thestourbridgelion

The ones I looked at went fast from Abergaveny to Hereford. Those stations are in the 1961 timetable but the trains I looked at didnt stop there.

Thats interesting I had forgotten the 124 sets were used on that service. Interesting that the gear ratios were less than ideal. Looking back through my timetables I note that in 1961 the Cross country units on Cardiff to Birmingham jobs were allowed between 31 to 35 minutes although one is timed at 29 minutes between Abergavenny and Hereford yet in the 1973 timetable the same units were allowed 29 minutes. I know line speeds have tended to go up over the years and tail loads pretty much disapeared plus less slow moving freight in 1973 but it seems odd that they assumed the units could shave up to 6 minutes off the schedule of 10 years earlier with the same unit.

Great story-a good walk between boxes in those days. I took quite a few photos of the 120s on the Cardiff Crewe workings and travelled the route quite a bit it in the 70s. A coffee in the buffet was a must as it was always excellent! Unfortunately I lost most of my photo collection in a house move but have these two photos both near Ludlow one with the bubble car attached (as a driver did it make much difference having one of these helping the power weight ration?) I worked in the Railway for 40+ years and in the late 70s was a fitter at Wolverhampton and occasionally got call outs to 120s. I also remember in the 60’s the 120s on the Cardiff to Birmingham service. So when I recently found a kit for building one in 0 gauge it was a must, I particularly want to get the interior correct as they were in my view extremely comfortable trains when everything was working.

Nice job Jamiel!I have just started an 0 gauge kit of a wonderful 120 and despite collecting information for a number of years and still there are questions like curtain colour as originally built. I have seen it suggested that first class curtains were a darker beige colour and I have see a colour photo which seems to suggest that may be true but its nit conclusive. I am pretty certain the GWR railcars, which were still running when the 120s were introduced, had fawn curtains so it seems likely this could have been peretuated on the new Swindon built units. Floor covering is difficult ine. I have never seen a reference to this anywhere. Incidentally most of the buffets seemed to be closed from the 1962 timetable on the WR units (the third batch with large headcode boxes had trailers without buffets) However, fir a while in the early 70s the buffets were resurrected in certain Cardiff based units for the Cardiff to Crewe service. The Inverness buffets remained operational until the end.

Just to let anyone following this thread know that Paul has resolved my issues. The decoder had a fault in it which meant it was cutting out and complicating the whole process. Paul arranged for Philip Sutton to replace decoder and Paul then loaded his more than excellent DMU project onto it. So now have fully working 117 with sound thanks to Paul. I must say this project really brings out the sophistication of the new 117. Just a pity it’s a 117 not a 116 or a 120! So thanks again for everyones comments and particularly Paul’s involvement.

Have PM’d you Paul.

Thanks Richard Croft....yes what you say makes a lot of sense. Once bitten twice shy. Next time will approach differently!

Argh, I give up!! Did all that and chip is completely dead. This happened when I did a 8 reset the other day but then it came back to life. Completely dead on 21 pin socket on tester or on vehicles. I am wondering if there is some sort of hairline crack in the decoder. The CV read off even though it’s dead. I have put it under a powerful magnifier but can’t see anything suggesting a physical defect. I don’t know if there is anyone who could test the decoder properly for me. Either that or it will have to be a new one. I think I will have one more go at a reset and setting it up again tomorrow.

CV’s after no8 reset. All taken with decoder inserted in 3 car unit coupled up.

OK, some matters arising.You keep saying factory reset. CV8 = 8 is not a factory reset, it's a reset to however Mr Soundguy programmed it in the project. He assigned F key 11 to cab lights, probably using a different mapping method. ok That should not make any difference since I gave you a list of CVs which would have removed previous asignments (all CVs from CV32 to 46 must=0). Of course, if you reset the decoder after inputting these, then they will have reverted to Mr Soundguy settings; you will need to re-input all the CVs I gave you, but see below before doing this. I re input the CV’s you gave me after the No8 reset.32 to 46 are def at 0 For now, ignore F key 11. Don't set CV442 to 11, that will cause more confusion.Do not use it as it may interfere with other tests ok I'm going to assume you've assigned F keys 22, 23, 24 and 25 to A,B,Cand D respectively. Tell me if you've done anything different. 22, 23,24, 25 are A,B,C, and D asked if you have connected other cars. You have not said. Some functions are directional. if you don't connect the other driving car, you will not be able to see if any of the LEDs in that car are working. So if youhave switched on the destination board illumination in the DMS, you will not see any light in the DMBS. You will only be testing half of the lights.The destination panels are directional and each has a separate FO (Aux). Similarly the marker and tail lights are directional. Sorry I had that down to answer but missed it in my reply. Yes I have tried it with all three cars-no lighting anywhere. I also meant to say that all the switches are “on” It would help if I knew how Mr Soundguy has assigned FOs. Will you please reset CV8 = 8 to eliminate any changes we have made by putting it back to the project defaults, then read the following CVs and post them here. I'll then know which to change. CV61, CVs 33 to 46 CVs 125 to 132 CVs 159 and 160 Plus any CVs between CV430 and 507 which have a value anything other than 0 I will do this tomorrow early afternoon and let you know when I have done it.

With the MX644Dplugged into the ESU tester, you should see motor turns, sound operates and Aux 1 and Aux 2 LEDs illuminated, BUT, I did not give the CVs for mapping AUX 1 and Aux 2, so I would be surprised if these were illuminated. Is That correct? They operate off F11 on the tester. Only just realised that they are directional. They are off F11 and change between Aux 1 and 2 when you change direction. I have not attempted to map anything to F11 that must already have been in there despite the factory reset. However, nothing lights on dmu when pressing F11. f so, only LEDs for AUX 3 and 4 are left as possibles. BUT, these are for Logic Level only. On mine, they do not illuminate unless Logic Level FO is connected 3 and 4 do not illuminate on the tester at all. f you have observed an AUX indicated as working, was this on the model? If so, which LED and at which end? You only show one car in your photo, have you connected the other driving car? If not, how have you tested the AUXs which power the LEDs in that car? (We know you can't rely on the ESU tester for this I get no lights on the car at all no matter what I press. Occasionally the headcode light flashes for a millisecond when I reverse direction but even this is random. You show F1 (sound on), and lights, switched on which you report are working correctly. sound and motor working correctly. No lights in car. You also have F11, and F21 to F25 switched on. What have you assiged to these F keys? Will you list the CVs you used to do this? I should have explained better....you gave settings for four “F” keys yesterday so I used 22, 23,24 and 25 all the other settings were as you gave them me in the 400 range. You said earlier that F11 was for cab lights, (these are not directional in this model), have you assigned this in the list of CVs I gave? (CV442 = 11) No. F11 does illuminate a led on the tester and is directional but I have not assigned anything to F11. It seems strange as I believe I have done a CV8 reset with a 8. I can't see any point in trying to fit a second decoder for the lighting. How would you actually do this? There's no guarantee that you would have any more success than now. The decoder you have is more than capable of operating all the lighting features of this model. We just have to eliminate the mismatched mapping, or decide that the decoder is broken. It was just a thought as a last resort. A bachman non sound decoder could be fitted in the Plux22 socket and the sound decoder could be wired to the motor, speakers and pick ups.. There is space to hard wire to the pick ups and large pads by the motor. Speakers may be more of a challenge and of course would have to disable the motor control on the decoder that’s being used just for the lighting. I really appreciate your help with these problems Paul so thanks again. Andy Cope.

I guess another thought in my head is fitting a second decoder just for the lights. Never done it before and it’s not ideal but a thought I had.

OK, photos attached after unsoldering then resoldering cables ( yes, think I need a bit more insulation looking at the close ups!) I use my LokProgramer for changing CVs and photo of Lokprogrammer with lights buttons pressed plus sound switched on and taking power. Taken with the same settings is the output on the decoder tester both through my hard wired lash up and with the 21 pin attached directly to the tester. The directional lights come on plus one auxiliary. The motor is also turning and the sound is working. I have not attached cables to GND or the GPIO A, B, or C or Capacitor + on the Plux header. ( The stray cable is for the stay alive capacitor and has been kept out of the way). Attaching the lash up to the vehicle produces movement and sound but no lights. Final photo is with analogue blanking plate inserted showing lights work on analogue so presumably vehicle wiring fine. This is the result I have been getting all the way through. ( I used “8” for the factory reset yesterday) Andy Cope

Will do. In the middle of re wiring so will post a photo once finished probably later tomorrow.

Latest update-Sound and movement have come back! Bit of a mystery that but was ok after leaving everything for an hour-not touched anything to make it work but it works! But still unable to get any lights after inputting Paul’s suggestion. So going to de wire the connections between the 21 pin decoder and Plux22 header and do them again in case I have a dry joint or error. Then try again.

That’s interesting but as far as I know it was not a factory fit.

Thanks again for your generous reply. Motor and sound were working ok but nothing else. I have now tried a factory reset and now nothing works! No sound, no motor, no lights. I made a note of the CVs from 1 to 6 before reset and they are the same as the ones still showing after factory reset. So I don’t know if I am missing something obvious. I am addressing the decoder correctly as 3. I have realised that I don’t know if this is a 644C or D which seems important because on the C some Aux’s are logic level. Prior to this latest development sound and movement was ok it was just lighting. Occasionally I would get a flash from the headcode led when I changed direction. Original chip was from Mr. Sound guy. I have a document which indicates basically what the function buttons do.(all sound functions except FO (marker lights) and F11( directional cab lights) There are also a list of what the volume CVs are for the various sound slots in the CV500 range. I have tried the chip on the model and on the ESU decoder tester. With the settings you suggested I tried it on the direct 21 pin connector on the tester and as you also suggest it didn’t show what I was expecting so I tried on model and still no lighting but at that point motor and sound ok. Factory reset then carried out, now nothing. I have tried the unit on analogue with blanking plate fitted and it works as expected so can’t see there is a fault on the unit. I am confident that I have wired the header correctly but am tempted to remove the wiring and start again just to be sure. Or at least that was my plan was but now the chip seems dead I am just climbing the walls and thinking of throwing the chip in the bin! Your comments really appreciated and I am learning! I can not get my head around logic levels yet but think that may be for another day! Andy Cope

Paul, really appreciated that you shared that information with me. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to work. I am wondering if I do a factory reset then try your settings? The current settings on the 644 are unknown so maybe there is something else causing an issue. Or maybe the decoder is defective. As I say it’s a 21 pin which I have wired to a Plux header but am pretty sure it’s wired correctly. Anyway, thanks again for sharing your information. Andy Cope

Definitely a Plux22

A friend has passed me a new Bachman 117 to fit to it a 21 pin Zimo 644 which was previously fitted to a Class 121. I hard wired a 21 pin adaptor plate to a Plux22 header which the 117 requires. Power and sound ok but no lights at at all ( cab, destination, interior or head code) First thought that I had wired it wrong so tried it on my decoder tester and it seemed to work ok. So I can only assume that the Function outputs may need remapping. I am familiar with ESU decoders and how to do this with my Lokprogramer but this is my first experience with Zimo. I have read the manual but am not clear. Could anyone give me a pointer on how to remap the functions? I am impressed how sophisticated the electrics are on the 117-things are definitely moving forward. I tried and failed to establish continuity between the lighting circuits and the decoder pin sockets but apart from the common positive couldn’t get any so tried the unit on analogue to check the lighting circuits and all worked ok.

Thanks for all the sensible answers.

“ Modelstrip” used to be really good for removing paint from plastic bodies but I understand it’s discontinued. Does anyone know of an alternative?

Many thanks for your comments and pointers

As a change from usual GW type kits which I have done in the past fancy building a Ivatt Class 2 in 7mm produced by DJH. Some of the older postings on this model suggest some difficulty with the cylinder width on this model. I wondered if anyone has any more recent experience with this kit and could comment on its accuracy. Which brings me to a second point I am trying to find out which members of the class were allocated to either Oxley or Stafford Road? Another question is how do I determine if they were painted lined black (as per Severn Valley example) or lined green as I believe some were? I imagine these two latter questions have a simple answer but I don’t know what it is! Many thanks, AC

Good call Nearholmer. I have heard of Filcress in Garden Railway use- will investigate further.