[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

Thanks ‘GWR57xx’, I appreciate the thought and effort which must have gone into that post.

 

I intend to use a much bigger central bearing like this one.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Aluminum-Turntable-Dining-Table/dp/B0CDT8DG6S/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=38LSB3H9M7VXG&keywords=last%2Bsusan%2Bswivel%2Bbase&qid=1707752141&sprefix=Last%2Bsusan%2Caps%2C249&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

 

It claims to take 200 KG, so even if I filled the turntable with nothing but Heljan 37s, I’d only use half its capacity!

 

Yes, you’re right about the 15 degrees and symmetrical nature of the turntable. The support underneath would just be in line with the turntable rather than right round. G&H do not recommend rollers. They suggest instead that the layers fit closely and are polished (beeswax?) for low friction movement. I’m slightly sceptical about this, but will probably follow their advice.

 

A physical stop at the end is definitely required. Not least because DCC sound fitted locos have lots of momentum. I’ll ask G&H to engineer one in.

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

I’ve now broken the back of the eastern station throat board. It’s difficult to know exactly what level of undergrowth I should be aiming at, as every photo I find is a bit different. I suspect there was less tree growth back in the ‘80s than there is now, but there was still some.

 

Although more recent, this gives an idea of what I am aiming at.

 

 

And although the gorse wasn’t in bloom here, this is more in era.

 

 

A few days ago, my board was just plain grass.

 

 

I’ve added a lot of weeds/ undergrowth and trees, plus a fence and some sheep. Not sure about the sheep, but they illustrate the point of the cattle creep.

 

 

 

I’ve also laid my first stretch of point rodding.
 

 

 

This is the Wills OO product, which everyone says is over scale for OO. So I thought I’d try it in O gauge. To my untrained eye it looks OK. But it was very fiddly, so before I do any more, I’d welcome other peoples thoughts on it.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[Peterborough North]

20 minutes ago, great northern said:

On goes Silver Link, just as graceful from this angle.

Gone 8.40pm on an August evening, so the light would be starting to go. Given the lack of light at this time of year, I've tried to turn that to my advantage with some of these shots.

 

This is the only sleeping car train we get to see, so I thought you might like another look at the two Thompson cars that Andy, The GreenHowards, very kindly made for me.

I tries a plain blue sky as an experiment. It needed a lot of desaturating to get it anything like respectable, and I just find it too bland, but your opinion would be welcome.

Thanks for the photo. It always gives me a buzz to see something I built running round PN.

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

15 hours ago, Ray H said:

I'd suggest something like 15mm/18mm thickness for the turntable with handles that fold down to prevent trains from running off the edge. Don't forget that you can only be at one end of the turntable as it turns so that could impact how much weight you can have at the other end.

I only have a basic sketch at the moment, with a full drawing promised in the next week. But from that it looks like he’s proposing a c.100mm deep framed ply baseboard for the turntable deck. I’m sure I could add some weight in the centre to move the centre of gravity if necessary.

 

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

7 does not seem unreasonable to me, particularly not for the Fort William end, where you might well want 6 or 7 different trains to choose from.

 

I have never built a layout with a turntable plate and it is a very long time since I operated a layout with one, but if your individual items of rolling stock are heavy - particularly a locomotive at one end of a train - then you probably want a reasonably heavy turning baseboard to make sure the centre of gravity remains within the turntable bearing ring.

 

If locomotives are particularly heavy, don't have all your trains facing the same way. Of course, in use, trains will naturally end up facing different ways, but it might be tempting at the start to have all the trains facing towards the scenic section.

 

I am sure Grainge and Hodder can give you better advice than I can, though.

I’ve never built or operated one either. I just think that they’re a very neat solution which avoids handling stock. I have seen 8’ turntables on O gauge exhibition layouts like Kensington Addison Road and they seem to work well.

 

I think that inevitably all the trains will point the same way at some point. They should all face the layout to start with. One then runs through the contents of the turntables with all the locos ending at the outside ends. Then the turntables are rotated and one starts again.

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

2 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

7 roads at each end appears overkill to me, you are unlikely to have 14 trains to run? I am not sure what a typical working day back in the 60's was but I doubt that it involved 14 trains. Fast forward to the 80's and it was a maximum of 5 trains per day including the steam service. Even adding in an engineering train plus a special and 8 roads, 4 at each end, would appear more than sufficent. Smaller baseboard equals less weight and, hopefully, lower cost?

 

You may well be right Rob. I probably am being greedy. I plan to run it as a through the ages sequence starting in the early ‘50s with a V4 and Thompsons

 

 

…moving through green diesels.

..and ending with 37/4s in the late ‘80s. I should really stop with RETB in Dec 1987 but I like triple grey livery so I may push it a bit.

 

I seem to have about 16 trains at the moment….but I keep buying more! Unlike your layout on the WHL proper, there aren’t really enough trains on the extension to maintain interest for a full day’s operation if I stick rigidly to one year.
 

The alternatives would be to concentrate on either 50/60s or 70/80s for any particular exhibition or to incorporate some form of cassette system into the turntable. One also has to leave a spare road on the turntable so that trains from one end have somewhere to go. So a 4 Road turntable would mean 7 trains in total.

 

Andy

 

 

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

Meanwhile I’ve been ‘weedifying’ another board.

 

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

9 hours ago, 03060 said:

I like the plan but (and I don't wish to sound negative here) the obvious concern to me would be the weight of turning up to 6 'O' gauge trains on each turntable. I once owned a Heljan Class 26 which was pretty heavy on it's own.

 

I'm quite sure that you are comfortable with the size of your 'O' gauge stock, so you will have a much better idea of the feasibility of this than me and I'd certainly go out of my way to see Glenfinnan at an exhibition so I hope that it works, Andy.

 

Regards,

Ian.

That’s the big issue Ian and I’m nervous about it, but the guy at Grainge and Hodder thinks it will be OK. Each Heljan diesel can weigh up to 3KG so I could have 21KG hanging off the end. The plan is to use a large lazy Susan (24” diameter) in the middle. And of course, the coaches aren’t light so will balance the weight a bit. If the engineers amongst you think that’s impractical, please shout now!

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

Changing the subject completely, I have been thinking about how the layout will operate when exhibited. In the garden it plugs into a circuit, but for exhibition use, I'll need a fiddle yard or two. I've been talking to Grainge and Hodder about their turntable baseboards. They have been very helpful and have drawn up bespoke design for a2400mm (8 foot) turntable with 7 tracks as shown below.

I would need two of these which would fit onto my layout as shown below.

 

I think this will work well. It gives a total layout size of 11.3m x 5m, but this could be a corner plot of 11.3m X 3M and 5m x 3m.

 

I'd be grateful for any thoughts on the practicality of this and any other ideas.

 

Andy

 

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

12 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

This is bugging me, I am pretty sure the loco is 37081 and it might just be the shunt necessary to release an observation salon. If I could find the dam video I could answer the question! I have been through my Youtube history for the last 4 years and cannot find what I am looking for, it must be on a DVD somewhere. One of the videos I spotted originally found by @03060 is linked below showing a chunk of Glenfinnan footage in addition to the Mallaig arrival.

Thanks Rob,

 

A great video which I don’t think I’ve seen before. It’s useful confirmation that the Glenfinnan platform seats were painted the darker of the two green colours. And the waiting shelter had been touched up in a particularly bilious version of the lighter green which looks distinctly yellow.

 

I also noted how yellow the gorse looked. That makes me comfortable with my rather bright wax crayon shavings to represent the gorse on my layout.

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

11 hours ago, mallaig1983 said:

Rob you are thinking of the shunt to rearrange the obs saloon at Mallaig if it’s 39081 you’re looking for. It’s on this dvd. 
 

Andy

 

 

Mmm, I might have to add that to the shopping list!

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

13 hours ago, 03060 said:

Just to bring this slight thread deviation back onto a Glenfinnan relevance I thought it might be useful to show the two ends of the stationary double headed 9 coach 1985 at rest at Glenfinnan station from ee20213's Flickr album. I hope that you don't mind Andy.

 

 

 

 

I've also seen a collection of photos from around 1990 showing the run around of a 9 coach Landcruiser train which concurs with the previous description of the Mallaig manoeuvre described earlier. Sorry for this deviation Andy.

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

Useful shots. Thanks for sharing. I’m just tackling the vegetation and fence shown in the third shot, so very timely.

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

16 hours ago, young37215 said:

I also did the 2016 Pathfinder tour which was load 11 top and tailed between Fort William and Mallaig. My picture taking was limited and I dont recall any shunt at Mallaig because my wife and I spent most of the time walking around Mallaig trying to walk off the large quantities of food that had been served on the train over the weekend. I cannot find any pictures of the return leg, my best guess is the train returned in top and tail mode.

 

@Mallaig1983 description of how long trains were run around at Mallaig is consistent with what I have seen, somewhere there is a video clip showing this in action but I am dammed if I can find it at this early hour of the morning.  

 

 

You were obviously in the posh seats! I was in the bashers coach on the end. I’ve now had a photo through from my friend with confirmation that it was top and tail in both directions. The train was well off the platform at Mallaig.

 

It couldn’t wait in the station as a sprinter was due and our train blocked the whole station, so it went out to Arisaig where the sprinter passed westbound and returned eastbound. The stock then went back into Mallaig for the return journey. So no elaborate shunting at Mallaig on this train.

 

Andy

 

[Peterborough North]

3 hours ago, great northern said:

 

 

It really is such a lovely sight. The British 4.4.0 in general, not just LNER types, must surely be the finest flowering of our loco design?

I’m afraid I’m in agreement with NHN, the V2 is perfect is every respect. D16s are quite cute and 4-4-0s in general are more interesting than 4-6-0s, but they look a bit ‘fuddy duddy’ to me. The V2 looks well proportioned, purposeful and graceful. The best locos….. until Deltic came along!

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

2 hours ago, 4firstimes said:

The maximum number of coaches which Mallaig Platform could handle was six mark one coaches . On the internet there was a pod cast of showing how a train with nine coaches , was split ran around and re joined .  I believe a ‘Pathfinder’ rail tour in 2016 the consist was 10 or 11 coaches , being top and tailed. The train was split and shunted in portions using the siding to facilitate the locomotive at the headshunt North End to run round..

An example is as follows , this is not the one I was referencing too; ‘Chasing the Royal Scotsman to Mallaig 20 April 2019’ If I can find the links again I edit this posting

I was on the Pathfinder tour in April 2016 with 37610 and 409. Unfortunately I didn’t do the stretch outward from Fort William to Mallaig as I decided that wasn’t a good use of a day. Instead I got the morning sprinter to Glenfinnan and climbed the two Munros behind the Glenfinnan viaduct. I then caught the evening sprinter to Arisaig where the tour and my friends were waiting to run back to Mallaig, and then Mallaig to Fort William. The tour had to vacate the platform at Mallaig for a service train. By that stage the tour was in top and tail formation. 37619 led back into Mallaig and then 409 took the whole formation back to Fort William.

 

Here’s a photo of the train at Arisaig waiting to go back to Mallaig.

 

 

I’ll see if my friends have any pictures of the run round at Mallaig.

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

I presume that with longer trains the front loco came off shortly before arrival at Mallaig. And was then used for shunt releasing the other loco. That’s just a guess based on what happens elsewhere, so if anyone knows for sure I’d be interested.

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

14 hours ago, 03060 said:

Hello Andy,

 

I'm sure that you've already come to this conclusion but just in case there is any doubt remaining about the colour of the headboard in 1985 ...

 

.... photo by ee20213's Dad, from his SLOA Tour Flickr album, june 2nd 1985, which is well worth a look through.

 

 

Thanks Ian,

 

It’s clear that ‘blue is the colour’! But I haven’t seen that circular design before. I was intending to go for the more conventional design in John’s post earlier.

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

19 hours ago, 4firstimes said:

Through this forum an observation has been made concerning how far forward a train has stopped in front of a home signal at Glenfinnan. The natural reason for this would be to clear the track circuiting and if another train was present on platform 2 this could depart following the exchange of token , either physically with the signaller prior to RETB or electronically via RETB . The infrastructure at Glenfinnan should be considered. The platform lengths at Glenfinnan is recorded as 75meters which up equates to approximately 250 feet. The actual loop is 139 meters or 455feet. When steam service operates on the Mallaig Extension the consist is made up of a locomotive plus tender and up to seven mark one coaches. The knowledgeable modellers can work out the total train length , hence the need to stand forward of the Home signal to accommodate the loop. 
When the West Highland Line was commissioned to accept RETB in March 1988.

ScotRail issued a special notice for the Permanent Way and Signalling Arrangements for the Working of the West Highland Line including changes to sectional appendix alterations, Sectional Appendix section 1 table A pages 100 provides interesting information on loop clearance lengths (CL) and additional information on the south section of the West Highland Line on how the route was operated. 
A copy to the link is provided below.

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/pullfree.asp?FilePath=ArchiveSignals\Downloads\brscot&FileName=1988-westhighland.pdf

 

it must be remembered in the days of steam the West Highland perpetuated the North  British Railway practice of coupling the pilot locomotive inside the lead locomotive which opens up an interesting operational aspect when the pilot locomotive was removed from the train at Glenfinnan 

Hi Stuart,

 

That fits with my understanding. I think two six coach trains can pass at Glenfinnan, but anything longer won’t fit in the loop. I also understood that the run round at Mallaig would only take six, but I can’t remember where I read that. The Jacobite now runs to seven coaches so presumably the run round has been lengthened.

 

Would pilot engines have come off at Glenfinnan?  I’d have thought that they would work through from Mallaig to Fort William. It would be an interesting thing to include on the layout sequence if it did happen.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

22 hours ago, 4firstimes said:

The question of Headboad colours and coaches used on the Mallaig Extension when steam was re-introduced has been covered previously within this forum. With researching the Mallaig Extension since 1990 approximately I can provide the following information. The first public steam excursion on the Mallaig Extension was 28 May 1984 with Black Five locomotive 5407 , blue grey coaches and fleet of five  coaches TSO and BSO where assigned to this roster. However 5407 who had the honour of inaugurating the steam service powered a press preview on 24 May 1984 . The headboard if carried was blue with white lettering “West Highlander”. Black Five 44767 George Stephenson was also assigned to this service together with Maude 683 as the steam service ran Weds, Thurs, and Sundays. Maude’s exploits have been recoded which resulted in the in the Friday service “Glenfinnan Flyer” between 13 July to 3 August. This has been recorded with the headboard of blue background and white lettering “West Highlander”. The next season 1985 saw a dedicated set of mark one coaches in white/cream and LNER green coaches . The colour being reminiscent of the ex LNER tourist Stock. These mark one coaches introduced in 1985 BSO: 9312, TSO:4050,4243,4494,4610,4623,4643 “ West Highland” legend with Scottie Dogs and ScotRail. Black Fives numbers 44767,5407 rostered for the season. The season 1987 saw a second set of dedicated Mark one coaches introduced BCK:IC21241C TSO: IC3766C,IC44135c,IC4900C, IC4911c, IC4912C  “West Highland Line” at the end of the 1987 season the original Mk One set was withdrawn . In 1987 LNER K1 was assigned to the seasons trips 2005 and with a blue background and white Lettered headboard “The Flying Kipper”. Interested modellers will need to consult British Railways Mark one Coaches , by Keith Parkin to indentify the Diagram numbers of the coach builds and also the livery variations of the the dedicated sets. The original set had dark grey rooks including the gutters , reading down the coach sides green, black lining, cream, black lining, LNER green with  solebar black  The set was  lettered “West Highland ‘and ‘ScotRail’ . Scottie on centre doors  all lettering in white. Ends LNER Green. The later set , reading down the coach sides- Grey roof , Green including Gutters , Black lining , Cream, Black , Red lining ,LNER Green , solebar black Lettered ‘West Highland Line in white , coach number using prefix IC , Ends Black .

Like this you mean?

 

 

 

In case the resolution is too poor to let you see, the coach numbers are in line with your list:

 

4643

4243

9312 (the transfer seems to have fallen off the side you can see - another one for the to do list!)

4050

I have a fifth TSO, but that won’t fit on the viaduct which is the only part of my railway which ‘over-winters’. From your description of the livery, I should probably darken the rooves. They are due some weathering anyway.

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

On 24/02/2024 at 12:48, mallaig1983 said:

Hi Andy,

Its rather timely that I’m having an RMweb catch up here as I’m trying to replicate Glenfinnan paint scheme for this same era. I was heartened when Rainbow Railway’s released a range of paints appropriate for the Peco West Highland kits and placed an order for the two greens. I have done some test sampling and I’m far from convinced they have got the shades right. To my eye they are both to dark. I was going to try and mix some yellow in with the lighter green to get that lime green shade but thanks to the tip off from @4firstimes above I will be trying the Tamiya ones. Much appreciated thanks.

 

Your area of unkempt garden on the slopes below the platform are looking very effective. I like.

 

Andy

To be honest Andy, when I posted that question, I was hoping that you or Rob would leap straight in with, ‘this is what I used’!  I hadn’t heard of the Rainbow Railways colours but thanks for steering me away from them.

 

I’m glad it’s been a a useful debate for more than just me. Thanks again Stuart for your input.

 

Andy

 

 

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

23 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I can't remember why the loco drew up so far - possibly to take water? The train was only six coaches.

 

Re the headboard, the 1984 season was one of the first, so things might have changed over the next few years.

Six coaches would take it past the platform starter, but not as far as blocking the loop the other way. Two six coach trains can pass at Glenfinnan…just.

 

I'm modelling 1985 for my West Highlander - the first year of the green and cream Mk1s. It looked red in the black and white photos, but I’ve now found colour ones on Google which suggest blue would be correct for 1985. Should have done my homework more diligently. Thanks!

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

56 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

The bad news is it turns out it was this one :)

Pleased to be of ‘service’!

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Andy, here are three shots I took at Glenfinnan (1) and Arisaig (2) on a somewhat dreich day in August 1984. Kodachrome 64 (or possibly 25) slides, so quite a slow shutter speed (probably 1/60 at f/8). They may or may not help...

 

 

Thanks, The darker green there looks quite washed out.

 

Two other interesting points I noted were how far forward the Black 5 stopped at Glenfinnan. Well past the home signal.
 

And the colour of the West Highlander headboard, which has a blue background. I was about to order one from Narrow Planet with a red background. Now I need to do some more research!

 

Andy

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

Thanks Stuart,

 

That’s a very useful summary. The Tamiya yellow green looks spot on, but I’m not convinced by the Tamiya park green. It doesn’t look ‘blue’ enough. But that maybe the effect of weathering. 

As for the station seats being black, that may have been the case for the NBR, but they look green to me in the 1980s photos.

 

Any more views?

 

Andy

 

 

[Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge]

I’m loosely working on a late spring (May-ish) timeframe with Rhododendron and goose in bloom. I suspect that’s too early for the crocosmia, but so be it! Anyway on that basis I think I can get away with raspberry and brambles looking very similar. I may add some tiny white flowers for the blossom.

 

Andy