Rick-H

Hi, If I understand you correctly I think what you are looking for is a Colour Light and Theatre Indicator. I have attached a picture of one I made earlier (as they say on the cooking programs), sorry its upside down. It is to OO scale i.e. 1/76, but it would not look out of place on a HO model. I scratch built it except for the LEDs and 7 segment display. It is fully working using a Picaxe, however you could drive it using an Arduino if you wish. The signal is 2 aspect Red / Green, with an Associated Light (2 white) and a 7 segment display, which can give you 0 to 9 and A to F. I used the signal on my last layout at the station throat. It was a 4 track station with a Goods Loop ("L" on the display) and a Goods Siding ("S" really a '5' on the display). The Associated Light gave access to the Loco Shed. If this is what you are looking for please let me know and I can send you my design documents. All the best Rick

Paul, Again, sorry in taking so long to come back to you all. I have had a long talk with SWMBO and we agree that I am getting too old to build a model in a cold damp garage, so she has agreed that I can use the spare bedroom. This has caused me to have a re-think, because the room is a lot smaller than the garage. What I have done is to take all your comments on board and have tried to produced a layout, which I think is much closer to the actual Yeovil Town layout, but still with the double main lines. Please see Xtrack drawing below. Attached is a revised list of train / engine movements, again please check that they are all feasible in my time zone. It gives me some 28 different movements, a lot can be carried out whilst up or down trains are going round. So Grandson should be happy as well as me. Passenger Train movements Up Main to Platform 1 Platform 1 to Up Branch Platform 1 to Up Main Down Branch to Platform 1 Platform 1 to Down Main Up Main to Platform 3 Platform 3 to Up Main Down Main to Platform 4 Platform 4 to Up Main Platform 4 to Down Main Goods Train Movements Up Main to Goods Sidings Up Main Goods to Up Main Up Main Goods to Up Branch Down Main to Goods Sidings Down Main Goods to Down Main Down Branch to Goods Sidings Down Branch to Down Main Goods Sidings to Up Main Goods Sidings to Down Main Goods Siding to Down Branch Light Engine movements Platform 1 West end to Shed Platform 1 East end to Shed Platform 3 East end to Shed Platform 4 West end to Shed Shed to Platform 1 – West end, for Down Shed to Platform 1 – East end, for Branch Shed to Platform 3 – East end, for Up Shed to Platform 4 – West end, for Down I have modified the signal box, as I understand it from the last one. I hope I have got the revised signals in the right places and the correct name for the levers, please check and advise. Thanks again for all your help. Rick

Paul, I did try to design the through platform as you have shown. Two points, 1. the station and parcels office are Metcalfe Kits PO320 & 321 and I have fitted lighting to both buildings and the platform canopy and would be a real pain to change. 2. I wanted to have a fair amount of "town" behind the tracks, especially as I already own everything shown on the layout. Having said that I also wanted to keep the depth to a minimum, as I am not getting any younger to be reaching over. A very good point and one that I will implement. Whilst typing I had a thought. If I remove one line from each fiddle yard it will mean I can move the centre well down some, which will allow an increase to the station board depth. In addition I could then keep the existing station & platform, have the GWR single line a double face platform and a single face platform. Which I belive is what Yeovil Town had. Thank you for your kind offer. Please let me have a play with Xtrack to see if I can fit it all in. I'll get back to you if that is OK. Rick

Chris, I understand and I did try to replicate the original layout, however I do not have the space to have both the goods yard and loco shed as they were. So what I have produced is my comprimise to give me shunting and light engine movements. Rick

I am very sorry you feel that way. I thought my replies showed that I understood your points and gave the reason why I was not implementing them. I did not "dismiss" any of your points. Look on the bright side, someone else may read your post and it will help them no end. Rick

Hi all and sorry again for the delay in replying, I have been on Granddad duty for the last few days and I’m sure you know, it’s a full time job. My replies to the last 2 posts. I don’t think that would help, because the train would still be facing the wrong way and the engine would have to propel on the up line. Likewise using the down / up. I do have one crossover in the fiddle yard, which serves the up / branch / down and is used for the WR and SR pull-push trains. If I want to move a train from down to up, or vice versa, and have it run the correct way I will use the cassette, as there is no room for a reversing loop. I am only using XtrackCAD for the design and that uses set-track. I have all the points (Hornby) and flexi track from my previous layout in France (disassembled when I moved back to the UK). Normally when building a layout I set the station up using 12inches to the foot dimensions, so there are no big gaps for my little people to jump between platform and train. Then I use the flexi track to ease to points and curves to ensure that there are no collisions. Good point, however that would then move signal 1, 2 & 7 and point 8 off scene, which I would rather not do. Good point, however the storage loops are long enough. There is only 80cm reach maximum to any track. I addition the back scene will be curved at the corners and only have buildings in front, so I hope it will not be a problem. Thank you, yes I will move it. As I said, I have all the point already, along with point motors and switches and being a pensioner on limited funds I do not want to be buying new points. Noted, thanks. As stated I will be using flexi track not set-track. Thanks and understand, however that is how the real Yeovil Town had the sidings. It will also give me some shunting to do as relief from grandson just going round and round. All very good points and thanks very much for taking the time. As I said above, I am only using XtrackCAD for the design and that uses set-track. I have all the points (Hornby) and flexi track from my previous layout in France (disassembled when I moved back to the UK). XtrackCAD shows that it all fits in the garage, the build will be using flexi track and Hornby points that I already have. I have used Hornby set-track curved points on all my layouts with no problems. I just make sure that they and the track are completely flat. Paul again thanks. I had a look at your layout, it looks very realistic, however the photo would not open (like so many now). Rick

Mike, Thanks, it's a great help. I am writing the interlocking in software for a Picaxe, so it's a big learning curve for me. Rick

Hi, sorry for the delay in response. Yes I am happy to see any comments. I am still in the design phase, as I need to insulate the garage first. However I would point out that I am trying to replicate Yeovil Town station in a what if. Rick

All, Sorry just posted my reply to Paul and the screen refreshed to show Mike's and Chris's posts, so my post is out of order. Rick

Paul, Rainy day, so more time on my computer. I have updated my master drawing with all your changes. Please do not bother about the red/green dots on each point, these are drilling markers for the control panel LEDs and likewise the boxes with “TC”, these are electrical connections for the model, none of them will show on the final Signal Box drawing. If you would not mine could you please check I have correctly interpreted all the changes? As in the past, I have a few questions. I do not understand why you have called signal 22 “Down Main Inner Home”, as signals 19, 20, 3 & 4 are all “Starters”. I would have thought that a SR train from Junction to Martock would arrive at platform 3 (SR side of station) and start from there via signal 22. Also I do not know where to position signal 23 “Down Branch Home to Down Main”. My understanding is that a WR train from Mill to Martock would arrive at platform 2 (WR side of station) and start from there via signal 20 to the Down Main. In addition you have me foxed by your “starting even though it's on the 'home' side of the box”. I thought that “starting & home” related to the track and direction of train movement. It shows that trying to learn something as complicated as signalling” from websites is not easy LOL. Your “leads” are a great help to me in trying to write the interlocking for the signals, however I do not understand the leads for signal 10 (the 6 or 6 8 part).I thought it would be 11 or 11 12 or Nil or 14, is that correct? Whilst trying to get my drawing as correct as possible I thought I would replace all the images of the signals with the correct symbol. So having searched the web again I have come up with the following. Are they correct for the period mid 50s to mid 60s? Again thanks for helping a complete novice. Rick

Paul, Thanks again, your a star. I'll have a detailed look over the weekend and get back to you. Rick

Mike, Thanks.

Paul, Your 2 replies are great, thanks. My plan is to implement them all from the first post, however just a few questions / responses to your second one. My “pretend” is electrically operated mechanical points with Track Circuits. That way I do not have to run point rods on the model. I will fit dummy Point Motors (mine are solenoid operated below board) and Facing Point Locks, so the FTP levers are just for show. I understand about 2a & 2b, however I did it that way, because in my software (using a PIC to interlock signals with correct point movements) 2a only cleared if signal 2 was pulled and point 4 is reversed. Point 2b only cleared if signal 2 was not pulled and point 4 is reversed. I now know better, thanks will change. “You haven’t got a route from 20 to the Down Platform”, my logic was that I read somewhere that platforms 1 & 2 were WR and platform 3 was SR. Also I have a route from Branch (20) to platform 2 (10) via West Crossover to Down, which I though achieved the same thing. It is very good of you to offer to correctly renumber the signal box and I would like to take you up on the offer. Would it be easer for you if I make the changes above and give you a revised drawing? Again thanks for all your help Rick

Paul, Thank you for your comments. Your point about making signal 25 a main signal is well made, especially as I have M7 class loco number 30129 complete with BR/SR Pull-Push Coach Set 608, just for the Town / Junction shuttle. Rick

Mike, Thank you for your comments. I hope you don’t mind, but they generate a number of questions in my mind. You say “running signals should be 3 aspect - 2a, 12, 20, & 26”. Did you mean signal 1 not 2a, which is an APL? Also, why only 1, 12, 20 & 26 and not 9, 10, 17 & 23? If I remove APLs 13 (you said 12) and 24, why not 2a & 11? In addition if the APLs are removed how would the Light Engine movements be signalled? Re your comments on the Loco Shed Ground Frame, I understand your point, however please allow me modelling licence, as the signal box is in fact my layout control panel. Rick

Hi all. I have been a lurker for quite some time, trying to absorb all the information I can. The only experience I have with railways is modelling, so I had a lot to learn. As I had / given locomotives from GWR/WR, SR and MR, my railway is based upon the Yeovil area where the Great Western Railway and Southern Railway shared Yeovil Town station and had visitors from other railways. The time scale is from early 1950's to mid 1960's i.e. the end of era 4 (BR early crest) to the end of era 5 (BR late crest). In my world I have assumed BR doubled the track between Yeovil Town and Langport Junction and upgraded it to RED availability. They then gave Southern Region running rights over the route. This gave WR a diversionary route and SR a more direct route to North Devon. Then in the 1960’s Mr. Beaching did not close the Yeovil Town to Taunton line, so Yeovil Town station and its shed were not closed. My model is of Yeovil Town, with a lot of licence. It is a double track circle with an 10 track fiddle yard off scene. Below is a list of movements, which defined the signalling layout for the station. Passenger Train movements Up Pull/Push to Platform 1 Platform 1 Pull/Push to Down Up to Platform 2 Platform 2 to Up Platform 2 to Branch Branch to Platform 2 Platform 2 to Down Down to Platform 3 Platform 3 to Down Goods Train Movements Up to Goods Sidings Up Goods Through Up Goods to Branch Down to Goods Sidings Goods Sidings to Up Goods Sidings to Down Light Engine movements Platform 2 East end to Shed Platform 2 West end to Shed Platform 3 West end to Shed Shed to Platform 2 – East end, for Up Shed to Platform 2 – West end, for Down Shed to Platform 3 for Down I have chosen to signal using Colour Lights, as being a pensioner and on limited funds I can scratch build working CL signals. I am sorry for the long story, however I would appreciate it if someone would look at my signalling and comment on it good or bad and advise any changes I should make. Thanks for your help Rick

JohnR Further to your statement "would I need more than one theatre box, given that the Train Tech product cant display different numbers? ". I have designed and made a fully functioning 2 aspect signal with a Theatre Indicator and Associated Light in OO gauge. The signal can take up to 16 inputs to control it and the indicator can display A to F & 0 to 9 (normal 8 bar indicator) depending upon the inputs. See the attached (I hope) photo of the signal. If you or others would like I can go into details. Rick

Forget about other power supplies, wire it as the standard Hornby turntable, as follows: Hope this helps Rick

No I don't think a bridge rectifier will help. I think the problem is that the LED plus 1k resistor is causing too much voltage drop and is therefore not switching off the first transistor, hence only green LED on. What I think we need is a pnp transistor for the first stage. In effect swap tr1 position with r2 position and change tr1 to pnp type. Let me try some ideas. Rick

669cpb, Are you saying that the signal LED stays green whatsoever the position of the point, or it's green and should be red? If the first one, we have a problem. If the second option, move the input to 'E'. If the input is high or floating then green LED should light. If input low then red LED should light. It doesn't matter which side of the point you connect too, you just need the correct signal indication. I don't know the internals of the Seep switch, but assume it's a change over switch with 'F' being the common contact. So the input would see +12volts or close to zero depending on the switch position of the point. Hope it helps. Rick

My pleasure. Keep the circuit in mind, it has so many uses. Rick

669cpb, The way the circuit should work is with the diode open circuit or connected to 12volts the red LED should be off and green on. Connect the diode to 0volts and they should swap i.e. green off and red on. I can not see what transistors you have used, so we may have a problem with base biasing. Please advise the transistors numbers, so I can check for you. Rick

669cpb, As promised, here is my circuit diagram. It does a lot more than you have asked, so I will go through the stages, just in case. I have shown both common anode and cathode panel LED's for you. I use the top one, ie common +12 volts, however the following circuit works with both. The next stage, diodes and TR1 act as a very high impedance input. This stops the panel LED glowing when the switch is not connected to that LED leg. You only need one diode for each point switch. This stage also works as an &Gate, so if you have say 3 points in a route that must be correctly set to clear the signal (light the green LED) then connect each point switch to a separate diode and it will work as follows: for green LED to light point A & point B & point C are high. If any input is low then the green LED will not light. This "Gate" circuit works as a switch. If any input is low transistor TR1 will not switch on. So TR2 will see 12 volts, and switch on lighting the RED signal LED. This in turn will switch off TR3, so no GREEN LED. When all inputs to the Gate are high TR1 switches on, TR2 = off and TR3 = on, so GREEN signal LED is lit. One last thing, if your signal comes with a fitted resistor in the common anode wire you do not need R5 in my circuit. However if the LED's are too bright you can add an additional resistor in R5's position. You will need to play with its value to get the brightness you want. I have given a component list, however most NPN transistors and diodes will work. In fact I source my components from defective garden solar lights. In most cases its the solar panel that fails and they are un-repairable, however they all come with a transistor, a couple of resistors and a diode. A great source. Hope this helps. Any questions please come back to me. Rick

669club, I will post a diagram tomorrow when I am on my laptop. Rick

Deltanw12, Here is a picture of my wiring for point indication. As you can see I use only one LED, which lights to indicate the direction the point is set. I am also using a 15Kohm resistor to reduce the LED brightness to an acceptable level for me. I only bother fitting one point switch to a crossover. If you want the AD / BC indication all you need to do is put another LED & resistor in parallel on each leg of the switch. Don't worry about the two "A" wires, these are for signalling using the one point switch. Hope this helps. Rick