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Ive been close to HKG now for 3 decades. its in a cycle right now that isnt too different to the Uk, a high inflation malaise siphoning off dwindling recent past gains. back in the 90’s it was largely depressed as people and business exited to the doom of 1997, whilst the UK govt spent millions dressing it up for the Chinese. By the 2000s it was coming back, the shabby British backstreets behind the Peninsula were becoming trendy designer shops, the fake watches of Middle road were becoming genuine as Chinese and American billions was invested in making it an Asia Manufacturing, Tech and Financial hub. Through the 2010’s Hong Kong has prospered as a safe place to trade, do business, vacation (Macau is Vegas in Asia now, Disneyland etc). But roll on Covid & Politics… The Chinese crackdown shattered the dream, Covid shattered the tourism. The Americans wobbled, the post 1997 generation are leaving town. Its depressed, business is still good, lifestyle is better than the UK, taxes are lower but its not what it was. Similarly over the border the Chinese property boom, driven by 20 years wealth creation has spectacularly exploded, and continues to eat itself. Whilst at the moment its confined and the amazing wealth creation that China has seen masks a property crash that would destroy a European market, people are no longer so sure… For the first time in a generation the belief in perpetual growth in lifestyle and wealth is less certain. People dont know whats coming next, thats not an environment to invest in hence the feet hovering over the brakes which is very different to the pedal to the metal growth thats been the last 20 years. The only thing hiding it is the sheer volume of trade that exceeds ours, but the cream has gone off the top, will the glass empty, stay put or refill.

And moving footplate crew…

but how do you sustain selling last years fashion accessories ? they cleared c10%-15% of it in year 1…. fashion accessories only get more out of date the further from release they were. no one is consuming LNER mk3’s… once bought they are for a lifetime, and its now 2 full years since EMR gave them up. without spending money on more power cars, and with risk of a competitor emerging on something which is a fading memory I dont see that as being easy… theres over 400 rtr rolling stock sku items available now from Hornby… only 100 of them are wagons. Theres a lot more stories like that in the range.. R3171 dates back almost a decade now.

Welcome to the forum, what an interesting first post. how do you offload £9mn of stock (at Trade price, not rrp) without a fire sale ?

We’ll never know, because 20 pages or so back, everyone spoke up. When I asked, I was told its easier to fit them at the factory, and let modellers remove them, than not fit them and see the delicate light tracks get broken by less experienced modellers… some who may not want to bother fitting the lamp irons. They did also say they wanted to glue the default ones in, as the factory was worried they would come loose in transit. I saw logic in it, but I agree Royal Train was never going to fly, and I didnt agree with gluing it in.. but the Sams Trains ones do look securely fitted… Dont forget this is version 3…. Version 1 was the W1 with non working lamps fitted, no one complained, Version 2 was 6202 with working lamps… there was some grumblings (especially the red lights).., now version 3 these are configurable… I’m sure competitors are watching this, and now the genie is out of the bottle it will only get better… its not only model railways experimenting.. This isnt the only one with red leds, it has under frame “ditch” lights too. :-) I suspect whats polarising here is that its not yet perfected, but its on a premium priced model, that is very popular and has just had a big upgrade on its predecessor. The diesel side has a similar conundrum with diesel smoke thats basically a steam locomotive drain cock release coming out of the roof.

How many models of diesels have drivers cab lights turned on when running forwards? now in the real world, how often do you see a driver with his cab lights on at night when moving ? Its becoming normalised for steam locos to have firebox door glows always on… yet how often was a loco running with the firebox doors always open ? Sometimes what modellers like, doesnt always map to reality. Its also worth considering how the factory translates it…. Afterall working headlamps on steam locomotive models has been the norm in HO for nigh on 50 years… its 00 thats only just now catching up… Thats why EPs exist.. to see what works and what doesnt. if this was a railroad model, I bet the kids would love it to bits with working lights. We have a model where you can fit working lights to suit. I agree its not perfect, but its taken 50 years for Britain to reach HO standards… next is to improve it.. I personally would like the return of openable smokebox doors, with realistic innards, and synchronised wheelslip to wheelslip sound… Hornby is getting closer to that too on the P2. One thing is for sure.. a history page has turned and the tech should only get better herein.

its a good job Americanisation of english doesnt lead to Americanisation of models…. Its definitely Great Western… it says so. It even runs close to Lancaster…. ok i admit it was a bit of a Hail Mary on that one… back to the Dug out and await the fireside chat, to course correct and get back to the Landing zone for those warm and fuzzies. Still its better than East end… “Bung em a monkey”.. whats that all about. Ok no more Fud, I surrender.

Oh they definitely do. they just dont openly recognise it. As an example It was recognised at EP stage that having royal train configuration of headlamps on the Black 5 wouldnt fly. I think theyve listened a lot on the Black 5, but equally it depends where the model is in the production cycle as to how much they can modify. Visiting the exhibitions the Hornby team are very open to feedback and sharing what theyve changed and what they are planning. Heljan, Bachmann etc are all very approachable and personable at the shows… their passions are clear, but they arent always at liberty to speak freely online. I do urge visiting them, talking to them at shows etc you learn much more and do listen to feedback. I try to write my opinions and suggestions here knowing at shows they wont remember it all and it is nice to see they do improve models from collective opinions like forums to improve models, which is why I always suggest putting in constructive criticism here at EP stage… they might not act on it. but they see it… when they see a consensus / large feedback it adds weight to acting on it. At days end, no one wants a bad model, especially not someone spending two-five years of their life designing it. Thats why i’m waiting on 45157, those EP wheels are very black, cast and nothing like their predecessors, which I think is something they took feedback from on here too.

https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/category/5-branchline-split-chassis/lord-nelson The power train is all there… I believe the last ones took a very long time to sell out, it hung a while, which was an omen. One thing you cant say is Bachmann dont support their customer, they are one of the best. Agreed. The GWR saint is also a good potential, and was only just newly built in close proximity, and is one thats never been done before… it may have a longer term fit given its peak popularity, and next ten years travelling the Uk… especially as they had the chassis and tender already. its just one example, the LN wasn't desparate to be done, indeed the only one left had already stopped running and who knows when it will move again… You cant ignore preserved steam inspires model railway spend… the LSWR T3 is a matter of time before it emerges in 00. Indeed they could have slapped an original Scot on the rebuilt chassis and runaway with that for a fraction of the cost if the decision was about eliminating Bachmann choices. imo the LN wasn't a best choice, i’m not convinced redoing the Princess, Coronation was either. And next time they propose to run them at £50/60 whatever, everyone will default to.. “but last time they were £17” and still around. it taints its image… plus people will suck up the CKs.. thus risking a repeat… or if they dont match… bargains. they created a no win situation

Thanks never thought of that… so if they made more comps… the problem would be paint matching the new run to the existing ones on retailer shelves. and as its on the retailers shelves and not their own, I guess it makes it not their problem.

It might be ancient, its as old as the Hornby mk2D… didnt stop Bachmann making it until 2008. Thing is theres oodles around, cheap as chips. Just because it can be made, doesnt make it a sound choice… they all ended up in bargain bins not long after Hornby brought them out… the Bulleid shorts brought with them still are… £17.99.. and 6 different numbers to pick from.. https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/61992/R4884B-WSL-Hornby-SR-Bulleid-59ft-Corridor-Brake-3rd-Coach-2861 odd considering Southerns prolific use of Brakes, you’d think these would be gone first. bottom line it didnt win the popularity contest… unlike say the original Bulleid MN, which has done very well. I could have mentioned the 9f in that lot, the Bachmann one is very good, but arguably the Hornby one had really had its day so it was more of an opex than a capex replacement, even if it was entirely new… 9f has always been a Hornby staple.. fortunately they did a fantastic job, and its one that has longevity to it, than say the W1 imo which is really freak niche once in a decade.

My gut feel is a new 08, HST, 153 and 155 are coming. As for the 67 being basic, I think the real thing is too… its a fairly blunt instrument, not a lot of features to it. I can’t see a new one coming, its over cooked and uninteresting. The 91 was a disappointment… set modellers back a decade or two before we see a good one. The 755 is a rabbit hole too, sadly Hornby only seems to do one post BR unit every decade. in short Hornbys pushed out of modern image imo, but its not as if they didnt had their chances they were too busy duplicating Terriers, 4-4-2Ts, class 71’s, LN’s, 61xxs and one hit wonders like W1, Turbomotive and doing duplicate P2’s etc.. which has to be a strategy decision not coincidence. I would hope these are fully amortised as I dont see an exciting future for them.

Show me the bargains, theres a whole thread for it. i’m always up for a bargain, but a stock x% discount is nothing more than a dfs sale bargain. Theres not much of anything out there being cleared, just standard retail discounts with the usual discount flag next to it. maybe confusing a sale, with a discount.

They updated the motor bogie to match the upgraded motor, so they added nem at the same time. The rest of it looks unchanged since Lima. its not hard to cut off the big loops and replace with say a Roco 40344 NEM bracket/pocket and spring assembly mounted under the body. https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Accessories/Accessories/Roco-40344/gb/modell_22608.html

Highland clearance… 37409 and the mk3 dbso set is going home. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U11109/2024-04-23/detailed You have to wonder what the point of it going in the first place was really all about. Doesnt get back to Crewe until 10pm, so a chance for Northern enthusiasts to get their cameras out.

I remember unfitted freights in the 1980’s, but not with green diesels, all blue then. I used to be surprised at oddities such as freights with multiple brake vans at the rear, sometimes 6 or more, though the guard was only in one of them… though my memory is 25 and 40’s on such work, and one occasion a 56… but I guess nothing stopped a 47.

Often you see in the 60’s era videos, the driver opens and closes the firebox door in sync with the fireman's rhythm for shovelling coal in, thus keeping the heat from the fire in, and the airflow restricted to a minimum whilst moving. Never saw a film of them getting out of sync and coal landing on the footplate floor but i’m sure it must have happened.

The debt pile increase maybe coming at much higher interest rates than they have been paying before. It almost feels like a credit card holder getting into too much debt… 25% of the annual revenue. That despite being told the debt pile last year was due to too much over stocking last year and would reduce this… (Page 3 2023 annual report) and only finding Every £1 of stock reduction has increased debt by c£3, i’d be expecting stock reductions to be improving the financial health unless theres some very big investments going on… but if it is, its a secret, and brave in this climate. I think we are to be prepared for a bad end of year report, even if its inline with their expectations. And the bright side… someone highlighted Airfix in a new US retailer which is a positive. New territories ? Theyve major Western markets covered (i think too much covered for the business they are doing in some regions), so I watch with interest. new product ranges ?… weve waited a year for the “capsule range” which hasnt yet broken cover, the 2024 announcements havent hit wide acclaim either… there has been suggestions of more spread out… I do wonder how much the debt is going to dictate the decisons moving forwards…. the caution I do have is statements like this… build up of expectations that bad news in the final quarter will lead to expectations of rebounds next quarter…. 1 month in, end of the traditional modelling season and start of vacation season, two bank holidays in May, half term holidays etc…. So far weve only got a Black 5 to show for the jam expected this quarter…

My fear is Hornby is becoming more like Lima by the day. out dated, over priced, out competed. Simons comment is a symbolic rock and hard place. Personally I think reinventing the business maybe in order… is it time to stop manufacturing some lines and focus on marketing and retailing using franchise and co-selling with partners, leveraging the brand name and market place ?

45407 is possibly going to join 45212 on thursday. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U11065/2024-04-25/detailed looks like a second rake. Meanwhile 44871 looks to be staying in the south, whilst 34067 does Northern belle. 4 train operation with 4 locos…, no spare locos, what could possibly go wrong ?

If it were my child, they would be standing behind the yellow line like me… obeying the army of staff who tell bystanders, often quite forcefully, to be rightly standing behind that yellow line.

I cant imagine them, and their lawyers not watching every move. whats more theres a volunteeer army just waiting to tell tale on every move my wcrc too. I reckon its not are they aware, but how much info can they handle, pretty soon i’m expecting a dedicated snitch hotline for wcrc related incidents to be set up. “Hello welcome to the ORR hotline, if your call is in relation to wcrc, press 9, if its a major emergency not involving wcrc please hold for other options….”

oh, hello.. am I in the crosshairs? i’m not sticking up for them, i’m not going to defend them against safety, but that doesnt mean to say I have to agree with everyone on here… i’m trying to taking a balanced view against a mob that is quite definitely against them, and trying to see why they are doing what they are doing. As its 1 voice against an army, (I used to live near Millwall so you get used to it), its not surprising ive got more posts, but admittedly ive wandered OT for probably 50% of those posts. I have learned quite a lot from some contributors in this thread, and certainly respect some viewpoints, even if I might spar with them. Ive not been on a wcrc train in a decade, so I hardly care, though as this season maybe the final season the common man can get a decent priced ticket, I may give it one last hurrah. But the way I see it is mainline steam has been waning since 2012, before Wootton Bassett and were simply seeing those closer to the fire squirm as it gets hot, and its only time until the meteor hits carnforth. I felt this on Pathfinders tour with the western last week too, they were quite paranoid about social media seeing something, and theyve nothing to do with wcrc. oh look is that an unlocked cdl door, hanging off the platform end ? At Tame Bridge Parkway it got even more dangerous as its only a 4 coach platform, and CDL is not SDO….on a 12 coach train… but fortunately there was stewards to protect them… but stewards arent recognised as being required for CDL once its in place… phew it was lucky that someone thought to be safer than that… disaster avoided… could have been really ugly…. But nah its not a wcrc operated train so no one cares. it was nice an cool in the buffet car too… all those open windows, and droplights protected only by a latch but its ok because theirs a big green sign limiting liability/making compliance… is it ok for Pathfinder to put a non compliant mk1 in the rake but not wcrc on the Jacobite ? Maybe I see things differently, with a clearer head… because I can look at it from a commercial angle, rather than a subsidized unionised public sector money pit in all but name angle. I also see loads of hypocrisy in the thread. Ive also got no axe to grind against any TOC… I dont really care. I will say others are catching me up in posts as a combination of becoming a bit more disinterested, and summers coming attracting me to other things. My gut tells me the mainline is going to be a quieter place next year, and not just wcrc. Anyway As you chose to bait me, I would like to say this post…., full of top shelf hit em hard language… With this 1 line response to shut it all down, was for me the most entertaining, informative and symbolic one liner ive seem in this thread so far. 😀 A quite interesting solution, which if the case suggests a cdl power solution for mk1’s also ?

Comparing old and new is something I like doing. But unfortunately i’m not convinced and havent bought one. Looking over the pictures theres clear upgrades, to cylinders, boiler separate features, an improved cab back head, chimney detail, motion. The wheels look fantastic. The wheels particularly the axles, and tyres look good. I might be alone in liking the ability to change lamps, and illuminated firebox glow. (I was told at warley they were planning to glue them in for delivery, and my gut feel at Sams video hints they maybe. I suspect Hornby may get a number of returns of these broken). Hornby deserves credit for this innovation, and absolutely should continue imo, and credit for listening on being able to pose the lamps, but it may need a little more work… A suggestion for the lamps / lampirons for the future… under the light track fit a neo magnet, and make the lamps metal so they attract and hold but can be easy to move. If theres an after market supplier thinking of doing this, it may not be the worst approach… tbh I think the 3 leds is overkill anyway.. if the lamps there its on… so 1 led and a light track to all positions would suffice imo. What I see as the downside is the difficulty changing the lamps, width between loco and tender, lack of metal body to add weight. For DC users that flywheel is quite important for low speed and for rhythm.. you could see the jerkiness of the model in Sams trains review, even with the P2 tender. This will only bite harder if the track isnt clean, going back to the 1990’s this was why flywheels came to DC models in the pre DCC era… The presence of axle bearings, hall sensor all line up to a nice model. The snow ploughs look a nice touch too. I was wondering whether to buy a 5200, but the silver paint finish on the axles, cylinder head and smokebox are off putting what should really be metallic finish… knowing that is something I will have to change means It wont be an A-list purchase at over £200. A very nice looking model, I want one, but at the price it is, I feel its short comings outweigh its benefits.., which is a pity as theres definitely a lot of benefits there… the old black 5 will look poor next to it and the detail is there… £170 i’d probably move, indeed I’d probably buy in for a few, but >£200 i’m happy to sit out…the 9F, the 2MT this clearly is not, and the world has slightly changed since 2020. What would it take to get to a £220+ model.. metal body, easy to adjust lamps, flywheel.. all of which I think they could do. why ? The moment I put a dab of paint on that £200 model to suit my style, ive knocked £50 off its residual value…. And if in 6 months it price drops £50.. then ive laid waste to £100… or in old money models.. that was the cost for an entire loco ive just lost. This is no longer a game of buying a model as a “starting point to customize”… though if the price drops in 6 months I may have a dabble, and with a dozen Black 5’s already i’m not missing out, where as the £100 i just didnt lay waste to finds umpteen other uses. i’m just hoping the bent frame, glue marks, tender issue etc is just something in Sams unique instance, however I also fear that perennial issue of the drivers side wind shields getting damaged looks to have passed into the new model too… and I never found spares for the old model. Lets see what 45157 brings, but when I look at a Black 5, I see Black wheels, like this… not shiny rims like this… And really hope all the lamps are in the bag, and let me fit them myself.

maybe its time to look at the discount pattern from a new perspective… correct as at 21-Apr at 2100 Mostly rolling stock, and models by the traditional big three, whom arguably the ones with the higher price points.