47137
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Posts posted by 47137
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Locomotion models had a sample in its box on their stand at Ally Pally - Rapido trains have a formidable reputation but this model still exceeds expectations. It looks fabulous.
- Richard.
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Its worth noting that most RTR manufacturers have settled on 2nd radius being the minimum recommended for most models they produce and as such 1st radius curves tend only to be found on 'starter sets' (i.e. the ones with an 0-4-0 tank engine and a few wagons). While specifying a larger minimum radius would make life easier in design terms and allow more detail, it is a fact that doing so excludes a fairly large chunk of your prospective buyers who through space considerations, etc. who use 2nd radius curves.
Thus Rapido have felt it necessary to ensure that their APT-E also complies with the '2nd radius' minimum spec while not compromising on the detail - which results in some pretty big gaps and overhangs if used on such curves. However the good news is if you have the space to install prototypical curves the large gaps reduce and the model looks far better.
Thanks for this. On topics to do with trackwork, I've had the term "train set curves" rather thrown at me and the implication was very much this was a derogatory term. To my mind, if the term is to be useful as a parameter for stock it can only to refer to one radius, which is a minimum - and for me this is the Hornby "radius 2" because as far as I know, all RTR will go round this though sometimes you must omit optional detail fittings. I do appreciate the need for the radius 1 on the smaller sets so I guess the term must remain dimensionally ambiguous for the time being.
I am very much looking forward to my own APT-E when the time arrives. I suspect it won't fit my layout because of the overhand of the nose, but I surprised myself a while ago with what the Roco close coupling mechanisms can achieve and I expect the Rapido mechanism will be just as good or better.
- Richard.
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What is a train set radius curve? What is the threshold and why?
- Richard.
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This is what I did.
Set up a quadrant of Setrack on a sheet of board on the floor. Lift one side of the board, so one end of the track stays flat on the floor, pointing down to the floor. When you look at the other end of the track, it has a cross-fall (superelevation) on it, which on a real model railway you need to get rid of. This cross-fall equals the gradient at the bottom of the track, and also equals the slope on the board. So in a 90 degree bend, you have got to impart a twist which equals the overall vertical climb. With your generous curves and a 1:100 gradient, this will be ever so small - if the cross-members are at right angles to the track, the flex in the plywood track bed will take it up as you fix it down to the cross-members.
If you have a wye turnout on the gradient, the maths will tell you the crossing vee ought to be higher than the two stock rails. Keep the turnout flat, and the track beyond it flat for the length of a loco, and lose the error in the next yard or so of track.
The differences in rail lengths will be too small to worry about. Even on the Thread Shed (4-inch curves), the inner rail was barely 2 inches longer than the outer one.
Hope this helps!
- Richard.
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I have bought one of the full cab models brand new - very nicely done by Bachmann and I'm so glad they haven't (quite) sold out everywhere. The model is beginning to loosen up but it waddles from side to side on the rolling road. The ends oscillate about 1.5 mm on every revolution of the wheels. My Bachmann class 03 diesels do this as well. The ammeter shows a tiny fluctuation too, like something is almost binding.
Could anyone shed any light on this - possibly one or more wheels not orthogonal on their axle or a problem in the quartering? It's not noticeable when the model is running on the track.
- Richard.
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Spotted in our local supermarket yesterday.
- Richard.
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Hi Ray.
Both couplings swinging the same way seems to suggest that one of the couplings is not mounted centrally on the wagon. Push the wagons individually over the magnet to make sure the Kadee swings positively to the right side before coupling them up.
Your height gauge looks awfully high as does the between tracks magnet.
Ray,
The height gauge does not fit bullhead track like SMP and Exactocscale and as your photo shows it ends up too high. Get yourself a length of Hornby or Peco code 100 Set-track, and use this for setting up couplers. I've got a length of track glued down to a bit of strip wood for this. Then you can hold the whole assembly up to the light and see what is going on.
The magnet looks too high as well but this might be the camera angle. I use the Kadee jig to locate the magnets, and bed the magnet on No More Nails to fill the void beneath it.
Good luck!
Richard.
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In the packet of NEM couplers there will be some red washers. On the lower coupler, run a needle file across the pivot hole on both sides, then reassemble with the washer between the coupler and the box lid.
If the two couplers then line up with each other but are 1 mm or so too high, try centre set couplers.
I have been through so too many iterations, but in the end most of my 00 stock has ended up with centre-set couplers, with a washer above or below the coupler to make the difference, and often no washer at all.
- Richard.
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The original Electrotren wheels ran ok through Peco code 75 turnouts and my own 00-SF turnouts, but bottomed out on the rail fixings in Peco block and beam track (SL-106F). Exasperation? The axles seem to be yet another unique length, so I have kept these, pulled off the wheels and pressed on some Gibson wheels instead. The axles are splined and hopefully these will hold the Gibson wheels in gauge.
The completed van proved impossible to run smoothly over Kadee uncoupling magnets, because the original Electrotren axles stuck to the magnets. Two axles of Markits 10.5 mm disc wheels (24.5 mm axles) are a drop in replacement. Fault cleared.
The magnets holding the body in place are not a problem with uncouplers.
My drawings of the VGA do not show the wheel diameter, but I'm sure someone here will tell me if its not 36 inches :-)
- Richard.
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The uncoupler magnets definitely have opposite poles at the two long edges ...
Thanks for the whole of your explanation. I've taken the magnetic monopole out of my blog entry. I really wish I had a packet of iron filings to play with before I write anything else on magnets. Nevertheless, what I made (as per the blog entry) does work.
- Richard.
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Norm81 - from my knowledge of Physics, if you have two magnetic poles of the same polarity, they repel and there is a dead space between them with no magnetic field at all, gradually increasing until you get to the pole itself; there will be no magnetic field to attract the trip pin. With opposite poles, there is a very strong field between them and each trip pin will be strongly attracted to the nearer pole.
As you say, you need a strong field and this is best achieved using opposite poles. If you check the Kaydee magnets that lie between the tracks you will find the North Pole is one long edge and the South Pole is the other long edge and the field goes across the track.
Fundamentally, the trip pins need to move sideways, which means that the magnetic field needs to be at right angles to the direction of the track. If the uncoupling magnet had a north pole at one and a south pole at the other then the magnetic field would run parallel to the track and the trip pin would not move. This can easily be demonstrated by taking a single Kadee coupler and lowering it by hand towards an uncoupling magnet at right angles to the normal direction: the trip pin will not move, even when it is in contact with the surface of the magnet.
Since this can be demonstrated using a single coupler, it disproves the theory that some people put forward about induced magnetism in the trip pins causing them to repel.
It is worth keeping in mind how the stock uncoupling magnets work when experimenting with using small, discrete neodymium magnets in place of the ferric slabs that Kadee sell.
I wrote up an account of Kadee magnets on my blog last November - which seems to be at odds with this.The characteristics I see are that the original Kadee magnets both repel from the centre and attract at the edges. This implies the trip pins are lightly magnetised, and this would tally with what I saw when I was setting up my Neodymium blocks, where I had to be careful to get the magnets the right way round to swing the trip pins in the correct direction.I'm happy to change the blog if someone shows this is wrong.Edit: see good explanation in post by ejstubbs.
- Richard.
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One further question if I may regarding the fixing of couplings. I've previously indicated that I hope to use adhesive (solvent) to secure the draft boxes. How does one assess the amount of packing required, if any, prior to gluing the draft boxes to the chassis?
A while ago, I bought a packet of spare draft gear boxes and I use these if things go wrong.
What I do, is assemble the coupler into the box, tack the box onto the underframe with a drop of solvent, and put the model on a length of track. If the coupler is the right height, I flood the joint onto the underframe with solvent, and also put some droplets onto the box lid, so it doesn't fall off. If the coupler height is very wrong, think about an over- or under-set coupler. Otherwise, pull off the box and add a shim. But to be honest, after you have done a few wagons, you start to know which ones will be right first time.
Sometimes I wonder if the box lids should be left free to fall off. If a trip pin is too low and it hits a rail on a turnout, the wagon can take a nose dive to the floor.
- Richard.
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1. Do you have a photo comparing the 141/146 with the NEM couplers ? I was not aware that they were different size knuckles.
Here is a 146, with its gear box and lid, and a 20. The knuckles are the same size.
It is worthwhile buying a packet of each of these. If the 20s are too long you can use them somewhere else and buy some shorter versions. Have a go at fitting a 146 to an old wagon, you will learn far more by doing than asking here ;-)
You will end up with a collection of the sizes which suit you, but you will most likely use them all up as soon as you commit.
Edit:
There is a "scale size" coupler for H0 (158 series), but it looks a bit undernourished for 4mm scale. So standard Kadees are better looking for 00 than H0.
- Richard.
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Bending Kadee Couplers
Sorry if this is a bit out of sequence but it seems better here than in a new topic.
I have discovered, I can put an offset bend into the shaft of a "long" Kadee coupler. This example is a 146, but the idea should be extremely useful if you have a problematic installation of a "scale head" coupler, these are only supplied with centre-set heads.
Put two-thirds of the shank into the vice, and put the first bend close to the knuckle with a centre punch, you can see the mark from the punch in the second photo. Then put only the pivot part of the shank into the vice and make the second bend. Trim back the lid of the gear box to clear the offset and assemble as usual.
Many thanks to John (Allegheny1600) for giving me the idea when he put a comment on my blog.
- Richard.
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It was a funny old week and I seem to have spent a disproportionate time on RMweb. There must be something about track threads that bring out the worst in people and tempers were getting frayed. Unfortunately there were some statements made without substance, opinions became entrenched and in some cases, they were unable to see the others point of view. Eventually the thread was locked and the parties involved retreated to argue another day. It's one of those subjects where there appears to be a very simple answer but the more detailed discussion becomes, the more complex it becomes. It also means that words have to be chosen very carefully as often one word in the wrong context or position can be sufficient to light the blue touch paper.
Anyway I digress.....
. . .
So that's all positive, but sadly now trackbeds are in place, it has raised another issue. One of my fundamental goals in any layout plan is that all pointwork must be easily accessible. No matter how careful you are any mechanical item with moving parts is going to fail at some time or other and I was horrified to see just how restricting the loop track beds were going to be once I had moved from a computer generated plan to real component parts. I really didn't spot this was going to be such an issue and had a tie bar or point blade fail, it would have meant considerable dismantling to get access. My original thought was to have the throat of the storage sidings all on one board that could be slid out in one piece. Unfortunately that cannot be done as there is only 70-80mm clearance from the track bed above and Tortoise motors are at least 82mm deep and as such there is not room to remove the board in one piece.
Track topics - me too (and some exasperation).
How about miniature servos (as used for model aircraft) for point controls?
You can buy kits which include mounting brackets for model railway use, and also driver boards. You can set up end stops and operating speed. There are write-ups on line and on the RMWeb.
- Richard.
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Here's a copy of NEM 362. This copy is in German but the important parts are independent of language.
- Richard.
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I learnt this the hard way, but brand new Kadee couplers do come with the trip pin in the right place. So if you can find a shim about 1/32 inch thick and lay this across the rails - I use a thin steel rule - you can see straight away where the coupler needs to end up in a sloppy NEM socket.
- Richard.
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My initial investigations into fitting these have been less than satisfactory to say the least. I have a lot of newer freight stock and all seem to have the pocket with a fraction too deep a slot in which allows vertical movement. This means they almost all sit approx 1mm too low. Locos with close coupling mechanisms look as if they will never work, as nevermind the nem pocket slot allowing droop, the mechanism has vertical movement and as the knuckle pushes against another to couple up, the whole nem pocket moves down.
Then there's the trip pins all being too low as supplied, needing so much force to try and bend I'm convinced I'll break a coupling or mount. There's nothing to lever against but the top of the knuckle. Just using normal small pliers. I've already almost broke a centering spring. Haven't been able to adjust any yet.
I didn't expect everything to be plug and play, but it looks as if every single item of stock is going to need a bespoke solution involving butchery and glueing. This is a significant investment in time also negating the ability to return stock to tension locks if you later decide to sell.
I now understand why the majority still use tension lock couplings, I can't understand how anyone can get kadees to work at all. Really disappointed as I was all set to convert my entire stock and enthusiastic about it, not any more.
In the sloppy NEM sockets, put a shim of styrene below the coupler.
If there is going to be an error on the height, aim high not low because a low trip pin will cause a derailment.
To adjust trip pins, use a pair of the Kadee pliers.
The dimensions published by Kadee are difficult to interpret because they don't give tolerances. If you aim to have coupler pins 1/32 inch above rail tops they will work well with magnets 1/64 inch above rail tops. If the NEM mount is sloppy and dropping when propelling a train, set the coupler and pin for the lower position.
The NEM socket is a European standard designed for users of the major coupler designs used in Europe: tension lock, hook and loop, Roco. The Kadee 17-20 range is something of an afterthought and is asking quite a lot of the NEM mount, and a rework using a draft gear box will be more satisfying visually and often mechanically in the long run.
Kadee couplers do work well, honest, but you have got to give them a chance.
- Richard.
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I've bought a packet of each of Nos. 17, 18, 19 & 20 (and the insulated height gauge) to experiment with as these were the only ones my local shop had.
I've fitted the Nos. 17 & 18 ones to a few reasonably new Bachmann wagons and run them around the layout. I had one derailment where one of the NEM pocket mounts was slightly loose in it's socket causing the trip pin to catch on a rail of a point, I managed to wedge the pocket mount into the socket and all is now in order.
I'd prefer to keep the magnets as less obvious as I can but I'm not too worried about the "pre-" uncoupling - I'm content to stop the vehicles and uncouple them where I want to position them. Access to the underside of the layout is all but impossible so any uncoupling method has to be introduced from above.
I've tried sticking some small round (and shallow) rare earth magnets to the foam underlay on the inside of the rails between the sleepers on one of the fiddle yard (SMP) tracks as part of my experiments. The first goes down easily but the subsequent ones take a very passionate liking to the first so I can't get two down to try them. Has anyone else used this type of magnet and how did they fix them? Is the only benefit of having more than one (small) magnet on the same side of the rail that of providing more tolerance when it comes to stopping over the magnet?
I used quick setting epoxy to hold small magnets with a block of balsa as a spacer while the glue set, write-up on my blog. These magnets are more powerful than I would like and are causing trouble with some steel axles, this is my weekend project to sort out.
If you uncouple over a magnet then you cannot recouple until you push the wagons away from the magnet. So the shorter the magnets are, the less you have to move the wagons; but you need good slow speed control to achieve the uncoupling.
- Richard.
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I used PVA to glue mine down using the alignment jig. It's important not only to get the magnet at the right height but also centrally aligned between the rails. If the magnet is slightly too high, it can be struck by passing vehicles: with the forward-facing coupling pins this can cause derailments. Likewise if it's not straight between the rails, the magnet sides can be hit by vehicle flanges.
I used No More Nails with the alignment jig holding everything overnight. This works nicely if you have to chop out the sleepers e.g. fitting the thicker magnet on code 75 Peco track.
There is a manual uncoupling tool from Kadee which would be suitable for temporary use, it's a length of plastic with a flat point on one end, you put it between the couplers and twiddle it to uncouple.
- Richard.
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Kevin - That is the whole point of adding the weight to NMRA standards. It removes that problem completely.
I'm having grief with early Roco and Lima steel axles over neodymium magnets and the Kadee under-track magnet - they bounce onto the magnet and stick.
Is the solution of adding weight to NMRA standards only qualified for the relatively weak Kadee magnets which go between the rails?
(Personally, I'm looking at taking some over-length but non-magnetic axles, and cutting them and sleeving to length, but fortunately I've only got four problem wagons)
- Richard.
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3. What about old Hornby brake vans ? Has anybody had a go at fitting Kadees to these ?
I've dug out a Hornby R.098 LMS brake van. If this is the sort of thing you have in mind, I would cut off the entire moulded-on coupling and reduce the buffer beam to its proper height. Then lightly tack on a draft gear box to the underneath of the chassis and start with a #148. Looking at the amount of error in the height of the coupler, you could put some packing between the box and the underframe or go for an overset coupler or both.
Fitting slightly smaller wheels would improve the overall look, but do this change first if you feel it is worthwhile.
Edit: just realised, this is much what John suggested a few posts ago.
- Richard.
The Official Rapido APT-E Thread
in Rapido Trains
Posted
A nice diversion while we wait for the parcels to arrive . . . especially good for me because my first car was an Opel Kadett, much the same outside as the Chevette here. I remember a good driver's car, only really let down by its cross-ply tyres, which I let myself trade in too soon. What a fine start to the day.
- Richard.