MarshLane

I seem to have taken delivery of all four volumes of the Messrs. Essery & Jenkinson Midland Locomotive books this morning, after a rather attractive (well to me anyway) deal on eBay. All four are superb and I am doubting they've actually been read! I have sat down and started having a read this evening, on P8 of Chapter One, Volume One, the authors refer to a 'new train control system' that was introduced around 1907. Can anyone tell me more about this, or where I can find out more about it? I seem to recall something in a Midland Record about the train control offices, but dont remember anything being written about a new control system? Rich

@kitpw @corneliuslundie Thanks for those thoughts guys I'll check them out. @Compound2632 I have tried web searches for wagon works etc, but not really found what I am looking for, hence the query. You've given me a thought about searching for specific places tho. Thanks for that Stephen. Sorry for the (part related) hijack! Rich

Can anyone point me towards where I may find any images (if they exist) of wagon works back in this 'pre-grouping' period, depicting build or repair of vehicles such as these, or just wagons outside the works? Rich

Also if an 88 was ordered now, it would use a 93 bodyshell, not the existing 88 design.

Hi everyone, sorry for the radio silence. It's been a busy few weeks. Thanks to everyone that as offered help and advice, much appreciated. I think I have got a few thoughts narrowed down to make something interesting and small. Hoping I can get back to people in the next few days and get things moving :)

Sorry I mean the engine sounds very different! Sorry. Yes it definitely moved under its own power from the video they have in the magazine. The mainline moves are late August.

According to the article in Railway Herald, two will be used by ROG, with the other eight from the first batch going on lease to other operators. But will need to be a modified version, as the standard Class 99s won't have ETS .. interesting thought. Sounds very different from the video in the magazine, apparently staying at Worksop until mid-August, then overnight WCML testing from late August.

Hi Simon, Interesting, so do I take it you have ends that fix somehow onto the normal mounting points for the adjacent boards, then put a lid and sides on to protect the boards - I am assuming given that you've said there are different lengths, that each board is one 'box' in essence? Fascinating way of working, and I presume it also keeps the layout dust free when in store. Cheers Rich

Well done Simon, you obviously scared Dapol into looking at the '87s'! Nice recent annoucement, and I am sure one or two will end up gracing Dallam! A question for you, if I may, how to you box and transport Dallam to an exhibition? I am assuming it's some kind of bespoke trolley/movable storage thing, to ensure the scenic areas and point motors dont get damaged? I have often wondered how its done.... Rich

Hi Stephen, Thanks for that background, it’s partially answered one question, that private owner wagons from collieries were rare in the central (ex S&D) region. Fascinating. Thank you Rich

I am currently playing around with ideas for a pre-grouping layout, loosely based around the Thornaby/Middlesbrough area - so North Eastern Railway around 1920/1921. I know the NER had pushed many collieries into using their own P7/P8 wooden hoppers by this time to improve tonnages carried etc. So a couple of questions arise - I dont currently have many NER area books (I am looking for and acquiring them where I can!) - so any help or pointers in the right direction on these would be welcomed. - Were coal workings entirely NER owned hopper wagons, or would private owner vehicles still have been seen (I am assuming things like the 1907 RCH designs)? If both, would they have been mixed within consists or, I suspect more likely, separate trains that originated out of the NER area? - Would the NER P7/P8 style hoppers have been used for industrial supply, as well as export? I am thinking the various iron works around Middlesborough/Newport etc.. - Presumably, given then number of local station coal drops, some of these NER hoppers would have made it into wagonload goods and pick-up freights for delivery/collection to local stations? - Does anyone know if any passenger or freight timetables from this early 1920s period around Darlington/Thornaby/Middlesbrough still survive, or carriage working books? I know the NERA has some carriage working books for main stations (York/Newcastle) etc, but I am not sure about this area. I used to be a member of the NER Association a while back, but didn't really feel that I got as much from it as I had hoped. Although that was probably my fault for not exploring the study centre (I am not local to the North East) and the latter part of my membership was during the Covid lockdowns. Thanks in advance, to anyone who can throw any light on the above (or related NER activities!) Rich

Anyone into narrow gauge railways, the F&WHR shop in Porthmadog are selling ‘Fairlie locomotives of North Wales’ book by David Payling - 326 pages Hardback for £17.95 - was £30. Mail order is an option I believe

Hi Ian, Thanks for taking the time to pass those comments, all valid and the majority of them I would agree with. I purposely didn't mention baseboards to be honest, for two reasons - the purpose of the original post was to see if it was possible to flush out a few items quite cheaply that people didn't want, the initial response suggests that yes it is. The second is that I have yet to decide on hot to deal with baseboards. Traditionally I have gone down the 2x1 frame work with a ply top, but the last few years I have let my membership of the flat earth society lapse, and am more swaying towards an open plan style. But I agree totally - good, well made, solid baseboards are critical to any layout. I already have some screw fix style trestle legs - Draper I think - so I'll use them for legs. This all started as a throw away comment between trains and seems to have gained legs very quickly. I am certainly not creating a 'roundy-roundy' train set. I do want this to be a model style, but equally my view was to approach it from a perspective that could prove to those without a railway background or previous model making skills, that it could be done without spending huge sums. Hence looking down the earlier locos. I have a few ideas on what could be done to improve running qualities, and without doubt somethings won't work, others hopefully will do. Again, totally agree. I have been given some, but I am somewhat inclined to buy some C&L chairs and strip the code 100 rail from the flexi-track I have been given and go down the self-build option. Copper clad is good and I have built that myself before, but I like the detail that proper chairs give. Again, agree with most of the comments. I find eBay is mainly going for silly prices these days, but the odd 'brucey bonus' can still be had. I need to get to my load Toy & Train Fair and raid the boxes! I am purposely staying away from Mk1 coaches. This is viewed as being a freelance/light railway so Mk1s wouldn't have featured, but also they add to the length quite quickly with two or three of them. Thanks for the tip on Scalescenes, not a company I have used before but I'll certainly take a look. One of the big aims is to show that with a small amount money, modelling, detailing, changing, repainting, upgrading things (ie what a model railways used to be about) can achieve a good outcome that isn't a 'twee trainsit' and a decent model that people can be proud of. I think one of the big challenges is that too many people who are new to bashing and scratch building are too afraid that they will get into a situation where its gone wrong and too much money has been lost. One of my purposes is to show that buying something for a couple of quid and almost wrecking it and bring it back to something decent (where it can be thrown away if the latter bit doesn't work) allows people to experiment and built confidence and skills - including myself! Above all else it should be a bit of a learning curve and fun! Rich

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Yes a dockside could well be an option, with tighter curves and pointwork. Tension locks will go as I (personally) tend to view them as more train set than model railway - no disrespect to anyone with a scale model that uses them! But for me they disrupt the realism aspect. Whether it becomes three links or a hands-off option I have yet to decide. Thanks I'll not name them, they know who they are, but thanks to the guys who have already offered a couple of items. Those bits, I'll say pledged as we haven't completed any purchases yet, so far include a Hornby loco body, two four-wheel coaches, five wagons and a Gaugemaster twin track cased controller! So things are starting to move. I have come up with a couple of ideas - we used to say 'back of a fag packet designs' but thats not particularly PC now .. so I'll say 'back of an envelope' designs, which may or may not have future at this stage, but it gives some ideas. Rich

Interested to hear from anyone who may have any of the following (or similar items) available .. in connection with a 'build it cheap' model railway project - see this rmWeb thread for more information! Hornby 0-4-0ST Steam Locos - Desmond/Smokey Joe/Caledonian etc... Triang 0-4-0ST Steam Locos - Nellie/Polly 0-4-0DM Diesel Locos - akin to BR Class 02 / industrial models Even just redundant loco bodies could be an option! Two-axle open wagons (3, 5, 7 plank style) Two-axle box wagons (can be any livery including fictional ones like Hornby or Birds Eye) Two-axle wagon underframes or metal wheels. Two-axle Hornby fictional coaches - same style as Annie/Clarabel, Midland style. Any livery accepted. Gaugemaster DC controller - preferably a walkabout but panel mounted is an option too. Condition is not important, working or not, missing wheels/buffers, scratched etc. does not matter. The whole aim of this little project is to see if a model railway could be put together cheaply in the current climate to create a layout that is interesting, made to a reasonable standard, and fun - but at minimum cost by modifying items that might be no longer required by people, past their best, broken or simply no longer required. Plenty of the above must have been bought for the kids and when interest was lost, simply thrown in boxes never to be looked again. The budget for this layout is small, but I am more than happy to cover costs, postages and reasonable price tags! Please do PM or comment on the above thread if there is anything of interest.

Before I explain what this is all about, I may need help from people, perhaps raiding not so much the gloat box, but the ‘why did I buy that’ box, or the ‘never going to run that again’ box, so please do read on .. I’ll keep it short! Introduction Recently, I was with a group of like-minded friends on a day-out to Penzance (of all places). We’re all over 40 and recall the likes of Crewe Works Open Day where you could pick-up no end of Lima and Hornby OO gauge locomotive second hand for £15-£25! On the rail journey down, we got talking and the topic drifted onto the cost of model railways today. Before anyone says, yes I acknowledge we have better motors, better detailing and DCC etc, but we were talking about the base cost of things. I recalled a layout that was in Railway Modeller several years ago where it had been done on the cheap - several small industrial locos, second hand track work and a handful of wagons - and it appeared to work well. Needless to say I got a barrage of responses all along the lines of “well you couldn't do that today!” Now I dont recall volunteering but it appears that I seem to have accepted a challenge to prove them wrong! Therefore the Low Cost Valley Railway was born (a working title!), which will be a fictional OO gauge light railway/industrial line, that has the aims of being made from throw away items, but giving a layout that is interesting to operate, portable and reliable .. and all at minimum cost. For no other reason than to prove what can be done with things we think are past their best, poor runners, or simply not working any more. Requirements Now I am still putting the basic concept together, but in essence I am looking for anyone to make contact who may have any of the following items they no longer need - or similar things, its wide open really, there is no wish list - who would be happy to donate (or sell for a small sum!). The aim is not to buy anything new, condition isn’t important as it can be resprayed, and even if a loco doesn’t work, I am sure that things can be adapted or re-motored etc. LOCOS This will be a small freelance industrial/light railway type layout, so I am thinking of four and six wheeled locos, probably older models to keep the cost down, things like the Hornby Desmond/Smokey Joe style engines, Triang Nellie or Polly as both offer some interesting rebuilding options, or things like the Hornby Class 02 diesel 0-4-0DM .. anything of that kind of small type. The more recent industrial locos would be nice, but they would come at a higher cost and that goes against the plan. ROLLING STOCK In terms of rolling stock, I am thinking of things such like the old Hornby four-wheeled coaches (produced in a variety of liveries and Annie/Clarabel guises) plus two-axle wagons probably more like the old 5-plank opens, or box vans/brake vans/cattle vans etc. Colours and conditions (even things like missing wheels/buffers) are not an issue if the cost is cheap! Again, may three, four or five coaches, with goods trains being six or seven wagons in total, including a brake van. The aim being that the stock list does not need to be significant - famous last words! The essence is those kind of items you might find in a rubbish box or under a stand not really having a value at a swap meet or model fair. A friend has given me an old Hornby ‘Birds Eye’ liveried box van to kick things off, which is ideal as it can be detailed and repainted, while another ‘friend of a friend’ has today given me three old, but still good and very usable, Code 100 points and a couple of metre-lengths of flexi track to get started. Now, ideally I would have gone for Peco Code 75 as I think it looks better, but hey, the purpose of is to make it work and keep it cheap! I have considered that it would be possible to create a new chassis for something like Desmond and put a modern day small motor (if necessary) in to create a reliable, smooth running shunter. I think the whole layout will be DC powered to keep the cost down - I’ve loads of electrical switches etc already so that side is sorted, so just need to find a walkabout controller, probably a Gaugemaster as they have always been reliable and compatible with most motors. Like I say, if anyone can help - the whole concept is to spend as little as possible, so there is no big budget, but I am more than happy to reimburse postage, and cough up small sums for things, I am not looking to fleece anyone or get people to give away valued models! But we all probably have some small items that were a purchase years ago and rarely, if ever, get used. I am going to sell a couple of models to create a small budget, so yes I am getting involved too! Please feel free to PM me, or respond on this thread either with details or a pic. Thanks to AndyY for his advice on where to post this starter for 10 diatribe! As things progress, I'll get Andy to move the thread into the Layout Topics ... once it is a layout. If you’ve read this far, well done and thank you! Thoughts, comments, advice and (polite) suggestions are welcomed! I am hoping it will turn out to be a fascinating little project, and one that can be documented on here as it goes over the coming months. One of the things I will do is to keep a financial tally of the outgoing. Can the overall aim of a cheap, but interesting and fun to run model railway be achieved? Lets see! Rich

Going back to our previous messages, the train was operated by Rail Operations Group on behalf of LNER - ie it was ROG Drivers.

Thought yours was a guitar and drum band Andy .. have you extended into Big Band material? In which case if your going down the Glen Miller route can I suggest Chattanooga Choo Choo? Rich

Hi Nick, Just to say thanks for posting your various bits and pieces on this thread, as one who is a member of the 2FS Society, but hasn't yet plucked up the courage to try soldering a brass wagon or loco (as much as I want to do) your work is inspirational. I have watched your Jubilee videos about 10 times now, and read this thread end-to-end at least three! I am determined this summer to have a go at something small. If I can achieve a 10th of the quality of you've reach I would be delighted! The essence of this is basically to say, thanks for the various pictures and the step-by-step, they really do help, and please carry on with it. Rich

I should have added.... In essence if STP paths appear in the railway computer systems they have been requested for an operational reason so *should* run. Where freights are concerned of course, changes in requirements, customer needs, inbound services, loco/staff availability can all affect things. But in this case, either LNER will have arranged for a specific driver who signs to Cleethorpes (assuming there are any, if somebody had transferred from say TPE) to be rostered, or they will have arranged an LNER driver who doesn't sign the route but signs the traction, to be accompanied by one or more drivers from another TOC/FOC. It is feasible of course that one or two LNER drivers (or driver managers) could have been route learning with TPE/EMR over the Doncaster-Cleethorpes and Grimsby-Lincoln routes in recent weeks. So a lot of variables in the picture. But the essence is that a lot of work will have been put in place before the path was requested, so in this case it should run. Whether it runs to time or not is another matter!

Should run from what I am being told, subject to drivers and unit being available. One of those, ... it works on paper, but until we get a train on the ground and prove everything its all theoretical ... situations!

I am hearing that behind the scenes, the contract is on the verge of being awarded ... and it's not going where one would expect it to go, given the current unified fleet. Still its all a game of pennies, dragons, Government and private sector isn't it 🫢 I gather the 26th June paths are timing runs to prove the sectional running times. Rich

Nice to see you back to bodging away! Rich

View Advert Various books for sale All are in superb condition. Postage at cost. Pictures available of any specific title on request. All are priced less than RRP, I just need to create some space and downsize. Anything not sold in a few weeks will be heading to a charity shop. Exploring Britains Disused Railways (Nth West England) by Mark Jones £14 Signals passed at Danger by Richard Faulkner and Christopher Austin £16 Railway Cranes Volume 2 by Peter Tatlow £24 London’s Underground - The Story of the Tube by Oliver Green £22 Oakwood Press 241 - The Saffron Walden Branch £10 Oakwood Press - Railway Walks 2 - Exploring Dumfries and Galloway lost rly heritage £7 HST The Train that saved Britain’s Railways by Andrew Royce £14 British Railways Unseen Colour 1948-1962 by Kevin Robertson £14 Robinson Eight-coupled Locomotives by Jeremy Clements £15 Railway Ancestors by David T. Hawkins £10 - heavy book so postage might be higher West Coast Main Lines 1957-1963 by John Palmer £20 Electrics for the Railway Modeller by Ian Morton £10 Scottish Railway Atlas - Then and Now - by Paul Smith and Paul Jordan £10 Worcester Locomotive Shed (Engines and Train Workings) by Steve Bartlett £15 Gloucester Locomotive Sheds (Horton Road & Barnwood) by Steve Bartlett £15 Edwardian Steam - A Locomotive Kaleidoscope by Philip Atkins £15 Ireland's Largest Industrial Railway - The Guiness System by Hugh Oram £5 The Leader Locomotive - Bulleid's Great Experiment by Kevin Robertson (Revised & Expanded Edition) £20 - Heavy Book Atlas of Railway Station Closures £15 Advertiser MarshLane Date 18/06/23 Price Category Books  

SSShhh you'll let Mrs P hear and then Andy could be in trouble!! Glad you're enjoying the music mate, but we do miss your bodgit inspirational ideas! I'll keep my eye open for cut price mojo .. its sure to be along in a 'one day Rails Of Sheffield' sale soon.....