vonmarshall

For anybody interested, I found a photo on Didcot’s FB of a 1925 built articulated coach set at Weymouth in August 1929 and you can clearly see the fake panelling has been replaced with the simpler post 1927 livery already so it lasted less than 4 years. https://www.facebook.com/DidcotRailwayCentre/photos/a.210517012308528/3770424132984447/?type=3

Not sure if anybody is interested, but I recently came across a new webpage (new to me at least) when researching whether I could legitimately run a Bavarian S3/6 with my Elettren CIWLs. Very well written. https://trainconsultant.com/2019/06/22/the-orient-express-train-of-mistakes-mistake-of-train/

Many thanks that is excellent. From the link... "In general, a coach livery pre-WWI was expected to last approximately 10–12 years before repainting was necessary. From 1922 onward, with the re-introduction of the brown and cream body colours, it seems less varnishing was applied, and the repainting interval for non-express stock dropped to approximately 7 years. For express stock, the pace of repainting seems to have accelerated during the mid- to late-1920s as a result of the GWR Board voting for extra funds to be made available to hasten the repainting program. As a consequence, it was rare to see a crimson lake corridor coach after 1927/8, and rare to find a fully-lined (pre-1927) corridor coach after c 1930. Assessing what livery a coach should be in a particular era, especially when the official livery was changing quite rapidly (throughout the 1920s, and post-1948) is therefore difficult, and some intelligent guesswork needs to be applied using the build date of a coach. As always, good contemporary pictures help considerably." I think that I could go either then for a 1925 set as they would have been in 1929. I do have a photo of one of the Ocean Mails (M15 I think) vans in 1929 in full lining so maybe I will keep that as a single fully lined option for variation.

For my sins I have picked 1929 as the year that I model, 2 years after the switch from the fully lined livery to the simpler, but still elegant dual tone. I am in the middle of building a set of the the 1925 Articulated coaches (the Restaurant / Kitchen triplet). As built in 1925, they were in the magnificent fully lined livery. And there are photos in Russel of a set in 1936 in the new Roundel livery. Does anybody know how frequently coaches that would have been main-line and reasonably prestige, would have been repainted? Would 1925 stock have stayed fully lined for a decade? Or would they have been repainted after about 5 years in the interim livery? In Russel there are a few wonderful photos of some of the older stock such as H19 and H26 repainted in 1930/31, but I cannot find any photos of the articulated stock in this period. My gut feel is that 4 year old stock would not have been repainted so quickly and they would have focused on the older carriages that needed work. For instance there is a great photo I have taken in Millbay of H20 and a Clerestory and both are repainted and unlined. What do you all think?

Thanks Harlequin I too have seen that. It seems the coaches disappear from 1915ish until after the war from any public photos. I am leaning towards including them in 1930’s Plymouth specials but would love corroboration

I am working on several possible rakes for Ocean Traffic in 1929-1932 and started a thread many moons ago about the Super Saloons (and we diverted to Pullmans) here... I have recently been re-reading some of my Harris books and there were two types of coach in particular that I would love to represent at this time, although there is no evidence I can find that they were used on these trains. In 1928-1930, there were c250 ships that arrived per year, and up to 5 trains run for each ship, so I can always use modellers licence, but if there is some actual evidence, I am always keen to find it. In 1911, sets of 70' toplights were made specifically for the Fishguard traffic, and included magnificent 70' Firsts (A10) and Brake 1sts (A11). But after WW1, I believe Cunard stopped going to Fishguard and all traffic was now via Plymouth. As such I would expect these coaches found their way onto that route. Does anybody know if this is the case and whether there are any photos to back this up? My other question is linked to the early Clerestory stock. One photo I have of one of the Ocean Mails coaches which was taken at Millbay, clearly shows a clerestory attached, both of them repainted in the simpler post-1927 livery and apparently taken in 1935. https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/70-apos-rfbk-gw-8303-diag-h20-at-train-end-plymouth-millbay-f3r-kitchen-side-brake-end-nearest-part-clerestory-car-right.html I can guess which diagram the clerestory may be, but it made me wonder if the wonderful Directors Saloons were also ever used in these boats. Again, to my mind, it stands to logic that this sort of traffic would have had reason to use a saloon like this, but again I have no evidence. Can anyone help?

Hi all Long time lurker here. My original plan was to work in 7mm or even G1 and I have some lovely stock and kits in these scales, but we are moving house soon and I will have a much smaller garden to play with and have decided that I will have a lot more fun with 4mm. As such I am going to be selling them and starting to build my 4mm stock. I am building a nice long loop to sit back and watch the trains go by, so my first criteria is that I want to have robust, smooth, consistent chassis / bogies and running characteristics. This has made me mull over trying to modify / use the best RTR coach chassis I can find. In my head, a modern well made RTR should theoretically be truer than any home made folded brass bogie. Or am I being niaive? My interests are rather particular and I am building up several rakes of carriages to represent the 1929/1930 era and will be including lots of 70' stock and interesting restaurant cars. I am also keen on high detail where practical and with the sort of toplights and even concertina coaches I want to run, I know I need to work with the range of kits and brass parts that seem readily available from companies like CPL and Worsely. I am a very experienced modeller and comfortable working with a soldering iron and multimedia kits, but I am new to coach kit building. I have read all the books and feel ready to go. So if you were me, what would you do? Is there a RTR coach chassis / bogies that are particularly well rated from a running point of view that I should utilise and are there any kit / side manufacturers that you would particularly recommend? Thanks for any input and ideas.

Here is a lovely photo of a King in duty in 1960 with what looks like about 8-10 tanks and a full brake between Cardiff and Paddington. Very dirty tanks! https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p956313545

I believe I have seen a similar photo of a King or Castle with a load of Dining cars and kitchens being hauled empty down to Plymouth in one of the Books / Magazines I have. What a great formation to model! I have all of the Coach books, Plymouth in the 30's, relevant GWR journals on articulated and Pullmans, Backtrack volumes on Restaurant cars and the Hubback collection along with all of the photos I can find online, but if you know of somewhere else I should be looking, do let me know.

That is great info Mike and a wonderful photo! Do you have any other photos you can share? Do you think any of the articulated dining sets were ever used?

Sorry to reliven this old thread but I cannot seem to stop looking more and more into the fascinating (in my mind at least!) special trains put together for all of the Ocean Traffic. I am an odd sort of modeller, my focus being on running prototypically correct formations behind my GWR Castle and just sitting back and watching it trundle around the garden. I have several "Ocean" rakes made up using much of the info I have gathered here and in all of the books and magazines I can find. I did have a question about the pre-29 era, particularly 27 and 28. The Pullmans were not available yet but there were over 200 liners a year arriving at Millbay and up to 5 special trains leaving in a single day! My assumption would be that there would be a large 1st class requirement and this is supported by the existence of H20, the 1st Restaurant / Kitchen / Brake (and to a lesser extend the 12 wheeler H22) both of which were seen a lot on these specials. But all of the info I can find about suitable 1st class stock, particularly A10 and A11 (70' 1st and 70' 1st Brake) was that they were made for the Fishguard boat trains (and never seemingly had a dining car set to go with them). Do any of you know if these 70' 1sts made it onto the Plymouth traffic? My assumption would be that they would have indeed been called into action, especially before the Pullmans or the Saloons existed.

That is great info! Many thanks

This is a fascinating topic. My focus is an earlier period, the late 20's and early 30's. Does anybody know much about this time and what a Milk train (either up or down) would have looked like in the Devon area? I would love to know whether Castles or Stars were seen on duty. And how many tankers were normal. And whether they were a mix of dairies or all the same livery. And what sort of Siphons and Brakes may have been involved too. I am also assuming that sometimes a tanker or 2 were attached to one of the Newspaper trains or even some of the relied express formations. If there is any photographic evidence then please let me know.

Fred, you are costing me a fortune! I keep coming back to your Gauge 1 Aster 241 and cannot help but feel that I am going to end up regretting building an O gauge collection, always craving 1/32! I am in collection mode. I work full time and have a gorgeous, large garden and a dream for me has been to build a single long line meandering around the garden to haul only one or two of my favourite trains. The original thought was for a 10-12 Train Bleu or Orient Express with a 241, an 8 coach Golden Arrow behind a Britannia and then, if funds allowed, a 10-12 coach LMS Mail train with Duchess up front and a LNER P2 with 10-12 Teaks. In O gauge that was rather stretching the budget and in G1 it will be a no-no. I have 10 years to collect the locos and coaches and have already got the Pullmans for the Golden Arrow in O. But I now find myself thinking have just 2 trains, a 7 coach Orient Express as you detailed in your first answer, and a 7 coach UK Golden Arrow behind a G1AM Britannia. That will cost the same as 4 long O gauge trains. I have been out in the garden working it out and reckon I can get a 150-200m long run around the edge with half of it raised and half at ground level. The sound of live steam, and the melody of G1 coaches rocking in a scale manner is a sight to behold. You clearly have both options on your clever track. If you were only able to have 1, which would you prefer? A couple of G1 trains or a wider selection of O gauge? Does the weight and feel of G1 give you more pleasure than the volume of O gauge?

As a matter of interest, what is the loco at the head of this train? Is it a 231 Chapeleon without deflectors? If so, when would the deflectors have been added and what livery would it have carried when deflectorless? And what livery in the late 30’s? Understanding French Eras and liveries is a new minefield for me!