firstgreatwestern

Hello RmWeb As we all know, the world's oldest passenger railway was closed by a bus company. But what if it had survived? Let's say South Wales Transport is somehow thwarted in their plan to close the railway e.g. Swansea Corporation steps in and buys the railway, OR the parliamentary bill to close the railway gets rejected. Another possibility would be that SWT in another timeline liked railways, and saw the benefits of keeping the line. In any case, it has survived into 1960, but modernization is still required. What would have replaced those mighty double-decker tramcars? I'm sure at least one or two would've been kept on for holiday traffic. But, they were 30 years old and if the Mumbles Railway had miraculously survived, there would definitely be an expectation that it should reflect the 1960s. The Light Railway Transport League did produce a leaflet before the S&M's closure, suggesting that single-decker continental trams were an option for survival. I think European trams could have been a suitable replacement, as loading times would be faster etc. The Tatra T3 could have been perfect for the Mumbles Railway, as it even operated in coupled pairs! On the "official" Mumbles Railway Facebook page, a post was once made saying that the SWT briefly considered "bringing back" the railway with continental trams in 1989. I don't whether this was true, but it makes for an interesting idea. OR, are we looking at this through the wrong lens? Perhaps the Swansea and Mumbles would order a fleet of "tramcars" from a British company and something similar to the Blackpool Centenary class would appear 20 years earlier? Talking about Blackpool, wouldn't it be amazing if one of their Millennium Trams was painted to look like a Mumbles Tramcar, as none sadly survived. I still get upset about the fate of Car 2 in Leeds. If that had survived, it would have been the pride of Crich's collection. I would love to hear your thoughts and ideas. NOTE: This is not in the "Trams" section as the S&M has always been classified as a railway.

Hello RmWeb Just like the rest of Swansea, the docks in the town (later city) were covered in railways. In the 1960s, some of the railway lines began to close, most notably with the Swansea and Mumbles Railway. Some of the dock lines closed, but the King's Dock still had a busy network of lines up until the 1980s. Traffic continued through the 1990s and into the early 2000s. I have a book called "Welsh Railways -A New Perspective" and there is a photo dated on the 27th January 2001 at Swansea Docks, where an EWS 08 and 66 can be seen on a very rationalized dock network. This is the latest date I can find. I do remember seeing a train running to the docks in 2005, but I was much younger then and cannot verify that. I was lucky enough to visit the docks in 2011 when I was older, and I remember seeing a lonesome EWS wagon. My question is, when was it last used? Also, is it still in a serviceable condition? I've never read anything about the line being closed permanently, so I assume it is just mothballed and not used as there is no traffic. But do NR test trains ever run down there, like they used to do with Folkstone Harbour until the tracks were ripped up.

Evening All I'm having a discussion with someone and they are adamant that Swansea Victoria and Swansea High Street were not connected at all and the GWR High Level line did not ever make a connection with the LMS line. Obviously the connection wouldn't have normally been used, but the book "The Red Dragon and Other Old Friends" has a map of Swansea's railway lines and there is indeed a connection. The book in question also explains a train once reversed out of Victoria due to a blockage between Pontdardullais and Gorseinon and went via Danygraig, proving the connection did exist. Any more help would be greatly appreciated, so I can give this person "proof" as it were. FGW.

Very interesting tidbit about the vending machine. Thank you to everyone who has commented with memories and information. It really does mean a lot to me.

Hello RmWeb The Cambrian Coast Express was a titled train which ran from London Paddington to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli. On the Pwllheli section, the express called at Barmouth, one of the largest stations on the line. As part of a personal project, I am researching Barmouth Railway Station. My focus is on the late 1950s, when the Cambrian Coast Express became a year-round operation. What was the configuration like when it reached Barmouth? I know the two trains joined at Shrewsbury, but how many coaches could you expect to see on a typical day on the Pwllheli section? Would there have been a buffet or restaurant car? Or was this put on at Shrewsbury? I assume that the motive power was a Manor, as the Kings and Castles were out of gauge. Also, did the day-to day services always wear headboards? This question is probably a bit too detailed, but I'm sure someone will enjoy answering it. How long would the express have stayed at Barmouth? Did the train take on water at the station, or was this unnecessary? Thank you in advance FGW

Hello RMweb Up until the mid 2000s, Virgin CrossCountry operated a daily train to Swansea. This arrangement ended when operations were scaled back to Cardiff. While I have been able to find a few images of a Virgin HST at Swansea, I have never come across a picture of a Class 220 or 221 at High Street Station. From my research, I believe there was a period of time where Virgin only operated Voyagers before pulling out of Swansea. If anyone has images or could shed any light on the subject, it would be greatly appreciated. FGW

Apologies for the late reply, sometimes real life leaves no time for railway modelling or research! Thank you to everyone who commented with their ideas and advice. It's still a mystery it seems. There's only one possible theory . Because they were such a small fleet with a specialised purpose, nobody ever thought of giving them an official name. To me, the semi-official name would be the "Swansea & Mumbles Tramcar." Gordon A: I will try to contact Brush to see if they have any further information. Maybe I am reading too much into this. (I research the Mumbles Railway quite frequently) but it would be very exciting to make a new discovery about a long lost yet still beloved railway system. FGW

Hello RmWeb Apologies if this should be in in the Tramway Section, but I felt that the question forum was for everything and the Mumbles Railway has always been considered a light railway, rather than a fully fledged tramway. In the late 1920s, the legendary Swansea & Mumbles Railway modernised their fleet. A fleet of 11 tramcars (later 13) were ordered from the Brush Electrical Engineering Company of Loughborough to replace the aging steam locomotives. A resounding success, these tramcars could operate as coupled pairs and were the largest of their type in Britain. Originally painted in a cream and brown livery, a few years later around 1935 they were repainted into the now famous dark red. My question is, what was their official name and designation? In every single book or video I have read or watched, they are given generic names such as "trams" "trains" or more affectionately "the big red trains" or "The Mumbles Train." Other tramcars produced by Brush were given a model name, such as the Blackpool Tramway's Brush Railcoach. As they were built by a large company specialising in railways, they must have been given some sort of name. I have a few ideas. Perhaps the trams were called the "Brush Piermaster" in relation to their duties serving Mumbles Pier, or maybe they were called the "Swansea Bay Dreadnought" as they were so luxurious and grand. But these two names are just guesswork. I do believe there is a real answer, and their official name faded into obscurity. I hope someone could help. Best Regards FGW

Thank you for knowledge and help everyone, thank you for sharing your thoughts. FGW

Hello RmWeb. Freight services west of Port Talbot in Wales are becoming increasingly rare. In 2014, the Murco Refinery at Robeston closed down. I assumed this meant that the train services ceased. A week ago at Britton Ferry, I saw a huge oil train being headed by a Class 60. It was coming from the West so it had definitely been down Pembrokeshire. I was wondering, have freight trains to Pembrokeshire restarted again? I did some research and it seems the Robeston site is now an Oil Terminal, can this still be serviced by rail? Any knowledge would be appreciated. FGW

I might try and email Crich but as they are in the middle of a refurbishment, they might take longer to reply to! Maybe someone who works at Crich might read these forums and be able to answer this elusive question. Thank you for the reply FirstGreatWestern

I believe this is in the wrong board. Awfully sorry, I was rushing! I think it should be in questions.

Hello Rmweb. As a fan of the Swansea & Mumbles Railway, I have always wondered about the history of Car 2, one of thirteen electric trams built for the railway in 1929. Besides the cab of Car 7, Car 2 was the only vehicle preserved upon closure in 1960. It was sent to the Middleton Railway in Leeds but sadly, Car 2 was broken up after being vandlised and set on fire circa 1968. However, it has been stated that the bogies/trucks survived and were sent to Crich for preservation. I have seen too many posts/videos for this to be untrue but I have never seen a photograph of the bogies/trucks. I was wondering whether the bogies are still at Crich and whether they are on public display. A photograph would also be greatly appreciated! Best Regards FirstGreatWestern

Thank you everyone who as liked and commented! As per the power functions, I still use Lego 9V! and this particular loco was designed for easy 9V conversion to the bogies. On a future version I will certainly look into the possibility of Power Functions!

Hello Rmweb. I'm sure many of you have heard of Lego Trains, it may be why you started modelling even. Lego has a timeless appeal and I thought I'd share this project with you. Lego Ideas is a site where you can upload Lego sets you've created in the hope it can reach 10,000 supporters. If it reaches 10,000 Lego might consider producing the set and you receiving credit and 1% of the royalties. I decided to create a model for consideration. It is called the "Freight Loco" is made to look like a generic diesel-electric locomotive. You can see the locomotive here https://ideas.lego.com/projects/162455 Although I say the model is generic I've actually base it on the infamous Class 58, I considered calling the project "Standard Export Locomotive" much like the Class 58 for example. It has the wider cabs and thinner body as well. In an update I have plans to show one cab being removed like the 58 if it was exported. Because it is Lego I've added a few features which wouldn't be part of real model, such as a mailbox and tool store but it just adds some play-ability. If you feel like it would be a good idea click on the link and have a look at all the images and description! Thank you Michael,

Love it

I think ill put this project on hold id rather smaller trams mainly leeds

Already tried...but it went nowhere

We basically need a body for the tram, chassis are fine and a kato pantograph is fine its just looking for the right person

I would like to model argyle road because its quite easy but I will have to revert to Blackpool because I know I can buy kits but I cant with mumbles because I've looked everywhere so I may have to stop this project

They are Brilliant! all 13 tramcars were made I think its rutland street

I was thinking of Resin or 3D CAD, im currently looking for somebody to do the job Thanks pual!

Thanks for the reply Brian and yes they are the biggest trams in the UK (or were) scratch build is a must!

Hello Rmweb I want to make a mumbles railway layout in N gauge because it was in my town and it was very unique plus another n gauge tramway layout Im looking at the tramcars nothing is on the market right now and may never be. The typhoo tea tram may be similar in paintsheme but the shape isnt anything like this. does anyone know who can make one? As for area I would say Rutland street its got a good prototype mike