2019 depending on progress, of what we are producing and when it is hoped to publish it.
  9. Ian Bell from Hawick kindly let me have the final register on long term loan and as a bit of light(?) relief from decorating our bathroom I've just finished transcribing into a spreadsheet the details of all movements through Hawick from early evening on Monday 23rd December 1968 (the date the new book was started) until the early hours of 6th January 1968, when No. 8606 arrived back from Newcastleton. As a disclaimer, I must say that I did get rather skelly-eyed (as Bruce would put it) at times so there's always the possibility of the odd mistake having crept in but hopefully there's nothing major. Bruce has indicated that he might do a check at some point in the future - if he has nothing better to do! Anyone wishing a copy should send me a message on this forum with their email address. Bill
  10. Given that the LMR and ScR lifted their respective sections independently (working south and north from the regional boundary just south of Riddings Junction), I would have thought this was a Scottish Region jaunt and ventured no further south than the boundary at 84 miles and 1170 yards. Will alert Bruce regarding this thread and hopefully he will be able to shed more light. Bill
  11. The 1968-69 LMR public TT shows an 18:10 Carlisle to Appleby stopping train (arr. 19:08) and I think it most likely that the dmu involved would work back empty to Carlisle (rather than stabling over the Sunday at Appleby to form the 07:30 Down service on the Monday) - on the assumption that the dmu set off back north quite quickly that would be consistent with a 21:30 arrival at Hawick. Bill
  12. Sorry it has taken four years to clarify why 5131 worked the 18:07 Hawick to Edinburgh on 4/1/69 but the explanation only came to me recently when I was redoing my spreadsheet of workings through Hawick over the final weekend (the original got lost when my hard drive packed up a couple of years ago). The first thing to say is that the WR winter timetable for 1968/69 (effective from 30 September) was amended before what is shown in the 6 May 1968 public TT came into force - I don't have a copy of the public amendment but Andrew Boyd does. 1S68 St Pancras - Glasgow was retimed by about an hour earlier requiring 1S65 to be retimed by a similar amount, departing Carlisle at 15:58 rather than 17:00. The dmu worked Hawick to Edinburgh local service shown in the public TT as departing at 18:04 during summer 1968 therefore continued to run with just a slight tweaking of departure time to 18:07. Regarding 5131 on 4th January, on a normal Saturday the loco off the 16:12 from Edinburgh would have returned light engine to Edinburgh, leaving the coaches at Hawick to form the Monday morning 06:58 Down service (worked by the loco off the 03:15 Millerhill to Hawick class 6 freight). With there being no service to run on the Monday, the loco and coaches were utilised to form the 18:07, leaving the dmu which had arrived in Hawick earlier that afternoon as the 12:55 from Edinburgh to form the 08:30 SuO to the capital. That begs the question as to how the dmu for that Sunday morning train usually reached Hawick - I think the explanation is that although the 18:13 Carlisle - Hawick only ran SX, there appears to have been a Saturday evening ecs working from Carlisle (on Saturday 28/12/68 it arrived in Hawick at 21:30) which would have done the normal two Sunday return trips to Edinburgh before working the 06:41 to Carlisle on the Monday morning. With no service to run on Monday 6th January there was no point in sending a unit up from Carlisle on the Saturday evening. One last point, on weekdays the loco which had worked the 16:12 Edinburgh - Hawick returned north with the 19:40 SX class 6 freight to Millerhill (usually much earlier than booked), again leaving the stock at Hawick to form the next day's 06:58 to Edinburgh. Bill
  13. Just for completeness, here are all the 76xx workings through Hawick I can find in the last SB register - a new book was started on the evening of Monday 23rd December 1968. I have made an educated guess at balancing workings where loco numbers were not recorded by the signalman. Bill M 23/12/68 21:15 7606? 4M80 20:10 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard T 24/12/68 01:07 7606 5S09 23:45 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill F 27/12/68 09:30 7606 4Z 07:30 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard 12:15 7606 0S Carlisle Yard - Millerhill 18:13 7606? 8M51 16:45 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard 22:14 7606 4S46 21:30 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill S 28/12/68 02:32 7605+7606 4M46 01:25 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard 06:34 7605+7606 0S41 04:50 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill T 31/12/68 11:23 7605+7607 4M65 09:52 Millerhill - Carlisle Yard 12:24 7604 0 Light engine ex Edinburgh (depart back north at 12:43 hauling 8612) 15:31 7605+7607 8S50 13:25 Carlisle Yard - Millerhill
  14. PS Scanning through the last Hawick South SB register for double-headed workings, I noticed that on Tuesday 31st December 1968 No. 7604 worked light from Edinburgh to Hawick arriving there at 12:24. It departed back north at 12:43 hauling presumably-failed Clayton No. 8612, which had replaced classmate No. 8574 the previous Saturday as Hawick pilot (changing the pilot loco on a Saturday seems to have been normal). No. 8612 can't have done very much at Hawick because No. 8583 was sent down from Edinburgh early on Monday morning to replace it, arriving in Hawick at 06:42. The normal changeover happened again on Saturday 4th January with No. 8606 replacing No. 8583. This might seem a bit odd so close to the end but No. 8606 found employment the following week on what the register describes as 'ballast' duties on the line south of Hawick (now in the possession of the Civil Engineer) - presumably the recovery of materials had started. The register entry for Wednesday 8th January states "Ballast entered dead line @ 08:45". Entries for the following Sunday and Monday are more specific with the destination stated as Riddings. To return to No. 7604, I am now 99.9% certain that this Robin Barbour shot on Railscot https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/23/820/ records the southbound LE working on 31/12/68, and Bruce, who was at Stow with Robin, agrees with me. https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/23/801/ was taken on the same day and the loco can be identified from the Hawick South register as EE Type 4 No. 262 (note headcode box which is correct for this loco). https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/17/882/ might depict the northbound working of Nos. 7604 and 8612 later the same day but if so the weather has deteriorated significantly from when Robin and Bruce were at Stow. The BR Sulzer Type 2 is facing the same way as in the Stow shot but that's hardly conclusive proof! Bill
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