DavidBird

Neither should their immediate neighbours.

I remember seeing these on the Bradford drags with the 31s. They were hauled in both directions by the 31. Strangely, I don't remember 47 in use, but that's possibly because that was what was expected, while the use of 31s was unusual, so has stuck in my memory better. But why not just use the 43? Apparently the 91 only had enough battery power to raise the pantograph, so running it at the front, with the 43 propelling, would have flattened the battery and lost the control. So when the loco was used one way, it still had to be returned, so it saved a LE movement to use the same loco to haul the train both ways.

Like this? Ok, so the scenery needs a bit of work....

How about a road going across a level crossing AND under a bridge at the same time... https://flic.kr/p/5VE3HC https://flic.kr/p/5VzUXB

Would that be Ocean Grey or Military Grey? Or is it the other way round? Thanks for the tips about the gradients. I still need to do a gradient test to see just what a Quarry Hunslet with 3 tipper wagons will do. I've got a set of 6 V-tippers from Nigel Brooks, my 1st experience of 3D printing. https://brooks3dmodels.com/#HDVT1 I'm pretty sure that it will manage something quite steep, but I'd not considered if it would look too steep for the setting. A cardboard mock up is needed before cutting any polystyrene.

Yes, they do... and on at least one occassion they involved "The Jacobite" An early morning encounter with the "MV Boreal" and it's foghorn got me out of bed to see through the fog the ECS Jacobite private charter arrival and departure full of cruise passengers https://mallaig-harbour.com/harbour-news-june-2018/ I did even post a photo of the train, but it was lost in the forum crash...

There is an obvious candidate for that, with a local connection too... Does WCRC own the paths on the line? Could they prevent another operator from running trains in the paths? It was apparent from the publicly available data on RTT that they were activating trains on TRUST that they were prohibited from running, during the period that ScotRail were running an additional service.

Progress has, unfortunately been "glacial", if not "geological". The kitchen table work area has been unavailable due important things like eating, and its been far too cold for the attic. Yesterday i made another mistake. The baseboard box suffered both from soot from the lasercutting and slight staining to the surface of the ply. I was planning on varnishing the outside to preserve a nice timber effect, but a coat of varnish would have sealed in the stains. A bit of hand sanding didn't seem to have any effect so after Christmas I borrowed an electric belt sander. This initially didn't have any effect, so I used a bit more pressure. It was at this stage I realised I was actually removing the outer layer of good quality ply, and what i thought was slight surface staining was really dark blemishes on the second layer of lower quality ply. The finish is now worse than it was before, so painting it will be. Any suggestions on colours? Plain black, dark green, Madder Red or even Primrose Yellow?

It's not like that now. They close in November and don't open again until March. Still, the Pub does F&C carry-outs - and does them very well, too!

Strange how your memory plays tricks on you. From seeing that in the early 80s, I was sure it was a metal-bodied BR std 16t mineral wagon...

No, still the best fish and chips!

4mm/00/009

Thanks very much. I'm not too well up on pre-TOPS wagon designations, and I only just remember steel 16T wgons in real life...

Thanks very much for your info. So I'd be OK using sheeted loads on fitted 7-plank for a 1960s, with OAAs for slightly later, or PFA with half-height containers for late 80s/90s/early 21st C operations, all capable of being carried on transporter wagons. Alternatively I could use Vanwides (1960s) or VEAs (1970s/80s) and assume forklift loading and COV-AB/VAA type vans for traffic in later eras. It all sounds easy to do, thanks again.

Back in "the good old days" the railway carried absolutely everything, indeed it had to under common carrier legislation. Did the carriage of non-ferrous metal continue into 1960s and 70s and even later* and if so what sort of wagons would be used for the metal ingots? I'm intending to model a What If the Leek and Manifold narrow gauge railway had actually served a viable copper mining industry and shipped out copper metal ingots to industrial customers on standard gauge wagons on NG transporter wagons. Would normal 12T vans have been used? Or would it have been something with a bit more security? * The only one I know of was aluminium ingots from the Fort William Smelter to, amongst other places, Bridgenorth in Shropshire. Even this traffic is now carried by road, if only there was a rail connection to Bridgenorth....

I seem to have changed my mind more often than my underwear* between the oval and two cassettes on either side, but I think I've settled with this plan. I do really like the idea of the layout being self-contained, with a cassette removal from the back (top). In the top left corner will be a mine scene, possibly by a 3-D "decoupage" method of the scene in the header photo of the Peak District Mines Historical Society page here https://pdmhs.co.uk/magpie-mine-peak-district/ and with the Kernow N-gauge Graham Farish Scenecraft Derelict Engine House as a bit of forced perspective. The green line is the edge of the "plateau", the land will slope gently down from top left towards the green line, with a dry-stone wall around the edge. The purple/lilac line is the bottom of the valley side, between the two lines, the ground will slope about 45 degrees (or even steeper depending on what gradient I can get on the mine branch and how it actually looks). The ground will be more-or-less flat between the lilac line and the front of the layout and the the tan line in the bottom right corner which is the dried-up river bed. The trees on the right will have 2 or 3 "commercial" models of recognisable tree species at the front with home-made generic trees behind into the top right corner, to hide the tracks' disappearance. I hope to be able to preserve the essence of the L&MVLR with the limestone dale scenery with dried-up river, the minimal station facilities (with ostentatious sign - 7mm GWR-style possibly?) and of course the standard gauge siding in the bottom left. I have been promised a few kits of the transporter wagons, these are intended to be hauled while on the main line and only shunted on the straight from the goods loop to the siding. If the long rigid 4w wheelbase actually does preclude operation around the settrack curves, then the layout (or at least this iteration of it) will be definitely set in the preservation/tourist-only era, although there may be a 4-wheel PO wagon posed on the siding "for display purposes". I may need to tweak the overall width to ensure that stock overhang doesn't foul the sides of the box and the radius of the mine branch on the left to allow sufficient clearance between the back straight of the branch and the removable cassette. I have the Peco 009 Starter track pack, I am now confident enough in the plan to be purchasing the extra track required. More photos to follow when I've got something to show. * Not really 🫢

What's the diagonal wooden structure opposite the far set of points?

You, or I, or both of us might be telepathic. As you were typing that, I was thinking the same - a generously laid out through station with fiddlesticks on each side. But I was hoping to make it operable and self contained, which it wouldn't be if I needed the extensions. Besides, I quite like the mind-bending aspect of the left and right main line going to different locations, but the left and right mine branch being parts of the same line...

Indeed it will be. I've found this photo here staffspasttrack.org.uk which shows the civil engineering side, with the straight route with the fresh earthworks showing how substantial they are. No Spooner-ish clinging to the sides of mountains... In fact, I'm thinking of moving away from strictly L&MV to a more wider Derbyshire Dales setting, a bit like this here, with a steep bleak hillside leading up to a plateau-ish area Cales Dale and Lathkill Dale, picture from https://www.ramblers.org.uk/go-walking/group-walks/youlgreave-cales-dale-lathkill-dale Static, but yes I thought it would be interesting to have 3 gauges on the same layout. The squares are 1ft, with 9inch setrack. There is a small amount of wriggleroom with the radius if I use streamline to transition into the curves and the transporters would only ever be hauled apart from shunting over the straight route from the loop to the siding. I will still go ahead with using them, if they don't work, a single transporter will be confined to static display on the siding. But if I'm successful with the layout as a whole, a version 2, with at least 12" radius curves may be in order. As I said at the start, I'm looking for an excuse to run 009 locos and stock, that's different from a north Wales slate quarry line, and the connection with the Peak District meant the L&MV was an obvious choice. If I can include the unique features of the L&MV, such as the transporter wagons, so much the better.

AnyRail seems to have been more cooperative, so here is a first attempt at a track plan with (mostly) setrack. The "dotted" tracks are hidden under the hillside, the fully shaded straight at the back is a cassette type fiddle yard track, accessed through a hatch in the back of the plywood box. I have also included a bit of 18" gauge mine track.

I was going by Wikipaedia here, which says Express Dairies. Of course, it was before my time... But your points there are interesting, in that I can justify a more intensive service of the 3000 gallon milk tanks than actually happened. In this world of "what ifs" I'm quite happy to ignore that point, just as I'm happy to treat 1ft 11.5", 2ft3 and 2ft6 gauges all as 9mm... 😆

It is very sturdy! He doesn't currently have a website or other product listings anywhere that I can see. I emailed him on timhornlasercut@gmail.com and got a quote back very quickly. I get the impression it's a "made-to-order" service, but whether its a custom-made or just standard sizes I'm not sure.

The track plan will be a kidney-shaped oval, with a scenic section in front of a hollow hillside. To get the feel of the L&MVR, it will have a steep valley side, topping out into a more-or-less flat plateau, together with a dried-up river bed across one corner. Unfortunately I don't have the space to include the railway repeatedly crossing the river-bed. There will be a station - name yet to be decided - with an Up and Down main line with a minimal-height platform, a goods loop with a siding off the goods loop ending in a short length of standard gauge track. The station will have basic passenger facilities, I'm thinking of using the Scalescenes 009 Structure Set in timber finish. The main line will disappear into the hollow hillside at one end into a tunnel, of sufficient loading gauge to accommodate bogie coaches and a std gauge van on a transporter wagon; and at the other between trees to hide the hole in the hillside. The quarry line will branch off the main platform line and will spiral around and up within the main-line oval, running across the visible hillside, to a mine working above the tunnel. I need to research into what gradient the Bachmann Quarry Hunslet will tackle reliably with propelling a set of 3 Peco V-tipper wagons. I've tried doing this up in AnyRail, but without much sucess. A large sheet of paper, real points and flexitrack will be out tomorrow....

Thanks very much for your comments, Danny. There's much to consider there. I've made a start with a Tim Horn laser cut baseboard. I can thoroughly recommend them. All the pieces went together very well and I had a very strong baseboard very quickly. Which is where I've made my 1st mistake! I went for a single 2x3 board with backscene, thinking that this would be relatively easy to carry single-handed. But with the backscene boards, it turns out to be just about on the limits of what I can carry easily. In hindsight, I should have gone for a 3ft x 18" board, with a separate 6" extension behind it. But that's what I've got, so that's what I will use.

Thanks "009MM". I had actully considered most of these points! The standard gauge line to Waterhouses was closed to passengers in 1935, following the L&MVR closure the previous year, and to goods in 1943. But rail freight from Cauldon Lowe Quarry - cement for Blue Circle (now LafargeHolcim) continued to 1989. If the narrow gauge had continued to dipatch std gauge milk tanks and metal and receive coal, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that the short section from Caldon Jct to Waterhouses would have remained open, and possibly even for a basic tourist passenger service. I had wondered about a diesel loco for the remaining commercial freight services and I like the look of the 6-coupled jackshaft drive like the Rheidol No 10., although Peveril Castle may be more appropriate for a Peak District layout. Back in the real world, does anybody know what designs of NG diesels were in UK commercial service in the 1960/70s? As to the gauge question, OO9 is spot on for 2ft 3", for the Tallyllyn Railway. If us modellers are quite happy to accept OO9 as 3 inches less on the Ffestiniog or VoR, then why not also and at the same time use it for 3 inches more on the 2ft 6"? I will be quite happy to overlook the gauge differences... Actually the mine branch would probably have been a cable-worked incline from the mine workings on the hill down to the main line, but then I wouln't have the excuse to run "Britomart". I had briefly considered EM for the short standard gauge on the siding, but I've rejected that. Because 9mm gauge is narrower than a scale 2ft 6", the ratio of 4ft 8.5" to 2ft 6" is closer to 16.5/9 than it is to 18.2/9, so the use of 00 will look closer than EM when next to the 009. Plus I can still use the wagons on my other layout. On my model, I'm intending being rather flexible on the time period, transporter wagons still in use, and privatisation-era loco exchanges at the same time! Thanks very much for your interest, more updates to follow soon.