asarnot

Interesting pic in the July issue of 'Backtrack' mag. (Other mags etc. are available), as part of an article about Eric Lomax - The Railwayman - who was captured by the Japanese during WWII. He was a keen railway photographer, and his shot shows a GNoS 0-4-4T shunting Kirkcaldy station up yard. All the old buildings are visible, including the transit shed and the old E & N goods shed, together with such lost landmarks as Hogarth's mill and a bit of Barry's. Presumably the loco was allocated to Thornton at the time. Andy

Visited Kirkcaldy by train last week. First time in ages, and was interested to see that the down goods loop (or is it now a siding?) is still in place, together with the access crossover and shunt signal. I thought they had been removed during track renewal a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, I had no camera with me. And yes, in reply to a previous post, there was a crossover at the south (up) end of the station. This was used in particular by the Sunday Edinburgh - Kirkcaldy trains for the loco, usually a V1/V3 tank, to run round the stock. I attended Abbotshall Kirk in those far off days, and the manoeuvre was usually attended by much whistling to alert the signalman when the loco had cleared the crossover. This usually occurred in the middle of the sermon when the minister was calling down fire and brimstone on the heads of the unsuspecting congregation. Andy.

Thanks for the info Graham. I certainly don't recall either a down splitting home or distant, but, as you say, the layout would probably have been altered long before I became aware in the 50's/60's. Andy

Caley 0-4-4T locos of the '439' class worked in the Bradford area in LMS days, and I think also much further south (Nottingham perhaps?). Also 0-4-0 ST 'pugs' worked in Lancashire, and one was famously a shunter at Crewe.

I expect many of you will have seen the article in February's edition of 'Steam Days' by John McNab re a trip from Dundee to Edinburgh in early BR days. Not much on Kirkcaldy, but there is an interesting pic of Invertiel Junction. Now, I must have passed this location scores of times, but I can't remember the signalling layout here. Was there a splitting down 'home' for the branch, or was it controlled solely by a ground disc? I seem to remember that the up distant was paired with Kirkcaldy advance starter at Nicol Street underbridge, but of course it all changed when Seafield colliery and the new cabin opened.

No McChoppers? Dear dear! They were frequently used for passenger services on the West Highland and Oban lines during the summer only - no train heat. Here's a freshly done up D8088 at Oban in 1967-ish. Andy.

Have been out of the loop for a week or two, so missed the info re empty cask wagon traffic from Kirkcaldy Harbour - so thanks to Lochty, Ian et al. Regarding the transportation of barrels in secure vehicles, I suppose the best known would be the ex-Palvans converted to CLV's or Crown Lockfast Vehicles for Johnnie Walker. Whilst restoring one of same at Dunaskin for the ARPG we found evidence of the inner sheeting heavily scored by the metal hoops on the barrel ends. The conversion to CLV's seemed to consist mostly of beefing up door locks and catches and welding up most of the exposed nuts on the bodywork. (A bu**er when you are trying to replace side pannelling. The floor timbers are quite heavy, but I don't know if they are 'as built'. JW had 20 of these vans, but the number series runs from CLV one ninety odd into the two teens, so I don't know whether others such as Haig would also have similar vehicles to fill the gap from CLV 1 to CLV 190. Most photos I have seen of Markinch or Cameron Bridge show plenty of BR and preGroup 12T box vans around, but few, if any, Palvans. Please find a wee photie of our van at Waterside. Andy.

Many (many!) moons ago, my first attempt at 4mm scale modelling was a freelance, but allegedly, NBR layout. No R-T-R stuff was available then, and very few kits, so locos were scratchbuilt. However, I did discover a Ratio? kit of an LNER cask wagon, supposedly of NBR origin. There were very few details re usage of these wagons, and no photos supplied with the kit, but much later I came across a pic of one in LNER livery, and lettered 'Return to Scottish South Area'. Later still, I discovered a further photo of the same wagon - ID'd from running number-, but in NBR livery, and lettered 'Return to Kirkcaldy when empty'. As far as I can discover, there may have been about half a dozen of these vehicles, but why were they allocated to Kirkcaldy? I have never found any reference to a major brewery or a cooperage in the town, and although there were considerable connections with malting for distilling, malted barley doesn't travel in barrels. Sadly the model has long since gone to the big Muir's in the sky, and my 4mm modelling has for many years been based on the West Highland practice. Incidentally Ian, Pete's 'Pirate' still survives on this layout, although having been rebuilt ages ago - with Pete's permission - as D34 Glenfinnan, when the original motor and chassis succumbed to old age. Despite my attempts at rebuilding, Pete's original craftsmanship still shines through! Andy.

Further to previous posts, by coincidence the current NBR Study Group magazine has a reproduction of a print of the factory of Hendry, Whyte & Strachan, floorcloth manufacturers, Kirkcaldy. In the foreground appears to be a P.O. version of the later NB floorcloth wagon. I am not certain, but I think Hendry, W & S were later part of Barry's empire.

There were at least 5 'floorcloth' wagons for the transportation of linoleum, and all were based at Kirkcaldy. These were as follows, 2 no. to NBR Diag 80, ( LNER Diag 83B), built about 1880-ish, NB 25687, 25688 2 no. to NBR Diag 83, (LNER Diag. 84B), built between 1880 - 1890, NB 25689, 25690. 1 no. to NBR Diag 80, (LNER Diag. 83B), built about 1890, NB 25686. All were long wheelbase 6 wheeled vehicles, with handbrakes acting on the centre wheels, with the lever at the right hand end. The only difference between the two diagrams appears to be the number of planks per side, with the former having three planks, and the latter four. The Dragon kit appears to be the Diag 80 variant. All survived WWII, the LNER having added 700000 to the running numbers, eg 725689, and to have carried out some minor modifications to upgrade, but none appears to have made it into BR days. There doesn't seem to be any reference to either type in Peter Tatlow's 'Record of LNER wagons', although other NBR stock is well represented. I have heard the large grey timber shed in Kirkcaldy station Up yard referred to as the Transit Shed (later the NCL shed), apparently because at some time it had been much used for the dispatch of linoleum traffic, but I used to wonder why, as both Nairn's and Barry's were well seved with sidings in their own right.

I am always pleasantly surprised by the amount of gen you guys can come up with. Even a simple query results in a veritable avalanche of info. However, the headcode info I was enquiring about was the early style - late fifties to early sixties - when the train classification was shown by a letter, ie. 'A' - express or limited stop, 'B' - stopping passenger, and 'C' - empty stock, followed by a number from '1' to '9' for the route description. For example, I seem to remember quite a few 'B2' displays, but as I was at Uni in Edinburgh by this time, these may not have been Fife services. Also, as I said before, many units displayed 'B blank', per the attached. There were no codes for freight services at this time, and the early Swindon Inter city units of the 79xxx series just had a sort of interchangeable tin stencil showing 'A', 'B' or 'C',as appropriate. Not a great shot, but it is actually showing 'A' for a limited stop (Edinburgh - Glasgow) service. As this system was pretty sparse in the information it could display, the format was reversed In the early sixties to include freight working, with the first numeral becoming the type of service and the second letter denoting the route, as per all the gen noted in replies above. Incidentally, you can just discern a small painted board at the extreme left hand corner of the Class 101 windscreen in the upper photo above. I think this may have been the duty reporting number, which was mentioned in the previous discussion on unit numbers ( or the lack of them in the early days). Anyway, i seem to recall that most if not all units had one of these boards propped up on view somewhere in the driver's windscreen. AFAIR they showed two letter with three numbers below.

There seems to have been a lot of gen uncovered via this topic on dmu workings in Fife, and although not interested in these at the time (ie 60's and 70's), I wonder if anyone has any info. on the 2 character headcodes used on workings in this area. I seem to remember 'B2' as being common, but many units ran displaying 'B blank', or indeed no code at all. Were the codes for Thornton Jct via Kirkcaldy different to those via Cowdenbeath for example? I don't think 4 character codes were used much at all - in fact the only one I can remember was on seeing a unit with a roof box indicator (no idea which class) displaying '2L22', as it headed into the down loop from the platform, and I wouldn't know whether that was a genuine indication or not, as it was on the last vehicle of the set.

Although the Metro Cammell triples were by far the most common units (either in 3car or 6car formation) to be seen in the early days of DMU operations in Fife, the Gloucester twin units could frequently be found, usually a 6 car set of 3xtwins. One duty that they regularly performed for several years was the Edinburgh - Kirkcaldy Sunday local service, again in a six car formation, as successors to the V1/V3 tank hauled LNER non corridor sets. I have no pix of the latter, but here is one of the former.

This thread is turning into a fascinating account of the industrial archeology of Kirkcaldy, thanks to Keefer and Nielgue. I was particularly intrigued by the Aerofilms shot of the Den Road and Nairns' complex to the north of the railway, as this is how I remember it from my youth. How sad to see the whole area of linoleum production south of the railway has completely vanished, as has Kilgour's flour mill and maltings and Ferguson's timber yard to the north of Smeaton Road. There were rail connections across Den Road to serve the latter - these possibly being the rump of the lines to the old Pannie Pit (Dunnikier Collieries?), which occupied a site between the East Burn and Hayfield Road. I was also intrigued by Lochty's pix of NCB No. 17. Would this be AB 2292 of 1951, by any chance, and is the lettering original? If so, she was delivered new to the Nellie Colliery, passing to Bowhill in 1953. Although not, as far as I can see ever 'allocated' to the Dubbie, she did spend some time at Dysart workshops, and would doubless have also been employed shunting at the pit. This loco went to Manor Powis in 1966, and then Kinneil in 1971. By this time records are a bit confused, as the NCB amalgamated Scottish Area had no fewer than 4 working locos - all numbered 17. I do hope you manage to restore her to steam in the near future, but watch out for cracking round the firehole door. Andy.

Very interesting photos by Neilgue, especially of the former Invertiel Harbour branch. I hadn't realised that there were so many traces left. Following a bit of rummaging for something else entirely, I discovered the following couple of slides in my 'discards' box. The originals are unviewable, but a bit of 'Photoshopping' discovered scenes of the Dubbie branch, taken in 1981. The loco is NCB No. 30, a Barclay 16 incher, works 2259 of 1949, sitting amongst the general dereliction, and the other pic is of the fine North British Railway lower quadrant 'home' guarding the White Gates crossing of Normand Road. I do hope this signal has been preserved, as it must have been one of the last few working LQs in normal service. Perhaps Keefer or Lochty will know.