Thank you 'Rudg1022' . The plates on the locos at St Philips Marsh during 71' mainly (if thats the correct word) had the plates on the valances..... Coz we had them! - with the yard managers blessing! ( he told us to help ourselves as they would only be melted down to make doorknockers!!!!!!!!) What an UNDERSTANDING guy I thought lol, wink wink, I should imagine quite rare now