stivesnick

Hi Windhawk I really like your airport branch idea and thinking more about the concept of a layout in the living room, it does need to have lots of visual inerest to appeal to possible non-model railway minded visitors. A few things to consider. It is worth thinking about how the trains would actually operate. For example, where does the parcels train or the fuel train serving the airport run from. You may need some extra tracks in the fiddle yard to cope with these. Drawing up an iniial train list and an operating sequence is useful. Of course you will likely end up with far more stock than you need, but you have to start somewhere. The loops for the freight trains in the station look quite short so would be worth extending by moving the junction to the left of the station over a bit. It is sueful to do a consistency check on siding lengths, ideally you want a bit of flexibity so most trains can run into different tracks if needed. For example, back to the oil train. It appears there are two sidings for oil tanks at the airport, is the loop at the airport and at the station long enough to hold this train? I would make the backscene in front of the fiddle yard removable to ease access. You could also extend the deadend tracks under the airport terminal to allow you to run longer trains or have two trains in each siding if you wanted. Hope this is useful Nick

Hi If you are thinking North East, there were a number of freight only lines along the River Tyne which had lost their passenger service as part of the Beeching cuts. So fomer double track route, reduced to single line, disused paltforms and a couple of sidings still around to serve local industries. No need for a run-around loop, just switch the trailing sidings then the other sidings on the return journey. Given the width you have, the factories can extend in front of the fiddle yard. Regards Nick

Hi As a basis for a layout, how about Dinton on the Sailsbury to Yeovil line as a starting point? The original double track line in the 1970s was used as 2 single track routes, one run by British Rail, the other by the MOD to connect a number of it's storage depots. The MOD had a lot of internal vehicles that were not allowed onto the main line, but also interchanged air braked wagons with BR at the closed station. In this form, the layout would allow two seperate operators to run trains with some interchange between the two lines. Some crossovers in the hidden loops would allow the layout to operate as a watch the trains go by mode as a "double track line" when needed. Since the MOD had sites all around the country, there is no reason why this arrangement could not have existed elsewhere if you don't want to model the southern region of BR. Schematic layout plan enclosed. Hope this is helpful Nick

Hi I asked a similar question on the American section on this site. The general consensus is that train crews disliked running around a train during operations. Whilst on model layouts run-around loops might be short, in real life they are much longer so it all takes time. Therefore a local freight would often switch all the trailing spurs on it's outward journey and then on the return journey back to the yard, switch all the "facing spurs" that are now trailing spurs (hope that makes sense). The locomotive would have couplers at both ends. Regards Nick

A guide sheet without lots of information is not an issue providing that the exhibitors are encourgaed to provide some information on the layouts themselves. Nick

Agree with the others that this is a great show with lots of fine modelling on display. The only small niggle was that there were no layout details in the exhibition guide and many of layouts themselves did not have a discription pinned to the layout. My preference is that it is better to have a good discription on the layout itself without the constraints on page space, trying to include track plans and photos within the guide itself. My own highlight of the day: When the person on the till in the cafe, looked at the piece of cake and noted "that's not a very large slice, I will only charge you half price!" Regards Nick

Like Claude, I also saw the layout at Ally Pally and agree it was one of the best layouts at the show. A question for you: The third track in the middle of the layout, does that operate as a bi-directional loop and is that a common feature of Austrian railways? Nick

There is a company called modelbuildings that produce downloadable building kits - Not used them myself but the range is very extensive. Many buildings also suitable for UK layouts, especially the city and factory buildings. https://www.modelbuildings.org/ Unlike scalescenes there is not a free download to try. Regards Nick

Thanks 298, once the yard is wired up, I will give this a try. Could be fun in N and around 12 inch radius curves! I was actually thinking that I would need to split the train up as the train would foul the level crossing. The train would run in as far as the switch to the interchange track, the loco would uncouple and run forward to the end of the loop. The GN loco would run along the interchange track to collect the cars and then also couple up the cars on the other side of the level crossing. I will try both options. Nick

Hi Keith I will try to explain. Fresh produce was a key traffic on many interurban lines, so during harvest season they would have run extra trains to carry the produce in refer cars. To get the goods to market as quickly as possible, the GN has also agreed to run special trains (unlikely but rule 1 applies here). So either it runs a light engine+ caboose to pick up the loads or to make the operation more efficient, it brings a train of empty refer cars for the next load of produce. The two sets of wagons are exchanged at the station, so the GN loco returns with a loaded train. To make the operation more complex, the use of an electric interurban mean that the interurban locos can not access the GN tracks with their longer spurs. The interurban run-around loop will not be long enough to run around the train. However the GN locos can access the interurban yard so will need to assist with the shunting. The refer cars are genrally yellow or orange with ice hatches on the roof and will have their doors closed! I need to check if I have enough refer cars to two trains. Hope that makes more sense. Regards Nick

I have finished laying the track for the interurban (SRTC) depot. Although not wired yet, pushing cars around the yard, I am happy that the track plan will work when it comes to moving freight to and from the Great Northern Line. A typical SRTC freight will be around 6 cars with say 4 being interchanged with the GN line and the others for local traffic. It is also possible, that during the harvest season, there could be longer freights of refer cars that would exceed the length of the run around loop. I must dig out all the refer cars to see how many I have got. Swopping over an loaded and empty trains of refer cars will be complicated (so will likley be scheduled in for each running session!) but will add to the fun in operating the layout. Some genral overview progress photos enclosed including a mark up shpwing where extra buildings will be required. Happy with the progress but still lots to do. Nick

The coupler/bogie will be changed at some point to a microtrains version. I need to check how many couplers I need for this and other rolling stock. Some more progress with the Fertilizer Plant. It would be fair to say that the elevator unit was quite tricky and highlights an issue when HO laser cut kits are simply scaled down to make an N gauge version, especially if the wood thickness is halved. Anyway it doesn't look too bad, although I will try to tidy up the trim elements on the building corners. The next step is the lorry loading extension which is added to the side of the building. The blue lines on the photo indicate where the access road will go. I have also started laying track for the interurban line yard. The photo shows work in progress. The back line will be a freight siding with a loading dock. The second line is a storage track for cars between asignments. The other two tracks will be a car barn for the passenegr stock and freight locomotives. The York modelmaking site has some nice trusses for the car barn roof but are a few mm wider than I had planned so these tracks may have to move over a bit to create the space. Progress photos enclosed. Nick

Hi I have been folowing the discussion, especially with respect to the fiddle yard with interest. I guess the questions that need to be answered are: 1. How many freight trains do you want to run and how long will they be? Whilst some freight and PW trains can be quite short, for example nuclear flask trains, others are much longer say 15-20 bogie wagons. Is having 8-10 wagon trains reasonable or go for longer? 2. As noted in the post above, how many passenger trains will want to reverse in the fiddle yard? That might depend on how much stock you have. If there is enough to have trains running in each direction then the amount of reversing will be reduced. On the other hand, if there is only one IEP train, then that would have to reverse. Hope this helps. Nick

Excellent stuff - looking forward to seeing more. How is the rolling stock coming on? Thanks for posting a longer distance shot. This is how most people would see an actual layout and it is a good way to understand the overall view. Nick

The next building for construction is a Blair Line Fertilizer Plant, a laser wood kit. The kit comes with parts for a hopper discharge pit and auger for hopper car unloading. This poses a couple of questions. Firstly, when did railroads switch to hopper cars for such traffic? Hopper cars, started to appear in the late 1930s with further deliveries in the 1940s. These were the 2 bay hoppers, originally used for cement tarrfic but eventually used for other products. The larger 3 bay hoppers started to appear in the late 1950s, around the time the layout is set. They appeared to be used for grain traffic. The second question in using the hoppers, is the storage capacity of the plant. To deliver a full car load from a hopper would perhaps require a separate storage bin. Using box cars, could imply a part car load of bagged fertilizer. I am tempted to use the 2 bay hoppers, but could consider using box cars and ignore the hopper dischage parts. I am also considering using the 3 bay hoppers as part of a demonstration train: Loco, some hoppers and an observation car to run as an extra, calling at the various towns on route to talk to the local farmers about the latest developments. Pogress photo and picture of hopper wagons. Nick

Happy new year to you all. Spent the last few days building the bolier house for the Kingcase factory. Again used DPM parts, the chimney is a Ratio kit. The boiler house will receive coal in gondola cars, so need to build a coal pile next to the building. Work in progress photos enclosed, shown in approximate location and a photo of the other side. The intention is to build all the buildings for the town before finalising their locations. Next up are some laser cut wood kits for the factories on the spur behind the depot. I also have another couple of apartment buildings shown in the previous post. The challange will be to get the finish looking similar to the kit built many years ago. Regards Nick

There have been various proposals in the past to upgrade the ECML south of Peterborough. The restoration of the 4th track just north of Huntingdon is a requirement to enable the construction of a new station at Alconbury to serve new development on the former airfield. New stations on the main line north of Peterborough, would I assume be only served by local trains to say Spalding or Stamford. To serve both sets of services would require a mult-platform station and therefore be very expensive. It is a feature of many cities of similar size, that there is only one station to serve a population of 150,000 - 200,000. An equivalent area of London would have perhaps 15 stations on both the Underground and Network Rail lines. Given the cost of a new station, it would be much easier to provide a 10 minute bus service for the same cost. Nick

Very intresting. Many N Gauge modellers will remember and perhaps still have the Kato models produced some time ago. I assume, although it does not clearly state that the other versions will be produced at some time. For my own layout, the Great Northern only had 1 Budd railcar - an RDC-3 that operated much further west, but I could be tempted. Nick

Good to see the prototype following modelling practice and using a fomer diesel bogie for a switching loco. Does anyone know what happened to the loco that was shipped to the UK? Nick

Some more photos. This time of Train 51 - the overnight mail/passenger train that drops off a baggage car at Brandon. Nick

All Thanks for the responses to my question on switching the local train. I have had a go at applying the no run-around rule and it works well. I just have to remember what the cars that are kept for the next train to complete switching are meant to go. Its been 6 weeks since consgtruction started and I am pleased with the progress made so far. Some latest photos enclosed starting with a general view and some of the other trains including the daytime passenger train plus a MOW extra. The next tasks are to finsih the various building kits I have so I can finalise the location of the buildings. Regards Nick

Here is the "as-built" track schematic. Cars that need to change direction, can be stored at the Willmar end of the industry spur. The baggage car that gets dropped off from the Sioux City mail/passenger train gets stored on the team track. The return working that picks it up, will use the double ended siding to pick up the baggage car and temporary move any freight cars on that track out of the way if required. Not sure if switching a oil tank car with the baggage car is a great idea so may swop the oil distributer and the feed mill locations so the oil distributer is at the end of a spur and could be gated if needed. Hope that makes sense. Nick

Hi Keith Many thanks for your detailed response. I will have a look out for Lance's book. My current thinking is as follows: As noted in the first post, the layout will be (very) loosely based on the Great Northern's Willmar to Sioux City secondary route. The route was 220 miles long and trains took around 7 hours to cover the full length. My understnding is that the 1 or 2 through freight trains each day would have made limited stops en-route as they had to connect with other freight trains at each end of the line. I assume any switching would be trailing connections only - perhaps at key inerchanges with other railroads. The local freight would have taken much longer and would not be able to make a round trip in a day, so the eastbound and westbound local freights would have crossed somewhere. My run-around loop is not too long, around 18 cars, however on the real railway it would have been much longer say 100+ cars so a run-around move would have taken some time. Some loops did have a cross-over in the middle to speed things up. I am going to work on the basis that run-around moves were allowed for, although there will be other spurs on the layout, such as the quarry, which will be trailing switching only. Loaded cars will be dropped off at Brandon by westbound trains ready to be picked up by the next eastbound train. Thanks again for your comments. Nick

Some more progress with the large factory. It has now been painted and a roof added. I have also started to build the loading dock using plastic sections. I feel there ought to be a canopy over the loading dock, however this would hinder attempts at uncoupling in the sidings which are at the limit of reach. The company name has come from looking at company names in a local directory linked to what letters I have spare. The yellow card on the photos is where the company energy plant will go. It will receive coal in gondolas. In ongoing trail running, I have drawn up a simple switch list for 5 days operation. Some facilities will get switched each day, others once or twice during the 5 sessions. The schedule ensures that no operating session is the same as the last. Finally a question for all the experts on operation. The line represents a through route rather than a branch line, with the local freight running from yards at each end of the route where cars would be switched to and from through freights on the "main line(s)". If the local freight serves a number of town en-route, would the yard put the cars in town order or would they simply block switch a group of cars from other services? Any thoughts on this welcome. Seasons greetings to you all. Nick

Hi As others have noted, I would also get rid of the turntable. This would allow the platforms to move to the left and create a bit more space on the right side so the crossover is clear of the platform end. Some further thoughts and questions: Many terminal stations had a third "releif track" whihc could be used for shunting whislt limiting the impact on the main running lines. It was also used when the engine shed or carriage sidings were away from the main station. It would be worth knowing what era the layout is set in, as this would help establish what size the engine shed would need to be. Many terminal stations would have had carriage sidings A few extra goods sidings that can be shunted without affecting the main arrivals and departures might be useful Many terminal stations would have had a dedicated parcels platform with parcels vans being shunting to and from the main passenger trains. Hope this is useful. Nick