PGH

Rich, There has been a small amount of progress, mainly on locomotive construction and now covered on here:- http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/moving-coal-a-colliery-layout-in-0-gauge.7692/page-2 Philip

Oh yes, very amusing indeed. Just purely as a matter of interest Caledonian how many prototype photos have you posted on this forum ? (I've posted one thousand one hundred and forty one - all of my own taking if you'd posted anything like that number you might be a little less flippant about crediting the photos correctly, where possible)

That's a rather twisted view of my remarks although no doubt you felt it necessary to make some unfavourable comments. Most are probably satisfied with photos of "typical" Pecketts merely to illustrate weathering and couldn't give a damn who took it and when but lack of information just arouses my curiosity.

Everyone likes to see a good photograph and we should no doubt be grateful for those who take the small amount of time and effort to download or copy an image from another source and post it here. However does it ever cross your mind when commending this effort that this photo is actually the work of some unknown uncredited photographer who has spent time and effort visiting the location; photographing the subject, sometimes spending time waiting to get it in a suitable position; processing the film (or paying for the processing) if its pre digital; scanning the negative or slide; editing the result suitable for publication and composing a suitable informative text for the caption (probably ignored when the image is copied). Perhaps they deserve some credit ???? Just a thought.

I do wish people would record full details of any image they 'lift' from other sources (I assume that applies to the photos included in Post #83 - correct me if I'm wrong) and provide these details when they republish, such as where it was taken, when it was taken, etc, etc. These details may not be of interest to them but would be of interest to others. For example I find it hard to believe that the original photographer of the last image in the above post would have published it without giving these details. As for the different types of Peckett, I think to most people a Peckett 0-4-0ST is just that, a Peckett 0-4-0ST and they don't really care whether its a R2 or a W4, or whatever.

Yes, I agree, I normally read a question before I decide whether I can answer it. Do some people know the answer before they read the question ? My word, that must be clever, some kind of telepathy perhaps ? The point about the 100+ was if nobody else has come up with the answer, perhaps somebody more familiar with the Newport Area, I should make the effort otherwise the question would probably remain unanswered, although the only info I could offer was from the quoted publication.

Apparently 100+ members have viewed this post but no additional information has been added, so being the curious sort I'm tempted to look for any additional information. I've no personal knowledge of the area and the only source I have available is the Industrial Railway Society's handbook "Industrial Locomotives of Gwent" - still available on the society's website for a relatively modest sum considering the wealth of information contained within. No locos are listed for Morris & Griffin or the Usk Chemical Works. However I don't think the sidings serving the chemical works were extensive enough to justify their own locomotive so presumably any shunting required would have been carried out by the locomotives serving the adjacent Great Western Wharf. This had four 0-4-0STs - a 1883 Hunslet (disposed of at an unknown date) and a 1889 Black Hawthorn (Scrapped in 1931). These were superseded by two Barclays bought new in 1913 and 1925 which lasted until rail traffic ceased circa 1964.

Correct an R2, a 12" cylinder loco, the W4s were larger with 14" cylinders. Ex works 1.7.1926

Andrew, thanks for the link to the Williamthorpe photos. I've checked IRS records for the colliery and this gives the information that locos for shunting were supplied by BR under a long term contact until 10/1967, after which date NCB locos were used (3 diesels) until closure of the colliery in 1970. On 9/8/1955, for example, the colliery shunters were BR 47004 and 58153.

Thanks for your comments Andrew. As far as I know the only Jinty sold by BR for NCB service was 47445 to the British Oak Opencast Disposal Point, Crigglestone, Yorkshire in 1966. I saw it there in June 1970 out of use, and noted it was painted black with orange tank sides and bunker and red footplate valances. The following month it went to the Midland Railway Centre at Butterley and I believe its currently under restoration. Three Jintys are known to have seen short term NCB service in Lancashire - 47669 was loaned to Walkden when their ex North Stafford Railway 0-6-2T was restored to North Stafford livery at Crewe for display at Stoke-on-Trent in 1964, it would only have been at Walkden for a couple of months at the most. Bickershaw had two on short term loan in 1957 - 47298 noted there in Feb/March 1957 and 47452 there for a bit longer later in 1957 after BR damaged the Austerity FRED, the loan of the Jinty and repairs to FRED being paid for by BR. There may have been others on loan for short periods.

It should read 1/43 scale. I've checked the finished chimney against my original drawings and it is correct for 7mm scale. The 3D designer is a modeller of US railways, hence the 1/48 scale, but he is working from my original 7mm scale drawings and all parts come to me first for checking, so all the parts produced for this project will be correct for 7mm scale. Update: Scale on Shapeways page has been amended to 1/43 scale

The 3D parts are being designed by Alexander Clark and will be available from his Shapeways shop, Boxcar Models, in a variety of materials as they become available. The prototype dimensions of the loco have been taken from copies of the Hunslet general arrangement drawings and the Giesl chimney from a drawing supplied by the manufacturer and used for fitting the arrangement by the NCB's Walkden Workshops. Update 28/9/2018: Some problems have been experienced with the 3D parts, including distortion, warping and sizes not within the specified tolerances, so until these are resolved most of the parts are not currently available.

Its a scratchbuild with some parts produced by 3D printing, more details later. A bit too early to describe it as clever - better wait to see how it progresses ! A list of NCB locomotives fitted with Giesl ejectors was given in an article in the Industrial Railway Society's RECORD magazine, issue No.196 published in March 2009. That article detailed other modifications to NCB locos including the Hunslet underfeed stoker & gas producer system, locos fitted with diesel powered underfeed stokers and (believe it or not !) oil firing. There was an update with amendments in issue No.203 of November 2010, which was a special issue devoted to Austerity 0-6-0STs. I believe that back issues of both are still available - see the society's website. In brief, the first NCB loco fitted was HE 2859 at Baddesley Colliery on approval. Following tests which showed some improvements another 45 units at least were supplied. In the article we listed 40 locos known to have been fitted, there may have been more but at least two units remained unfitted at NCB workshops. the 40 known locos included 28 Austerity 0-6-0STs, 2 Andrew Barclay 0-6-0Ts, 2 Andrew Barclay 0-4-0STs, 1 Kerr Stuart 0-6-0T (a Victory), 1 Manning Wardle 0-6-0ST, 3 Peckett 0-4-0STs and 3 Bagnall 0-6-0STs.

So what's next ? The layout operates as planned - as the title of this topic - moving coal from one end to the other. There's plenty of locomotives and wagons to operate on it. What it really needs is more buildings (more brickwork to paint !) and scenic details, which doesn't really appeal to me at the moment. However as its supposed to be inspired by the Walkden System what it should have is some locomotives beginning with a capital "A", here's a clue: to be continued

Oh dear ! here we go again, the belief that colliery locos have to be covered in filth to have "convincing realism" or be "truly representative".