Wheatley
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Posts posted by Wheatley
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The Victorian response to staff safety concerns was to add a couple more handrails (if aesthetically appropriate), e.g. extending those on the boiler side round the corner to join up with the one over the smokebox door, and the extra cabside handrail on the Compound pictured earlier.
No doubt any request for compensation would be declined as anyone daft enough to fall off a footplate was clearly not exercising sufficient care for the task in hand.
Edit - Completely off topic but i'm 99% sure the gent in the yellow vest on that Compound at Hellifield is the legendary Traction Inspector Bob Phizackerly. He once derailed 'Bahamas' coming off the K&WVR and then wrote his own investigation report ! There was nothing wrong with his conclusion ("The derailment occurred because I forgot to remove the derailer") but I had to politely refer it back 'for further work' - i.e. is there any chance someone other than the person who caused the derailment could countersign the report please ? Absolute star.
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4 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:
I am trying to workout how you would get out of a hardworking 4-4-0 at 30mph at 3am in the pitch dark with an oil can and lamp.
As previously advised - out through the gap between the cab sidesheets and tender then round via the footplating provided for the purpose. Either lamp and oil can in one hand and the other on the handrail, or arm hooked over the handrail and one in each hand. The fireman would be more than capable of minding things on the footplate for the period the driver was away.
Just because
we've gone soft in the meantimeunnecessary risks are no longer tolerated doesn't mean it can't be done.There is an Ivo Peters cine film of a Caley 0-6-0 on a railtour in 1963, the fireman is out on the footplate braying the Westinghouse pump with the coal hammer as the train approaches Whithorn, so it wasn't just a pre-grouping practice.
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Can't be British, there's no sign of an idiot wizard.
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15 hours ago, zr2498 said:
Sam maybe has a point, that it is no good adding gimmicks or supposed upgrades if it comes at the expense of the fundamentals.
Whilst I disagree with most of his Horribly Faulty reviewing (sic) techniques, he's right on that one.
12 hours ago, Brocp said:Come on Accurascale, annouce a proper gimmickless Black 5.
Yes. Yes please.
I'll wait to see it in the flesh, I can use as many Black 5s as I can get my hands on but it's going to have to be good to justify the expense compared to the old model + aftermarket.
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On 13/02/2024 at 11:30, Michael Hodgson said:
Green flag waved slowly from side to side was an emergency signal given to drivers of trains which have divided, where suddenly stopping would run the risk of the back part catching up and colliding with the front part. It was used at various dates, but whether or not it was appropriate would depend on gradients, and to a large extent also on the signalmans judgment on the best course of action. When given, this signal authorised the passing of signals at danger, letting the first portion continue into a section already occupied, and the driver has to understand that he may have to stop because of the train that's already there; the hope however is that it is carrying on in blissful ignorance. Train divided bells signal may been received from the box in rear to advise the signalman.
Sorry, only just noticed this. Yes you're absolutely right, apologies.
Green waved slowly - train divided.
Green held steady - Warning acceptance - section clear but station or junction blocked.
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42 minutes ago, stovepipe said:
Then they messed up the ice blue livery version.
Was that the one where they interpreted a black and white photo of "mostly dirty with a few clean bits" as "blue with white patches" ?
I shall have one of these to go with the Parksides.
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1 hour ago, Dad-1 said:
Am I now addicted to oddball wagons - Probably !!
Geoff T.
https://www.departmentals.com/departmental/041707
I dare you.
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40 minutes ago, pheaton said:
The other one i havent seen mentioned...is in the early years of the 158s, they very very frequently seen with a sprinter attached...and the reason was that because they didn't have tread brakes, dirt on the wheels would build up and insulate them from track circuits, so a 15x was normally added to formation because they had tread brakes. 158s were eventually modified with a tread brake on the outer wheelset of each car to resolve this problem.
The 156/158 combo was a short term autumn-only arrangement (unless the 156 was deputising for a failed 158). The 158s have scrubber blocks fitted rather than a tread brake.
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This came up recently but I can't find the thread. Somewhere there is some old cine film of a couple of Black Macs checking the structure gauge by standing in an open wagon using tape measures and poles. If you know the distance from the top edge of a wagon of known dimensions you can extrapolate the rest.
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The only departure from 'normal' token exchange at St Bees is that drivers will, by local arrangement, take the token to the box themselves if it saves time and the signaller is doing something else (like putting the gates up and down). St Bees village is cut off from the north while ever the gates are down, the alternative route is 6 miles back the way you just came.
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On 14/04/2024 at 22:32, adb968008 said:
Do you where the Bolton lines were heading ? I’m guessing Blackpool from WYorks somewhere ? I only ever went towards Manchester on these.
Further to last, the collective opinion of the Northern Old Gits (standing around gassing while we wait for our laptops to update themselves again) Collective this morning was that any (Edit - RRNE/WYPTE) 155s on the Bolton Corridor early on would have been diversions with a route conductor on board. Leeds (we think) and York crews (definitely) didn't sign Bolton at that date, and no drivers on the NW had traction knowledge. Such diversions may not have been uncommon depending on what was going on engineering-wise of course.
Using them for other than York - Bradford - Man Vic - Blackpool services definitely needed the Duty Control Manager's permission.
The doors were problematic at first, at one stage they were all (?) out of traffic awaiting Leyland fixing a problem with microswitches I believe. They were set up on depots which were largely straight and level - once out in the wild on canted platforms the downhill doors didn't close enough to trip the door proving relay, and the uphill doors didn't open enough to untrip it. Or something.
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14 minutes ago, adb968008 said:
Do you where the Bolton lines were heading ? I’m guessing Blackpool from WYorks somewhere ?
York/Leeds - Blackpool I expect, but in theory they should have gone via Bradford Interchange. My recollection of exactly which services went which way is waining a bit after all these years !
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1 hour ago, adb968008 said:
I saw all the wypte ones, on the left side of the penines.
Preston, Bolton, Salford, Victoria..
Yes, they were mostly diagrammed on York - Manchester (and beyond) services via the Calder Valley, they weren't confined to West Yorkshire but they did tend to stick to the core route. For quite a while WYPTE kept tabs and got shirty if they wondered off up towards Scarborough (for example) or Leeds- Sheffield despite York and Leeds crews having traction knowledge.
Later on they could go anywhere and these days they're all based at Hull !
WYPTE also paid for the 144 centre cars but had less say in where they went as their bit had to go where the 2/3 they didn't own went.
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5 hours ago, papagolfjuliet said:
without both 45T cranes available the NYMR has had to spend a fortune hiring in a Volker Rail Kirov crane when replacing Bridge 30 and the Goathland bridges.
I thought they got the Kirow either for free or at a greatly reduced rate - because NYMR is a charity Volker Rail could write it off as corporate social responsibility. There was something about them sharing a trustee/director too.
Likewise the last Moorsline I read before my membership expired described 'borrowing' a brand new tamper to do the carriage stable, the donor treating it as a training exercise. Which is why the Long Siding from Pickering is apparently technically fit for 100mph running.
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155s - although the RRNE Random Unit Generator* couid have its moments, the 155s were paid for by WYPTE so in the early days rarely worked off their core Calder Valley route unless the train plan had gone completely to hell.
156s - ER policy was that 2nd Gen units were not route cleared unless there was a need to route clear them, so these were quite restricted at first too. They were not cleared between Barnsley and Huddersfield for example, because those were 14x diagrams. Until Traffic Manager Hanton nicked one off a TP service one day to mitigate two consecutive 142 failures, and it rolled up at Penistone. After a brief conversation with Control (who had no idea it was there, Mr Hanton working on the 'forgiveness rather than permission' basis) the driver was instructed to continue to Barnsley, enter Silkstone Common platform at dead slow and report any impacts. After which they were deemed route cleared :-)
*(Completely outclassed by the later Northern Random Unit Generator which ensure that my commute from 2004 onwards was rarely the same type on two consecutive days).
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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:
*As the old rhyme would have it, 'the guard is the man/who rides in the van/the van's at the back of the train/The driver, in front, thinks the guard is a (something that rhymes)/and the guard thinks the driver's the same....'.
I learnt this on my Block Signalling course at Donny in 1987! Admittedly there were three redundant freight guards on the course so we obviously got a completely unbiased explanation of the then new DOO arrangements.
Sometime afterwards we were walking to lunch along the corridor in The Plant when we overheard rhythmic chanting from the Boil in the Bag Driver's course next door, obviously learning some rule or other by rote.
"Listen boys, they're learning their DOO Times Table"
"What's that ?"
"One DOO is £4.12, two DOOs are £8.24..."
Thread drift, sorry :-)
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The comments section of any online newspaper is a good example of why the H&S stuff is needed. A significant number of people really are that stupid.
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1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:
Even if Hornby do include what amounts to a 'blanking plate' with a lamp iron on it, because it has to be robust and easy enough to remove it will not be a tight and close fit with the surrounding surfaces.
It'll be fine, just wipe a bit of filler over them while you're filling in all the ejector pin marks on the front frames.
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Snippets from RRNE -
Newcastle - Manchester and beyond services (what became Transpennine Express TOC in 2003 although that branding was in use long before that) were either single 3 car 158s (the Heaton 1588xx series) or 2x2 car 158s. One of the latter notoriously split on the ECML at Thirsk after the EBS was raised to clear an electrical fault and the front set sailed off merrily into the distance. Mercifully no-one fell out of the open gangways.
Leeds-Settle-Carlisle services were 2x156s from around 1991, the platforms on the S&C were extended with the bizarre 'ski-jump' extentions to get them up to 94m to fit. After 1994 the second 156 was frequently a 142 much to the disgust of user groups.
141s were only compatible within class and largely confined to Leeds-Harrogate-York until around 1990 when they were re-worked by Barclays to replace the Tightlock couplers with BSIs, after which they could go anywhere.
By 1987 Sheffield - Barnsley -Leeds/Huddersfield services were nearly all 101 or 110 power twins. If you saw a 4 car it was because the front one had failed and was being shoved by the following service. Only the110s could keep time reliably between Barnsley and Huddersfield but that didn't stop 101s appearing. From May 1988 there were progressivey replaced with 142/144s on the Huddersfields and 156s on the Leeds services
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1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:
... they operate it.
Their records will include a copy of the global station lease setting out their repair and mantenance responsibilities (which is essentially cleaning, and fixing things they're directly responsible for like ticket machines, the CCTV system, PA, and anything plugged in in the staff accommodation), an asbestos register, various inspection records and a sheaf of risk assessments.
It certainly won't include anything held by the previous operator unless it's Franchise Information as defined earlier.
Everything else including the paperwork for most of the retail outlet leases, maintenance of the lifts, fire alarm system, fabric of the building and stopping the roof leaking is held by Network Rail as thats all their responsibility as landlord to repair. The fact that getting them to fix any of that is likely getting blood out of a stone has driven succeeding generations of TOC property managers grey over the years.
Don't assume that a station lease is anything like a normal commercial FRI lease.
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Presumably the IP rights of the Big Four passed to the Railway Executive on privatisation, thence to BTC/BRB/DfT. DfT owns DOHL and therefore already owned the rights to the LNER name.
Certain information held by TOCs and required for a seamless change of ownership is defined as Franchise Information and must be handed over to the successor TOC on a change of franchisee. This generally includes personnel records, payroll records, station and other property repair and maintenance records, copies of the station and depot Global Lease agreements and the lease plans associated with those. Similarly the rolling stock repair and maintenance records will also transfer. Other than that I doubt the current LNER holds much from NXEC days never mind before, unless it's stuff they didn't chuck out when they moved out of York Main HQ.
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I meant the majority of brown vans were bog standard VANFITs, so only the PARTOs, SHOCKVANs, PALVANs, MOGOs, MEAT, FRUIT, FISH and others which were oddities needed to be identified to stop yard staff routinely nicking them to load potatoes or anything else which didn't need a specialist vehicle. Anything else brown, van shaped and unbranded - the vast majority - was a VANFIT by default.
In the same way that no-one initially considered it necessary to paint MIN 16 on the hundreds of thousands of steel 16 tonners because if it didn't say IRON ORE TIPPLER on it what else would it be ?
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7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:
I've missed a lot of the preceding pages
You didn't miss much, we'd already done most of it in the first two dozen pages. Some of it twice.
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WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.
in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)
Posted
Several of them moaning about not being able to lean out of the doors for photos too.