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  1. Here is a lovely photo of a King in duty in 1960 with what looks like about 8-10 tanks and a full brake between Cardiff and Paddington. Very dirty tanks! https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p956313545
  2. I believe I have seen a similar photo of a King or Castle with a load of Dining cars and kitchens being hauled empty down to Plymouth in one of the Books / Magazines I have. What a great formation to model! I have all of the Coach books, Plymouth in the 30's, relevant GWR journals on articulated and Pullmans, Backtrack volumes on Restaurant cars and the Hubback collection along with all of the photos I can find online, but if you know of somewhere else I should be looking, do let me know.
  3. That is great info Mike and a wonderful photo! Do you have any other photos you can share? Do you think any of the articulated dining sets were ever used?
  4. Sorry to reliven this old thread but I cannot seem to stop looking more and more into the fascinating (in my mind at least!) special trains put together for all of the Ocean Traffic. I am an odd sort of modeller, my focus being on running prototypically correct formations behind my GWR Castle and just sitting back and watching it trundle around the garden. I have several "Ocean" rakes made up using much of the info I have gathered here and in all of the books and magazines I can find. I did have a question about the pre-29 era, particularly 27 and 28. The Pullmans were not available yet but there were over 200 liners a year arriving at Millbay and up to 5 special trains leaving in a single day! My assumption would be that there would be a large 1st class requirement and this is supported by the existence of H20, the 1st Restaurant / Kitchen / Brake (and to a lesser extend the 12 wheeler H22) both of which were seen a lot on these specials. But all of the info I can find about suitable 1st class stock, particularly A10 and A11 (70' 1st and 70' 1st Brake) was that they were made for the Fishguard boat trains (and never seemingly had a dining car set to go with them). Do any of you know if these 70' 1sts made it onto the Plymouth traffic? My assumption would be that they would have indeed been called into action, especially before the Pullmans or the Saloons existed.
  5. This is a fascinating topic. My focus is an earlier period, the late 20's and early 30's. Does anybody know much about this time and what a Milk train (either up or down) would have looked like in the Devon area? I would love to know whether Castles or Stars were seen on duty. And how many tankers were normal. And whether they were a mix of dairies or all the same livery. And what sort of Siphons and Brakes may have been involved too. I am also assuming that sometimes a tanker or 2 were attached to one of the Newspaper trains or even some of the relied express formations. If there is any photographic evidence then please let me know.
  6. Fred, you are costing me a fortune! I keep coming back to your Gauge 1 Aster 241 and cannot help but feel that I am going to end up regretting building an O gauge collection, always craving 1/32! I am in collection mode. I work full time and have a gorgeous, large garden and a dream for me has been to build a single long line meandering around the garden to haul only one or two of my favourite trains. The original thought was for a 10-12 Train Bleu or Orient Express with a 241, an 8 coach Golden Arrow behind a Britannia and then, if funds allowed, a 10-12 coach LMS Mail train with Duchess up front and a LNER P2 with 10-12 Teaks. In O gauge that was rather stretching the budget and in G1 it will be a no-no. I have 10 years to collect the locos and coaches and have already got the Pullmans for the Golden Arrow in O. But I now find myself thinking have just 2 trains, a 7 coach Orient Express as you detailed in your first answer, and a 7 coach UK Golden Arrow behind a G1AM Britannia. That will cost the same as 4 long O gauge trains. I have been out in the garden working it out and reckon I can get a 150-200m long run around the edge with half of it raised and half at ground level. The sound of live steam, and the melody of G1 coaches rocking in a scale manner is a sight to behold. You clearly have both options on your clever track. If you were only able to have 1, which would you prefer? A couple of G1 trains or a wider selection of O gauge? Does the weight and feel of G1 give you more pleasure than the volume of O gauge?
  7. As a matter of interest, what is the loco at the head of this train? Is it a 231 Chapeleon without deflectors? If so, when would the deflectors have been added and what livery would it have carried when deflectorless? And what livery in the late 30’s? Understanding French Eras and liveries is a new minefield for me!
  8. I read that too and from the same site the description of the Rome Express imcludes “Passengers from London leave Victoria at 11 am. The Southern Railway’s boat express is primarily part of the “Golden Arrow” service between London and Paris. The connecting boat from Dover arrives at Calais at 2.50 pm. As with the “Orient Express”, we shall perhaps see at Calais only two sleeping cars attached to an ordinary Northern Railway of France boat train, which follows the route of the “Golden Arrow” through Boulogne, Abbeville, and Amiens to the Gare du Nord in Paris. Thence the through sleeping cars are worked round the Paris Ceinture or “Belt” Railway to the PLM Terminus of the Gare de Lyon.” From the same website, when talking about the Golden Arrow, there is a picture of Calais with the following comment... “AT CALAIS the passengers are transferred to the Paris Express, seen here on the quay of the Gare Maritime. On the sides of the Pullman cars are painted arrows of gold. Some of the sleeping-cars form a part of the celebrated “Blue Train” which runs from Paris to the Riviera. One of the sleepers, labelled “Rome”, is attached at Paris to the equally famous “Rome Express”.”
  9. You are a source of amazing information! #3544 worked the Rome Express in 38-39 so conceivably made its way up to Calais as part of the Fleche d’Or. My thinking therefore is I could use 2 LX sleepers, a selection of Pullman 1st and 2nd class couplets and a pair off different forgons to create a truly visually interesting and historically accurate formation. Would you concur? Re the loco, I am hunting down a 241A. The P came along a bit late for my preferred era I believe. I did not know the honour of leading the Fleche d’Or fell on a 231. I may have to employ some artistic licence because the 241 is perfectly proportioned in my eye and I only have one loco per rake on my railway and this is likely to be my only French loco. However I shall revisit the 231 Chapeleons to see what my options could be.
  10. I should probably rename this thread because the pictures have opened up more questions than answers! Let me start by stating that I have a single line in the garden for O gauge and I only watch the trains go by. I exclusively like long express trains with 10+ coaches and tend to like running as prototypical formation as possible. Most of my focus is 1930's UK mainline with the following rakes in process of being created: LNER P2 hauled express with 11 LNER teak coaches including the triplet diner LMS Duchess hauled Queen Scot with 13 LMS Period II and Period III coaches with a 12 wheel diner GWR Castle hauled "Ocean Liner" special with Ocean Mails van, Super Saloons and 70' Collet stock Because I had travelled in #3544 on the VSOE and I also happen to love the 241 locomotive, my original thought was to model the SOE. But in the garden, I can run long rakes and there is nothing like watching an impressive loco pulling a heavy load, so given the info above I am leaning towards recreating Le Train Bleu or maybe even the Fleche D'Or. Re the latter, the 1936 Fleche D'Or seems to include 2 sleepers along with the Pullmans and the rather interesting Fourgon at the back. But it seems odd to me that a train that only ran from Calais to Paris would have sleepers. Would they be sleepers for a through train, maybe linking onto the Train Bleu and on to Nice or Rome? And whilst talking about the Fleche D'Or, would all of the Pullmans (and the loco) have carried the big gold arrows on the side? Sorry for all the questions but this is a fascinating subject to me!
  11. Thank you for the link. I had a feeling things would not be simple and it turns out I was right! I am normally a fan of 1930’s GWR express trains which is a total minefield of what was used and when, but at least all of the info is in English. My schoolboy French is not cutting it on the French forums!
  12. Sorry I was not clear. I meant the top one. Pity.
  13. Thanks for the heads up. I am leaning towards a 1930's era so that is very relevant. Late 20's early 30's works well for me so will go for LX. Given the relatively short length of the Orient Express and the fact that I have budgeted on getting around 12 coaches to go with a 241, I am thinking of getting some of the Pullmans, a 1st class couplet and a 2nd class couplet. I could then use the same 2 bagage cars at each end to recreate L'Oiseau Bleu or even a close approximation of the Fleche D'Or. As an aside, do you know when the Fougons were phased out? And were they never used on the Orient Express?
  14. I stumbled across https://www.wagons-lits-diffusion.com/ last night and found some rather interesting drawings that I thought sharing for any future reader coming across this post.
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