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adb968008

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Posts posted by adb968008

  1. 16 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

    Interesting that this is lower than the class 20. Remarkable what having a competing model in the market from a rival does for prices.  

    2 competing models…

     

    though I fear the Heljan 25 myself, the SLW 25 is a hard act to follow at any price.

  2. 5 minutes ago, hayfield said:

    adb968008

     

    I have read elsewhere its the lack of border staff or Eurostar unwilling to pay for them at Ashford and Ebbsfleet

     

    There is more car parking space at Ebbsfleet than St Pancras so that is a red herring, its more of transport from other stations / bus routes / taxis or friends picking up

     

    I understand just before covid signaling at  Ashford and Ebbsfleet to enable trains to stop. Its the usual French reluctance to loose their monopoly, which I believe will change in time by commercial pressure

    Agree.

     

    to me a 3rd country operator on HS1 is pie in the sky thinking.

     

    First is the horrendous land and set up costs for servicing in the UK, and secondly is the walls and barriers the French would put up.

     

    The best chance is DB via Amsterdam, 2nd best is a UK home grown option.

     

    But stories of Swiss, Spanish operators setting up is for the birds, unless youve got the French onside you wont even reach the tunnel.

     

    • Like 1
    • Round of applause 1
  3. 1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

    Eurostar have not managed the current requirements at St P as well as they could have.

    Also the border agencies have not provided enough staff to process passengers as quickly as most people would like.

    Basically £££££’s

     

    .

    Theres also Ebbsfleet…

     

    A car park by the motorway that would give faster access to the South East, and save pointless rail journeys to St Pancras to join the brawl that is St Pancras.

     

    if Eurostar cant manage the crowds.. off load some to elsewhere.

     

    but again its £€$¥.

     

    it serves Eurostars interests to do nothing and have a scrum at St Pancras, as its not there time or money wasted having everyone sprawling for hours around the station and theyve got no competition.

     

    they are just fat and lazy, and know theyve got it sown up.

    They are at optimum, change costs money, so why change anything?

  4. 1 hour ago, Legend said:


    Glasgow Central- Bishopton  about 14.5 miles £4.70 return 

    taxpayers are adding around £2.39 to that fare.

    Average revenue on the Inverclyde line is around £257 against a per train cost of £496 to operate each journey.. thats excluding track maintenance.

     

    download?inline

    Without taxpayer support only Glasgow to Edinburgh would exist, and thats only because the volumes of passengers allow the per mile fare cost to be lower than other regions.. rather than as elsewhere raising the price to subsidise other routes.

     

    Many Preserved railways are financially more sound than Scotrail

    • Like 2
    • Interesting/Thought-provoking 3
  5. 20 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

     

    I was pointing out the viewpoint of the majority of exhibition goers though, and getting the thread back on the subject, rather than my personal view.

     

    You just need to look at comments such as GWR engines all looking the same by those who need an appointment at Specsavers to realise that many don't even have an interest in "other" railways in their own country. And that's pretty tame compared to some of the views about "kettles", "boxes on wheels" and "smelly diesels"....

     

     

    Jason

    Thats not true about GWR locos though… theres 3 types of loco… 4-6-0’s, Prairies and Panniers, for 30 years, then along came the Hydraulics to give it some variety.

     

    😀


    more exciting than the LNE though, away from the mainlines everything is a black 6 wheeled J-Heap-o-S..t with a watercart tender, responsible for lining bargain pages in weekly emails.

     

    The LMS and the SR were by far the most technically advanced, as well as aesthetically pleasing, supported by well maintained legacy types suited to purpose and made in bulk.

    • Like 2
    • Funny 2
  6. Heres a couple from a railtrip in 2006…

     

    In 2006 Rybnik celebrated 150 years of railways, with a shed openday and 3 in bound steam railtours, including this one from Katowice.

     

    IMG_8799.jpeg.ddf4adafb8170529fa9a2e5064c2efc7.jpeg

     

    it arrived as 2 coaches inc the postal coach, but it quickly became clear the crowd was way inexcess of capacity.., by magnitudes. It was a pay on the day trip and cost less than a fiver !

     

    The train was delayed whilst they found two double deck coaches… we still left as the single most crowded railtour ive ever travelled on…

     

    IMG_8800.jpeg.e76bfd50394e2a935cdbd7ebb9fa3401.jpegIMG_8801.jpeg.91c2084b9d551918785539e0b4ee8756.jpeg

     

     

    yet enroute we still stopped to pick up more…

     

    IMG_8802.jpeg.ac915ddc03591fd7d70c266c4e0ef190.jpeg

     

     

    At Rybnik we were held to do a paralell arrival with the second inbound tour…

     

    IMG_8798.jpeg.8350b5a7e9870ef2f57b1b4dbfc63a8d.jpeg

     

    Of course this made disembarking pure comedy gold…

     

    IMG_8813.jpeg.76d6ac456cbae71d0ecb225dd7258fdf.jpeg

    and then number 3 arrived

     

    IMG_8797.jpeg.9d0accfa5a27cf791011547cd8a7cae9.jpeg

    on display was a variety of operational and preserved locos…

     

    IMG_8804.jpeg.92f0e8fff87883ee9afd449dbd8d147a.jpegIMG_8805.jpeg.7fb1f34d8921fb6ff25fbb606544727e.jpeg

     

    IMG_8803.jpeg.2bf55601222b296f8a8f0c2e8084d19a.jpeg

     

     

    The next day we headed to overnight to Warsaw (note Russian sleeper ) and onto Bialystok..

     

    IMG_8806.jpeg.2090bcbe56754093e1df353d47599578.jpeg
     

    whilst there, we did a depot visit, the shed master giving us a driver and a guided tour on an EU07…

     

    IMG_8807.jpeg.0cd52b04c1b9c791dbf5e7d4c3177ca5.jpeg


    heres the interior cubicle, whilst the EU07s were built under licence, some parts were UK sourced… those cubicle lights are identical EE cubicle lights including the moulding patterns !

     

    IMG_8816.jpeg.3b80719884f88cb4d9ddb4d04f68cb8c.jpeg

     

    And later the driver took us back to the station on ET22-951, which was our train loco back to Warsaw, seen prepping the loco in the right…

     

    IMG_8815.jpeg.a4d3b9213379d8fc362035d1d23d3479.jpeg


     

    IMG_8814.jpeg.760169d2c55a51af987d97a9b1c81ad8.jpeg

     

    Sadly on our way back the driver was involved in a fatal collision with a farm lorry, the farm driver losing his life.

     

    IMG_8808.jpeg.3f8102b10065ee18adcfdbb1b7e2e504.jpeg

     

    we were held 3 hours for formalities before being detrained and taking a mile walk to the next station, a local station called, Szepietowo, some opting for horse and cart ride from locals who turned up to help.

     

    IMG_8809.jpeg.9e10ca037904d5b008944a6c59db0ca3.jpeg
     

    At the time of the collision we were properly motoring, into 80-100 mph range, we heard the driver consistently sounding his horn and then a full brake application, I was thrown from my seat into the person in front, I saw others fly down the corridor, as you can see, we stopped some distance from the crossing on what was a straight down hill stretch to the crossing.

    IMG_8811.jpeg.f9ab950bc1b9330fa80871afae697433.jpeg
     

    oddly, the driver was replaced, the train to continued to the next station, then picked us all up and we all reboarded back to warsaw..

    (Our train is easy to spot in the distance, now only having 2 lights).

     

    IMG_8817.jpeg.141740ebbd525230c1189db864ec6cde.jpeg

    The station itself being a local wasnt used to the platforms being full, it felt a surreal scene from The Great Escape,  Most of the passengers where chatty obviously talking about what happened and many of us recognising each other, yet all strangers.

     

    IMG_8812.jpeg.ef6944b65bf6e10731326f754ebb05af.jpeg
     

     

     

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
    • Interesting/Thought-provoking 3
  7. 53 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

     

    Judging just from the number of people I know locally who habitually pre-ordered major Hornby items through Hatton's until the introduction of the Tier system, having that revenue cut off worldwide for three years must represent one hell of a chunk of lost turnover, however one looks at it. 

     

    The loss of Bachmann sales won't have helped either, but the circumstances were different, and I suspect the lost volume would have been rather less anyway.


     

    i can only speak for myself, but…

     

    Hattons had two tricks that drew not only my orders, but my anscillary orders too…

     

    1. Mass discounting on pre orders

    2. bulk discounting “Bargains” pages

     

    1. Before retail price maintenance discounts limits was widely enforced by most manufacturers on all new releases from c2017-2019, there was an inevitable race to the bottom on new releases… 25-35% from the get go… bad for the wider high st retail, but great for online consumers like Hattons.


    2. if a manufacturers warehouse got in a stock pickle, Hattons would bulk buy and stack em high, sell em cheap… I recall Bachmann compounds at £79, Hornby B1’s at £69 and K1’s at £54, Heljan 47’s at £49, 4 packs of mk1 sleepers were cheap for extended periods…. This also tapered away by c2019.

     

    When these happened, I wouldnt just add these to my basket, but take oppourtunity to fill the box with whatever was on my list.. paint, track, buildings, couplings, other rolling stock, locos whatever… these were typically lower value but not discounted, and assume Hattons could pick up a margin here.

     

    But also, as I was buying 1 & 2 above, it would make-sense to add in other manufacturers ranges too…

     

    The rot for me set in, when pre order prices became non guaranteed, at which point there was no need to pre-order. When Bachmann and Hornby ended, it also saw me shift those ancillary orders of other retailers too.

     

    I also saw a couple of domestic only retailers start to add in their own loyalty programs (points), layaways (wait until the 6 weeks passed), or quite simply offer an under the counter discount, or honour an older price.. at which point my interest to Hattons became more of s/h or class 66’s and my orders simply drained away to which ever retailer was offering which ever incentive at the time.

     

    If there was one thing Hattons could have done to stop the drain, I think it would have been either a loyalty program, or a “make an offer” feature on some items.

    I do think they could have continued in their own ranges, especially ancillary products.

     

    I have found only a few shops do this, and despite what I spend, ive never felt much loyalty back, so i have drifted my custom with the tide, the obvious two shout outs are Kernow and Accurascale, Hornby also to some extent who offer such loyalty. 

     

    My concern is the draw to manufacturer websites for preorders, whilst theres nothing wrong with it, it becomes single product centric.. I cant buy those paints and track with that new loco if they dont sell it, and those who do, i’m ordering for something that may not turn up until next year.. where as with Hattons I could trunk it on arrival and build up a box of contents… I still think theres an opportunity here, for retailers who offer more than just locos.


    Whilst ive heard a few in the trade moan about the concept of trunk… remember whats in the trunk was sold and paid for… so youve sold an item that was already in stock occupying space on your shelf at your own cost, the difference now is youve got cash in the bank and just waiting for it to leave… Hattons werent adverse to flushing the trunks and sending everything occasionally too…

     

    Whilst i am a domestic buyer, I travel a lot, and it can be painful when something lands, whilst away for work… Just the other week Rails dropped the E2001, and DPD shipped without notice, they tried delivering once, then left it at a garden centre 5 miles away with 5 days to collect.. the five I was in Europe. Of course I contacted Rails and got tumbleweed … I had to ask a neighbour to collect, who, is now away themselves.. so here I am a month later ive still not got the box… my SRM still havent reached my arms to because of a similar mistimed journey… then last night I finally got my SLW25’s, sent 3 weeks ago.. only to find the order was wrong.. consumers have needs too, if you make it hard to do business with, they will stop doing business with you.

     

     

    • Like 5
    • Agree 1
  8. China is retrenching fast on railway projects in Africa.

     

    Hence why the HSTs went to Nigeria.

     

    isnt Kenya having issues with Chinese financing of rolling stock to ?

     

    I suspect China is learning what the Americans learnt in the 70’s and what we learned earlier that many parts of Africa arent economically developed enough to support the latest high tech. There are certainly more power houses in Africa now then there was, but not everywhere and at very different levels.

     

     

    • Like 1
    • Agree 1
  9. On 12/03/2024 at 17:58, SM42 said:

     

    There's a contract  just signed for the construction of a new 2.4 mile tunnel between Krakow and Nowy Sacz along with other works en route to Chabowka which will reduce Krakow to Zakopane to around 90 minutes by 2029 and Krakow to Nowy Sacz from 3 to 1 hour. 

     

    Exciting times

     

    Andy

    Just read about this tunnel here..

    https://krakow.tvp.pl/76340601/na-linii-limanowa-nowy-sacz-powstanie-najdluzszy-tunel-kolejowy-w-polsce-o-dlugosci-38-km#:~:text=Na kolejowym odcinku Limanowa – Nowy,czwartego odcinka linii nr 104.
     

    ive a funny story about Limanova, back in 2007 Chabowka did a big steam event here.

    It was basically a Rainhill style procession of loco hauled trains, which ran up the branch tender first, detached / split and coupled to the rear of the train ahead of it, then each loco lead front first back down the branch with its train… There was about a dozen locos involved in this.

     

    heres the set up run..

    IMG_8789.jpeg.194ca2e7b08c4373c2f1bca03e6cfb20.jpeg

     

    I found a nice field, and got views like this…

     

    IMG_8781.jpeg.9ada97922f48a2cf2785316b78094d52.jpeg


    but occasionally other photographers would just walk into the field close to the track.

    Now this German guy close by came prepared.. first shouting, then produced a Duck Quacking air horn that got everyones attention…

    IMG_8780.jpeg.d4918dd0137b7231a77099a0166c40e2.jpeg

     

    So far so good, but after a while the photographers ignored him, at which point he produced and fired off a shot gun! At which everyone packed up and took off !

     

    I found a new camp here..

     

    IMG_8782.jpeg.61a3bd137ec1dad4c655071e9a40e595.jpeg

     

     

    Standing on a tree trunk, that suddenly moved and a massive snake came out and went off into the fields !!

     

    So I decided at that to be less at one with nature…

     

    IMG_8784.jpeg.d5af9ef916bcfb8b50cc841fb58f5927.jpeg

     


    There was participation from Slovakia and Germany..

    IMG_8786.jpeg.40c913797fc9c631bd7ffadd50e2fcc8.jpeg

     

    As each train returned back down to Chabowka, the station announcer announced it on the tannoy as a normal service arriving…

     

    giving scenes like this…

     

    IMG_8785.jpeg.78dab4b36c408502d1311367adfeb521.jpeg

    (slovaks brought their own beer wagon)

     

    and of course freight went to the yard…

    IMG_8787.jpeg.a49fca14051c52b008af534323cd9d9a.jpeg

     

    IMG_8788.jpeg
     

     

    Whilst ive done Wolsztyn many times, I found Chabowka much more atmospheric. Of course one is a museum, the other is a commercial steam operation.

     

    All of this scene is now gone beyond recognition…

    The line is to be fully electrified and has been totally ripped up to be regraded and relayed….

     

    This is Chabowka in 2023, taken from the same point as where the CSD pair were…

    IMG_3961.jpeg.e7d415b8ac9eee6e360c05fbd9fdf2c8.jpeg

     

    This is Rabka Zdroj last month..

     

    IMG_3270.jpeg.113670495b9b6a7d49204ee3241d4ee7.jpeg

     

    And look back to the opposite side of the curve where the BR03 was…

    IMG_3272.jpeg.c1a037e099a6c88681fab3090f1d70fd.jpeg


     

    and beyond towards Limanowa

     

    IMG_3274.jpeg.0a1b5820eef8a7241d756fe0ba5a49b7.jpeg

     

    Theres been a huge amount of residential building along this route in the last decade, as Zakopane has insane property prices but the desire for a mountain holiday home hasnt waned, its spread more into the valleys.

     

    Future trackwork has this interesting style of sleepers…

    IMG_3284.jpeg.4ba933ffd9546e610e80aa52f7dd9031.jpeg

     

    and of course the new electrics…

     

    IMG_4595.jpeg.e5acd810ea451634967fbeb033902a0c.jpeg

    • Like 1
  10. 9 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

    Toy trains by contrast are not something which is needed for business purposes

    Marketing are very creative at what toys they create.

    if you attend some of the events i goto you might be scared at how much marketing can spend on giveaways.

     

    The funniest though by far, was a show in Dubai, the corporate host (a multi-bn $ US company) had locally arranged marketing gifts… in this case it was a traditional hookah pipe and bowl, complete with the US companies corporate logo on. When the US team heard this, they went off the scale as they saw this as nothing other than there corporate logo on a bong.. and immediately had them recall the lot before the show opened and sent to the US for destruction…. I recall these were $100 a piece that was trashed… show opened giving away corporate branded pencils instead.


    I recently hosted an event at Man Utd (i know i know), the giveaway we did was branded umbrellas and branded Nike shirts… it was Manchester in december afterall, cost of that was probably greater than a Drax wagon.. we had none left at days end.


    Marketing is a business cost and creative by nature, putting a message out isnt cheap and its gimmicks that often give that crucial memory retention when it comes to recalling potential suppliers… Though I have to admit much of the basic trade show tat is toys for my little one… ive any number of corporate fluffy clouds, iphone holders, wireless chargers, magnetic toys, golf balls etc.

     

     

    • Funny 1
  11. 7 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

    I keep looking at my 901 project bits and think if I build it some one will make it RTR... My 48 sat waiting for the varnish to dry when Model Rail announced there's, so no doubt if I get round to 901 I know what will be coming, watch this space!

    Cheers

    James

    Same here, i have an A1 etch for the 47/9 looking at me, for 2 decades !

    • Like 1
  12. 4 hours ago, chiefpenguin said:

    If that really is the case then you are buying from the wrong UK sources.

     

    i thought it was pretty obvious I was no longer buying HO from UK sources.

    if there's a retailer in the UK that can match European prices i’m all ears.

     

    Hattons used to have some good deals on second hand HO, that said ebay UK can bring up some real s/h bargains as I dont think Europeans are buying it from the UK now and demand is much lower for HO domestically, so there is some upside to the current situation.

    That said I have a super rare roco/xenia CSD E666 to sell and I doubt anyone in the UK will appreciate its value, and suspect Europeans maybe wary to buy from here on ebay.

     

    I was hoping on Hattons marketplace to be a platform for me but that never got fully off the ground.

     

     

    4 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

    I haven't quite worked out why they aren't adding VAT to UK customers? 

     

    all of my recent HO stuff has been locos/ units and it gets sent tax free, but the courier does the tax and admin fee on or around delivery.

    seems quite straight forwards… some hold until its paid, others send a request for payment after delivery.

     

    I should add this is no different to buying from the US or China in terms of mail processing / handling.

     

    I appreciate the UK seems much less bureaucratic than some countries that receive mail from the Uk, I have heard varying stories, but thats more of a reflection of the recipient country, than us.

     

    Several countries are shifting the onus of tax onto the retailer sending it (effectively customs preclearance), which should really make it a smoother transaction for the customer, this is something I understood Hattons had done in some countries.

     

    i’m due an LS Models SBB Panoramic coach tomorrow, arriving from Germany, nice to compare against my new mk2b’s… the SBB panoramic coaches are currently on hire to pkp/obb for the Przemysl (Ukraine border) to Vienna services as 1st class coaches, will see how that goes.

     

     

     

     

    • Like 1
  13. 8 hours ago, Nick C said:

    Shame the EN57's have gone, I rather like them! I suspect the general public don't though!

     

    The last time we went there, the whole line was shut for the aforementioned relaying, and we ended up on a minibus all the way from Krakow to Sucha Beskidska...

    I think the “new” suburban units are a mix of new build and refurb’s.

     

    The intercity Stadler EMUs are actually very nice, and come with Wars catering car…. Beer in a glass, Breaded pork cutlet with pierogi… lovely.

     

    been skiing out in Chabowka and tatras (snow is snow, beer is beer, but prices in Poland are 1/10th of Frances slopes), every year and have a photo/video record of the places for nigh on two decades.


    2022..  EP08-1051 here was the loco that was once painted in BR Electric blue with lion and wheel logos…, seen at Chabowka

    IMG_4657.jpeg.817c2c12dc015ba107853c08a147ee39.jpeg

     

    IMG_4586.jpeg.d52e50b5debef81cbb48975d5a6f3084.jpeg

     

    Stadler unit at Skomielna biala

     

     


    2024..

     

    Brand new Chabowka Stadion station..

    IMG_3116.jpeg.8af1d2d0e8d22522d07298cb3552d228.jpeg
    Some EN57’s are about, running locals from Zakopane to Chabowka

     

    IMG_3294.jpeg.06fa4bb5126f5442eeeb4f2b0474875f.jpeg

    Warsaw intercity service

     

     

    just take your own tea bags…

     

    IMG_4471.jpeg.8ea5fa21ab2bb6aa95e831ecd5a12117.jpeg

     

    • Like 4
  14. 12 hours ago, phil-b259 said:


     

     

    The only way I could see the ‘free’ Trunk system working (without customers effectively paying rent on the space used to store goods before dispatch) is if it was strictly time limited - and by that we are talking a matter of a couple of weeks rather than months.

     

    As for shipping options and dealing with customs / VAT in house - that’s a lot of extra hassle and cost for a retailer to deal with - yet the whole reason why buyers want it is to reduce what they have to pay…..

     

    Sorry that’s not how it works - you want the retailer to do more then you are going to have to pay for it through higher, not lower prices….

     


    Model Bahn Shop Lippe, and Model Bahn Union both have no issues dealing with international sales to the UK, they too have the same post Brexit tax issues, but in reverse.

     

    Indeed even with the tax bureacracy and greedy couriers I can buy HO in Germany, taxes included for 20-50% less than I can buy it in the UK… oddly the rrp prices for buying HO in Germany are now cheaper than before Brexit, as back then I would pay 22% German tax, not the 20% tax here in the UK… 

     

    In the post Brexit world UK businesses need to adapt to a global market and tax bureaucracy if they are to survive, unless they want to be domestic only traders. So far the legacy has been lethargy and price increases.

     

    HO rrp in the Uk is much higher now, but indeed modelling HO is becoming cheaper than OO in some areas, if you buy from the continent.


    I do believe s/h exports was a sizeable business to Hattons, if that market for export has gone, you have to remember that it lowers the value in our own market… as they arent leaving our shores any more, plus youve one less major retailer to sell all your old junk too.

     

    Personally I’m not convinced blaming johnny foreigner for Hattons demise is right (even if its a very British thing to do)… all I needed to do was look at my past orders to see my contribution to there demise…. My orders fell off a cliff once Hornby and Bachmann stopped supplying and you cant blame the Germans for that.


    Post covid the whole market has changed, new suppliers have direct sales channels, inflation is eating disposable income and inflation is increasing prices, so its a triple hit to a retailer.. and not for the short term either. I honestly think smaller is better in hard times, and Hattons wasnt small by any means, and making it small would be very hard imo.

     

    If this country is to break the death spiral its in, we need to export more, not less, otherwise Hattons wont be the last one to wrap up, and we’ll be left drowning in second hand tat.

     

     

    • Like 2
    • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
  15. As we are in the realms of speculation, my hat in the ring would be to suggest Hattons website was an excellant platform for selling second hand models, and better than Rails’s own for advertising second hand, and of course offers an alternative to ebay.


    So if Hattons continued as a second hand platform for Rails’s second hand stock, to me that looks like a nice win win and separates new from second hand.

     

    Lets face it the demise of Hattons isnt going to change the way any retailer sells new stock, but if your selling second hand a vast opportunity now arises with the demise of Hattons… Theres not many online retailers who offer it, outside ebay, and imo this is the biggest growth area.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • Like 1
    • Interesting/Thought-provoking 2
  16. 1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:


    EXACTLY

     

    Anyone who thinks that this new body is somehow going to be able to escape from doing what Whitehall / Politicians / Civil servants tell it what to do is living in cloud cockoo land…..

    As long as the tax payer is paying in, the government will have an outsized political stake.

     

    I guess if this framework takes off, the government could seek to offload the IRB  as a franchise to a private player, and thus get the tax payer stake off its back., whilst retaining influence but putting it in the private sector. (that proposed act is very clear IRB employees aren't going to be government / crown employees).

    This could put the IRB as a mcdonalds corporation… a big land owner, network of franchises and arbitrartor of matching service to demand, whilst not making many burgers itself.

     

    It feels similar motions are taking place with the NHS, and all these BBC backed promotions for testing the population, for various diseases, whilst the service is on its knees for capacity is an exercise in building a business case of showing demand for services to interested bidders in taking on the NHS trusts and hospitals network.

     

    The government is broke, bottom line.
    It will need to turn cost centres into revenue streams and offload them… the Government has a special way with doing that through the decades.. separating the Post office from the GPO was a good example.

    I dont see another way for the government to offload 90% of gdp in debt, plus interest..  it’ll be a great carrot in a US trade deal too.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • Like 1
    • Informative/Useful 1
  17. 13 hours ago, scouse889 said:


    I’m sure I have read somewhere that Drax own the tooling too - although of course I have no idea if this is correct.

    The first batch R6723 and R6724 were limited editions only available from Hattons at £83 per wagon in 2016.

    It was then several years before a second batch in the revised Northern Powerhouse livery was announced (R60176 and R60177, arriving Christmas Eve 2022 IIRC) and these were twin packs priced at £49, so at £24.50 per wagon were amazing value and less than a third of the price of the originals, even ignoring any inflation.

    So whatever the state of play with the tooling, one would hope if it could be done once it could be done again….

    I’d be fascinated to understand more of that second batch.

    The pricing defied logic, and seemed at odds with what was told to us about the first lot.

    Further the second batch was presented as single wagons as a limited edition, and retailers got ridiculous small allocations leading to a frenzy and ill will. Yet when it arrived it seemingly was a massive over supply, and of course twin packs.

    It felt to me like multiple cockups and chaos rather than either planning or conspiracy.

     

    It certainly lead to me losing my rag with Hornbys pre-orders, which its never bounced back from and now I just wait and see what lands before / if I buy it… which has massively reduced my Hornby spend.. I just don't trust them in advance any more, indeed I dont trust the discounting after it lands either.

     

     

     

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  18. 15 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

     

     

    The danger with Fraser's is then doing this to take the Hornby brand awareness and use it to front a toy company producing generic products, much as they have done with brands like Karrimor.

    I’d wager Brio outsells any other model train manufacturer… and its as basic as it gets and as cheap as it comes.

    If thats what Hornby wants to take on, in order to be profitable, then thats the route it should go imo.

     

    It might not be what we modellers want, but ultimately Hornby answers to shareholders, not us.

    Hornby is just a company, just a name, its not set in stone that it as a company exists to serve super detailed modellers…if it found profit in being a Bakery… then a Bakery it should become.

     

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  19. I for one bemoan the lack of modern units.

    I think the lack of them is a restriction of the future market for todays younger modellers.

    I would love the thought of a 2024 Lima delivering cheap units for that market.

     

    However Manufacturers tell us the cost of super detail vs basic detail is so slim the costs of doing a basic model won’t save that much at RRP than having a super detail model.

     

    And the customer really wants a basic model on belief the product would be a lower cost.

    Also consider sizing how many units the consumer may actually buy.

     

    Obviously theres a gap, which is currently too wide to cross.

     

    If Manufacturers can get a unit at a cost, that reflects size of demand and a price consumers will pay, the level of detail will be an issue that solves itself.

     

    so does it make sense to make basic cheap ranges ?

     

    If there was a way to fill that gap, maybe modern prepainted airfix style kits are the answer ?

    - Perhaps not, Bratchell has been doing this for years, and they are more expensive than a rtr unit.

    To get to “cheap” you have to make a lot, and it seems not enough of us want it.

     

    So otherwise wait for an innovation in China that makes cheaper models, or wage inflation here to enable the consumer to be able to afford them, or a growth in demand.

     

    Until then, the younger ones are using virtualisation for modelling… I recently drove a pacer in Roblox, and have to admit it was pretty good, but  having it pass an Electrostar and a Union Pacific SD90 was stretching reality… that said my physical layout has similar reality issues. I have to be honest I have far less storage issues virtually, and the boxes don't get damaged and bits dont fall off either.

     

    For now Its Arthurs sword in the stone, it glimmers, but its a teasing problem that going to take a while to be solved.

     

    it is what it is.

     

     

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