wagonman
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Posts posted by wagonman
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On the subject of WHD&S wagons, here's one caught at Weston-super-Mare. What's in front is far more interesting though...
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On 11/05/2023 at 21:32, asmay2002 said:
A big problem in relation to PO wagons is that some companies had batches of wagons in different colours, some grey, some red oxide, others black. You can't necessarily tell these apart easily in a black and white photo, there just isn't enough information. You have to know from documentation that e.g. wagons 200-351, 400-532, etc were grey and 101-197, 356-397, etc. were red oxide.
Worse still, they could change colour during one of their regular scheduled visits to the repair shops.
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21 hours ago, Aire Head said:
As a compromise it was proposed that we could use both until we realised that mean the child's middle names would be "Ronald McDonald".
Such consideration is laudable. I know of a Mr & Mrs Earp who named their second son Wyatt – he lives next door to me. And yes, we do have a Doc Holliday in the village as well.
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11 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:
I think not, Mr W, because Stephen was listing middle rather than surnames. However, the Whyte of Whyte's notation also had an unusual middle name - his full name was Frederick Methvan Whyte.
In such cases it's often a mother's maiden name being perpetuated.*
On Chas's earlier point about old names coming back into use, Charlotte and Alice – the names of my grandmothers – are also the names of several young ladies of my acquaintance.
* Rats. Beat me to it!
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20 hours ago, figworthy said:
Any of her works could go with a bang ?
Adrian
Might get wrecked instead. On no, that's Ethel Smyth.
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I/we am/are not trying to diss AI but to improve it. I would be delighted if it could be made to work with a reasonable degree of accuracy, but can't think how this could be done. I heard recently of a case of AI being used to distinguish between skin moles that were or were not cancerous. Unfortunately it "learned" that anything with a ruler in the photo was cancerous...
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The only thing I'd commit myself to is that the lettering is shaded. If the diamond on the door is indeed red then it's unlikely the rest of the body would be the same colour which points towards grey (or dare I say green? No, I daren't) as the most likely colour. Perhaps you could ask your AI robot to try that – and rusty black for the underpinnings.
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On 02/05/2023 at 08:48, Compound2632 said:
PO wagons fall into the following categories:
- those for which there is documentary evidence and a photograph including a record of livery (e.g. Gloucester officials);
- those for which there is documentary evidence and a photograph;
- those for which there is documentary evidence (e.g. railway company PO registers, builder's records);
- those for which there is only a photograph;
- those which are known to have existed but for which there is neither documentary evidence nor a photograph;
- and those which existed but have left no trace.
The last two categories seem to be the commonest. Class 5 can be deduced from the owner's membership of the RCH commuted charge schemes if after 1926. Sometimes a wagon will be mentioned in an accident report or a repairer's notebook – but I suppose that counts as documentary evidence.
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5 hours ago, richbrummitt said:
I use a handrail bending jig
As produced by our very own Mr Bedford if memory serves me right – it often doesn't these days!
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18 hours ago, Compound2632 said:
So, is that empty to, on hire to, or now owned by Somerset Collieries, Radstock?
Good question. On balance I would go for your second suggestion "on hire to". "Empty to" would have stipulated a specific colliery, and "sold to" didn't happen. It does rather put a spanner in the Loco Coal works, so to speak.
This discussion made me dig out my copy of Chris Handley's excellent book on the Maritime Activities of the S&DR. These activities – primarily the importation of rails from Newport – ended abruptly in 1933 when they sold their last two vessels, the SS Julia and the SS Radstock. Though they did carry occasional cargoes of coal under S&D auspices I doubt it was on behalf of the Loco Dept.
Further digging required.
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On 17/04/2023 at 16:57, Compound2632 said:
[Embedded link to SmugMug gallery.]
Again this is well after the goods stock was divided between the Midland and the South Western, as No. 69 had been renumbered from No. 44 in 1928 and was also to be withdrawn in 1930. The wagon number ends 71, so presumably No. 1171, these eighty wagons being numbered 1122-1201. But what does that plaque say?
Another of the Casserley photos from the late '20s...
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On 13/04/2023 at 14:07, Chris Turnbull said:
Good choice, Russ. I had forgotten about Norwich.
Here is Norwich on 22nd March 2022 showing platforms 4 and 5 in the centre clearly wired with 6 on the far right unwired.
Chris Turnbull
Platform 6 is/was only ever used for trains on the Sheringham, Yarmouth and Lowestoft lines, none of which were electrified, so there was no need to wire it up.
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17 hours ago, jamie92208 said:
I've also progressed with my research into J B Beadman. Aka Joseph Blockley Beadman born 1851 0He set up a wagon works at Keighley that closed in the 60's. Now have a photo of him. SadlyI.no photo of any of his wagons. If anyone can access transatlantic passenger lists I would be interested. I think that he went to the US in the 1870's and came back with the capitato set up the business.
Jamie
His older brother Edgar went to Australia in 1875 where he later got into a spot of bother... Joseph appears in every census return so if he made a trip to the US it was of less than 10 years duration.
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On 02/04/2023 at 12:23, Andy Hayter said:
Works for me too but slow to load the clip.
Clip? It's the whole ***** movie. All 90 minutes!
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While I'm being boring, I probably should point out that Times New Roman was designed in 1931. It was however derived from a much older face called Plantin which might be available on your computer too.
I have an urge to eat a Tunnock's wafer...
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Green Rizla+ is 17.5 gsm, the Orange is 20.
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1 hour ago, Edwardian said:
I'm also rather fond of the bon mot, "Think your government doesn't care about you? Then try not paying your taxes! and see what happens!"
If you're rich enough what happens is ... not a lot.
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2 hours ago, RapidoLinny said:
The choice to paint the verticals black but the diagonals body colour on the Skinner wagon was made based on several facts:
- Many Gloucester-built private owner wagons are recorded as having black vertical ironwork, while the diagonal washer plates were painted in body colour (for example the J. Jones wagon we are producing, of which there is a photograph of the prototype on our website. Possibly related to the Gloucester company's predilection for inside diagonal washer plates?
- The red stripe passes over only the diagonal ironwork, but not the verticals, and it seems to me that it would be rather strange to paint the diagonals but not the verticals with a red stripe if both were green.
- Assuming the corner plates to be black, they look to have a very similar brightness level to the woodwork of the adjacent sheet planks. As such, the best method available to tell whether the individual pieces of ironwork are black or body colour would appear to be whether the aforementioned red stripe covers them.
One of the great joys of trying to determine colours of liveries from black-and-white photographs! I suspect that until someone creates a working time machine, we may never know for certain.
Thanks,
LinnyYour reasoning is sound, Linny. The wagon looks good and Stanley is not around to contradict you!
Richard
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7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:
It seems to me that you are saying the livery was red with a green stripe, contradicting what you wrote in PO Wagons of Wiltshire:
It is evidently upon this authoritative statement that Rapido have based their livery.
Ouch. I seem to have changed my mind for some reason as the original text on the page proofs was in agreement with the point I have been making here! I wonder why I changed my mind?
Your point about the body ironwork being the same colour as the main part of the body is a good one – the tone is essentially identical, and clearly lighter than the black axle boxes etc. Also the part where the diagonals cross the lighter stripe is clearly body colour too – though not the verticals.
I think I'll shut up now ...
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13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:
This wagon is an instance where the suggestion of putting different numbers on either side falls down, since there was only one of it, as far as is known.
According to the Gloucester records there was indeed just the one wagon bought in June 1932, described as secondhand 12-ton new specification (ie pre-1923) wagon on 7 years deferred payments.
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A quick tutorial on the colour sensitivity of photographic emulsions:
The earliest emulsions were sensitive only to the blue end of the spectrum – which makes Clerk Maxwell's demonstration of colour photography in the 1860s nothing short of miraculous. By the end of the C19 they had managed to extend the sensitivity into the green part of the spectrum (around 500nm) which they called Orthochromatic. Such an emulsion would render red dark but green light as I suspect was the case with the Skinner fils wagon. Panchromatic films, sensitive to the full visible light spectrum, were introduced in about 1906 but had not completely displaced Ortho even in the 1950s. A panchromatic photo of that wagon would render the red and green in similar tones being equally sensitive to both colours.
Ortho continued in use for some commercial work as it could be developed under a red safelight, whereas Panchro demanded complete darkness – this could be useful in the days before accurate exposure meters!
Alles Klar?
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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:
Free orthochromatic spectacles with every purchase...
Joking aside, they wouldn't actually work. Assuming they were intended to render a scene in orthochromatic monochrome, looking at the model you would see bands that were light-dark-light whereas the Gloucester photo is dark-light-dark. QED!
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Another observation: the S Skinner, Melksham, wagon dates from 1932 when it was acquired secondhand from Gloucester. In its previous life it was probably used in south Wales as it has the two commode handles on the end door, a feature of wagons in that area. The official photo lacks an information board, but in my book I came to the conclusion the livery was an inversion of that used by James Skinner and depicted on the model. My reasoning was that in 1932 a lot of photographers were still using orthochromatic plates which would record red as a dark tone and green as a light one – the photo shows the middle two planks noticeably paler than the top and bottom ones, ergo the livery was red with a green band. I doubt there's anybody around who can remember the original, and unless there's some definitive notice buried deep in the Gloucester records, who cares?
Richard
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It's probably worth pointing out that the 1907 RCH specs weren't exactly new – more a consolidation of existing best practice so there would have been quite a few wagons built to near enough the 1907 standard from the early 1900s.
Apropos Renwick, Wilton & Co 521, it is a Gloucester built wagon, according to their records one of two 12-tonners supplied in January 1909 and paid for in cash. This is a puzzle because there is what looks suspiciously like a Gloucester owners' plate on the solebar!
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More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.
in Kitbuilding & Scratchbuilding
Posted · Edited by wagonman
I don't think so. The use of wooden packing to space out the extended side knee iron washer strips from the solebar was a 'feature' of early wagons built by the Radstock Wagon Co so I assume this is one of theirs built after the change of gauge in 1875. Converted from dead buffer to self-contained spring types sometime in the 1900s but I've not found its re-registration. I assume it is being used for stone traffic from Edward Free's quarry at Hallatrow, though quite what it is doing on the gas works sidings at Weston I don't know.
Richard