Clem

I agree with that. Two of the gangwayed Gresleys seem to be in maroon - too late to be teak I think. They are seconds and composites, probably two of one and one of the other. The van is intriguing. Without a clearer photo it's hard to identify it. the rear non-gangwayed brake appears to be a Thompson possibly a D340. Hi Tony. Sorry for taking over the thread a bit today. I've learnt a bit though. I can't disagree with Andy (TGH) that until you can stock up your layout with accurate stock, you have to compromise with some RTR to pad out working trains . I call them place-holders. As well as stock, they also come in the shape of buildings with a number of card kits and even a Hornby Dublo double arm signal whilst I build the lattice posted double arm that will go in its place. I'm never anything but amazed at how quickly you seem to work and how little you rely on this concept of place holding bearing in mind the massive volume of locos and stock running on LB. Also today I've been left in awe of Andrew's work and finishing on the Diagram 210 in teak (my favourite passenger vehicles). Just to round it up, here is a Hornby TK (D115) that I modified by filing the tumblehome shape in at the ends, removing the middle lower beading and replacing it with micro strip. It's just a shame that I found out later that the window/panelling layout was incorrect - not by much but nevertheless wrong. I'm still running it.

Yes, I'm sure it's approaching Kirkby South Junction from the North on the GC main line.

Hi Andrew - my fault remembering things incorrectly off the top of my head as usual. It was the 5-35pm Grantham-Derby and here's a picture of it in 1957. Sorry about the quality. Grantham's 64178 at the head. The L1s first arrived at Colwick in 1955 but you're correct that the picture above dated from a little later in 1957. To be fair, I do stretch the era of my layout a bit. Although based on 1955, I do allow some stuff on the layout slightly outside, from 1953-56.

Any information on passenger sets would be most gratefully accepted, Andrew. Here's one or two of photographic examples which absolutely back up your info: First - an A5 with a pair of steel panelled D310s at Basford North with a D210 in the siding to the right. A J6 on a pair of D210s 'back to back' on Bennerley Viaduct near Ilkeston. Not sure what the end vehicle is? An L1 at Hempshill with a very interesting Gresley combination of what I think is a Diagram 294 steel panelled BT (4), a D50 CL and a D210 at the back. And finally at Sutton-in-Ashfield on the GN Leen Valley line, a Diagram 210 with a Gresley BT (5) on the very short lived Nottingham-Victoria-Sutton service revived for a few months only in 1956. I'm not sure of photographers of these but usual copyright rules apply. The 5.06pm Grantham-Derby service was an interesting one as it had through carriages from Kings Cross added to the usual non-gangwayed set. It was a Grantham turn.

Yep my philosophy too. I have to say Andrew, that D210 set looks sublime! I could look at it all day! (But I've got stuff to do, so I won't). Beautiful finishing on a beautifully built model if I may say so. As far as the bars on the end windows, the following is the only clear photo I have of the end windows and this would suggest that there isn't (certainly in LNER days, anyway).

Cheers Andrew. It's something I'll be doing in the future to get that diversity you need for 1950s modelling of the GN in Notts. Completely agree. Have used MJT roofs with my kirk gangway carriages. The shape you've achieved Clive, is pretty well spot on in my opinion.

In one way it's good that they botched the job on the Gresley gangwayed carriages. It leaves us feeling like we can really improve them by putting in replacement sides or as I've done with one, attempt to correct both the shape and beading on the original sides. Also, it serves to give those of us (like me) that need a kick up the backside to attempt some real modelling to both improve them and encourage us to expand the variety and diversity to our stock. Sometimes, the silver lining far outweighs the initial black cloud.

Morning Jonathan. Presumably to allow for the guards' buckets without compromising the loading gauge ??

Hi Jack - I gave a description in an answer to Headstock on the last page. I'll save you the tedium of searching for it.... :-) "For the AF container shackles , the screw shackle is a Roxy Mouldings brass fret. Above that, there is a short section of chain from Eileen's (just 3 links I think) fastened at both ends (to the screw and to the container at the top) with links made from 0.31N/S. Below the screw shackle, I've used 0.8mm tube (0.4mm inner diameter) about 2.5mm long to represent the spring link, threaded with 0.31mm N/S wire fashioned into hooks at each end. The top hooking into the shackle and the bottom into the container flat end side ring which is itself fabricated from 0.31 N/S wire. I'm not sure it would survive closer scrutiny but from a reasonable distance it looks pretty convincing. " What I didn't mention was that each link was progressively soldered up taught as I went along as per Geoff Kent's method. The distance between the tab for ring on the container and the ring on flat (i.e the length of the link) was approximately 18mm. I hope that helps.

Having made the skeleton, what do you use to 'skin' it? 10 thou plasticard?

The J69 in my video is one of the last batch with the wide cab (68629 based at Colwick) and is from a Connoisseur kit. The Leicester shunter (great photo btw) is one of the earlier batches with narrow cab and tanks but with side tanks subsequently widened as can be seen clearly in the photo. Its wheels suggest it is one of a batch designed for shunting rather that passenger work. J69s really are a great favourite with most steam locomotive enthusiasts. Something very appealing about them.

Evening Andrew. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished BT 7, it's looking good. Yes, I've certainly seen several photos of them on the Grantham-Derby line and the sets you describe certainly ring a bell, particularly that slightly incongruous placing of Thompsons together with a GC carriage. I've not fabricated a roof using your described method before, I think I've always used MJT or Kirk (for non-gangwayed stock) roofs in my very limited passenger stock building history. But the method you've describes sounds spot on to get that GC roof profile. I have to take my hat off to you for your incredibly detailed knowledge of passenger formations in my neck of the woods. When I can get to doing some carriage building, I really want to get that variation that you seemed to get around the early to mid 50s. Regarding the vans, most of the train hauled by the K2 has been put together in the few weeks. I've tried to get a bit of variation as you've suggested and that is still in progress. One other similar train that will be needed but not yet built, is the Burton-York beer train and in fact one or two of these vans may end up being part of it. But also included will be shock absorbing vans and opens, some beer tankers and some low fits with road tanker trailers strapped on top. Looking forward to trying to put that one together. For the AF container shackles , the screw shackle is a Roxy Mouldings brass fret. Above that, there is a short section of chain from Eileen's (just 3 links I think) fastened at both ends (to the screw and to the container at the top) with links made from 0.31N/S. Below the screw shackle, I've used 0.8mm tube (0.4mm inner diameter) to represent the spring link, threaded with 0.31mm N/S wire fashioned into hooks at each end. The top hooking into the shackle and the bottom into the container flat end side ring which is itself fabricated from 0.31 N/S wire. I'm not sure it would survive closer scrutiny but from a reasonable distance it looks pretty convincing.

Thanks Jamie and Andy for the video advice. I'll give it a go.... First of all here's the latest couple of additions to the layout. Let's see if I can get this working..... Here's (hopefully??) a down class E partially fitted freight hauled by Colwick K2 61751..... Apologies if this doesn't work....

Hi Andrew. Lovely GC BT 7. How will you tackle the roof? BTW I'd love to see LSGC again. Anything planned for next year? (Not sure I can get to Bradford). On a different subject, can anyone confirm or otherwise how you post a video on RMWeb? Is it just a link to YouTube?

Congratulations, Tony. It's a brilliant thread. It's great to see what you and so many other talented modellers are working on and to admire the sheer skill and craftsmanship involved. I'm please to see other people apart from myself see a number and equate it to an locomotive. (usually LNER post 1946 numbering). I'm half way through the O4s on consecutive day two and a half mile walks without missing a day. (ten years plus if you're wondering) and most of my passwords and pin numbers are railway connected. Chris thinks I'm a nutter. But it doesn't show when you're in a crowd of them.

I'm just half way through a van building program at the moment. Here's the present lot, the front line and one or two on the back line ready for the weathering paint shop.... The front three are old Airfix vans with a new chassis, most of the rest are Parkside.

A couple of brilliant posts this morning, (not taking anything away from the other posts), but first from Flyingscotsmanfan, it's refreshing and very encouraging to see a relative youngster have such a creative approach, making lovely accurate models from battered cast-offs. The workbench looks great to me! Secondly, what a brilliant piece of film from Porcy Mane. Looks to be late 1957 or early 1958? Captures the period beautifully. Some great views of locos and rolling stock from different angles. Thank you, it's really brightened up my morning (which to be fair was pretty bright to start with!).

Great effort, Tony. I think you're getting there. Talking of Michael Mensing here's the one of 6006 approaching Solihull. Doesn't need rod blur on this - the steam and smoke does the job!

When I used to try this with the real thing (on preserved lines) I'd be down to 1/15th sec. As you said above, huge failure rate but worth trying. You may get the blurring of the rods at that setting and in my opinion that gives a look of real speed.

Hi John. That is true for me too. The big problem is when you're unaware of the anomaly and then post build, you find out. Left with a 'do I ignore it?' , 'do I modify it? is it possible?' or 'do I scrap it/sell it to someone less discerning?' conundrum. ... Any one want any elongated Bachmann BR cattle vans - can't be bothered with a cut and shut for these.... And then the question.. 'why produce something so good and detailed and accurate in most respects but yet get one of the basic dimensions completely wrong?'

Hi Tony. I'd be interested in knowing what shutter speed are you using? Looking at the blurred background, I think you've capture the speed but one of the things that always fascinated me when I watched the pacifics, V2s and 60700 through Newark in the late 50s and early 60s was the blurred rods especially around the big end as they tore past. Might be worth experimenting with a longer time lapse to see if you can get that. Of course, it makes it so much harder to get a crisp shot of the rest of the loco and train. If engines on my layout exceeded a scale 40mph the crew would get a nose bleed.... (that'd be me). But that's just the nature of a hard working secondary line.

Just a little post in praise of the humble Parkside kits (and a follow up to Tony's 7mm Parkside posting a few pages back). Such a joy building these well thought out and easy to put together kits - I've been building them for years. Here's the latest - a diagram 116 ventilated van (with a diagram 102 behind). Talking of cricket we went to the T20 Notts v Yorkshire yesterday at Trent Bridge. Notts somehow rescued victory from what seemed like a lost cause to go through to the quarter finals. But the biggest cheer by all fans, including those form Yorkshire) was when Stokes hit those winning runs - all communicated by the thousands there listening on the radio. It capped a perfect sporting weekend for me. Forest winning at Fulham, Notts in the T20 and of course England against Australia. Just a note about Notts. They're a very good one-day and T20 side but the poorest of the poor this season when it comes to the 4day game. Relegation beckons this season. Jesse, I am really surprised that you're not into cricket. I have to say I've never met an Aussie who wasn't nuts about cricket (and didn't try to rub it in about 5-0 ashes defeats of the past) .

Hi GC, yes I have a copy of 'The Back Line'. Excellent book and a brilliant read. My only quibble with it was Hayden's consistent inability to get the O4 sub classifications right - e.g. describing O4/8s as O4/4s in several places. It's an irritating error that creeps into quite a few ex-LNER books. I remember seeing O4/8s described as O1/7s in one book! I can't understand what it is about the O4 sub classes that seems to confuse railway authors! Talking of the joint LNER/LMS venture, this certainly was the case for the new double track branch line to Calverton Colliery although I think it was very early nationalisation before it was built. I remember visiting the Midland's Bestwood Park Junction in the late 80s and it was surprising how much remained at that stage. But a combination of the re-opening of the line to passenger services (the Robin Hood Line) and the arrival of the tram wiped most of it away, although if I'm not mistaken, some of the sidings remain under dense overgrowth. That whole stretch from Bulwell to Annesley must have been fascinating in the earlier years with the GC, the GN and the Midland snaking around each other for a few miles, each crossing the other more than once! The GC and GN came together at Annesley to share the Annesley tunnel, only to separate once again on the North side into three lines at Kirkby South Junction, the GN Leen Valley, the Mansfield Railway and the GC main line to Chesterfield and Sheffield. It's a shame we've lost so much.

Tony, may I ask why you wished to know where Bestwood Junction was? Ahhh, my neck of the woods..... Bestwood Junction on the GN Leen Valley line was the junction going South between the GN line to Colwick and the line built in 1898 to link with the new GC line to Nottingham and the London extension. There had already been a junction there facing the other way, for the Bestwood Colliery branch and up until 1898 this junction was known as Moorbridge Junction after 1898 the new signal box was renamed Bestwood Junction. The Leen Valley was a very busy line - all freight after 1933 - with most of the traffic going to Colwick - the left hand fork of the Junction. After Mapperley Tunnel on the Nottingham 'back line' closed for safety reasons in April 1960, it cut the route into Colwick and pretty well all traffic then took the left fork into Bulwell Common on the GC line. It was this closing of Mapperley Tunnel that accelerated the closure of the ex-LNER lines around Nottingham. I should add that in the aerial photo (great photo!) above the junction at the bottom of the photo is heading South - the one to the left to Colwick and the one in the centre to Bulwell Common and Nottingham Vic. The junction to the top of the photo is the original Moorbridge Junction, the line to the right to Bestwood Colliery with the main line up to Annesley and beyond, the left fork. The line to the centre left is the Midland Railway to Mansfield with its own branch to Bestwood coming off and veering right under the GN to the colliery. I know, I know.... too much information. The missus usually stops me when I go on too much.

Not quite, Tony - I'm 68 and still remember J5s the last of which went in 1955!