Andy Vincent

I did these a while back for a fellow modeller at South Hants MRC. After a parallel discussion with the LNWRS, I am now a membership fee poorer but do have some additional drawings to add 3 hole buffers to this and complete a detailing pack. This is one of a number of such packs (axleboxes with springs plus buffer guides for your choice of fixed or sprung heads) that will be available by ExpoEM (and probably a bit before) with several others to follow - and, yes, there will be a MR pack (10A) for ExpoEM!

A little before the time span of the work being undertaken at Portsmouth University to document all railway worker accidents in Britain and Ireland from the late 1880s to 1939. This is a collaboration between very many groups including the NRM and HMRS. Details at https://www.railwayaccidents.port.ac.uk/ for anyone not familiar with the project.

Time to reach for the MRS back numbers service then as someone quite late to the cause!

At the risk of pre-empting @Compound2632's next instalment in MRS Journal, is there any pattern to whether a D299 (or D351 and perhaps others) had a long brake lever (with lever guard outside of right-hand axle) or a short brake lever (with guard inside right-hand axle) - and did they keep whichever they were allocated until they were scrapped?

Is this for 4mm or something larger?

Crecy told me that there are ten volumes in total (all are written so just need production work) but they didn't elaborate on what volumes 7 to 10 will cover.

Maybe the period is a little late for @Compound2632 but overall good news for many of us coming next month https://www.crecy.co.uk/the-acquired-wagons-of-british-railways-volume-6

As an aside, at least for HMRS members, the internal LMS document that seems to have been the source for these drawings has surfaced from Bob's material. Whilst the drawings are still line drawings, the original drawings are much larger and the document also includes other related material of interest from the constituent companies. It is currently being scanned.

Often referred to as the 'dust shield'. You can see the way it slots in at the rear on this RCH 1907 drawing: [embedded link to LMS Society web site - RCH drawing 9]

I have a recollection (possibly faulty!) that canvas and the bedding compound underneath also provide a degree of protection from cinders. Having cinders landing directly on bare wood sounds like a recipe for disaster!

Looking through* those listed under 'diagram book' suggests that this term is used to cover many types of books of diagrams rather than specifically 'diagram books' as we use the term here. There are 19 entries listed for MR but the descriptions are very brief but you can submit a request to the archivist for more information. The most enigmatic is a reference to a CD. * Go to the the HMRS web site, click on Collections then Archive from the sub-meu. Next pick 'Diagram Books' under the 'Archive Section' filter, then Midland Railway under the 'Railway Company' filter.

At the last count, the HMRS holds 493 diagram books and part of the work we plan to undertake is to try and work out which have been scanned elsewhere, which exist elsewhere but have yet to be scanned and then initiate scanning of the balance. This is likely to be a medium term exercise at the very least . . .

In the vein of cross-checking notes, what is the story with Diagram 302/663A? @Compound2632's Autumn 2023 article has a single lot (506 - ordered 1901) for D302 (drawing 1490) covering just 12 wagons, of which three had raised ends. However, in MR Wagons Bob E lists 12 lots for D302 / drawing 3843 covering the period 1913 to 1920. These are part of those listed as D663A (although the first table seems to list them as D673A) in the MRS Journal article, i.e. those to drawing 3843. In Bob's book, diagram 663A is reserved for wagons to drawing 5279 - i.e. those that form the second part of the D663A group in the journal article. What further confuses me is that drawings 1490 and 3843 are 16' overall with side strapping whilst Bob's reproduction of the diagram book entry for D302 shows it as being 15' 11" and no side strapping. That said, the photos Bob includes to illustrate D302 do have side strapping. My tentative conclusion is that, with the knowledge available, Bob has assigned D302 to the 10 ton subset of D663A. However, even that interpretation has shortcomings as the diagram book entry Bob includes for D663A also shows 10 tons. Bob also uses the end stanchion design as a key differentiator. However, that is unlikely to be correct since drawing 5279 shows both wood and metal stanchion variants. Finally, and to destroy any remaining sense that I have of this, the photograph of 93166 is used in both @Compound2632's article and in Bob's book. Stephen lists it as an example of D663A from lot 825, whereas Bob describes it as an example of D302 (although it has strapping unlike the diagram book entry) from lot 823.. I am pretty sure that Stephen's article is correct (unfortunate typo excepted) but it would be interesting to understand why Bob classified part of D663A the way he did.

Wearing my HMRS Trustee hat for a moment, I think your follow-on comments and lines of inquiry would form the basis for an admirable sequel in the HMRS Journal . . . .

Interestingly, whilst it has curved ends and a sheet rail, Plate 53 in volume 2 of Bill Hudson's Private Owner Wagons has a Charles Roberts full height side door only wagon with the same plank configuration and (external) dimensions. It also has Attocks axleboxes. Built in 1907 for John F Scott lime works

I can but it will be later as I am now back on my work laptop. That said, if you click on the image (so it opens in a zoomed window), then right click on it, there is then a 'Save As' that allows you to save the image to your machine. I didn't downsize them before uploading them so the copy should be full resolution.

I will likely start the assembly of these in a couple of weeks or so, and that is the point where I re-check sources (including your articles) and any information that has come to light since I drafted the outline plan, so I will add this to the mix! My approach, which might provide some insight into the way in which bodies appear, is to decide on the area for the next six months or so, next draw the collection of common components that are needed for the target set of wagons, then finally assemble the wagon from the collection of parts (plus draw anything that is unique to that wagon). Some wagons do get test printed along the way, usually to test some component: getting a balance between fidelity and reliability for some of the tiny end detail on swivel/pivot type end door gear is a current pre-occupation! If the only difference between two wagons is the presence of an end strap, for example, then that can be a single assembly with the extra part(s) either selectively hidden in the assembly file or, more usually, fork the assembly ('derive' in Fusion 360 parlance) after the version without the end strap and add the extra component(s) to the child instance. That way, any corrections or improvements made to the base design (or to components) get automatically applied to both versions.

In that case, here are the planned part numbers: They should both be ready before expoEM

Like this you mean (admittedly not quite finished)? I am working my way through all these bits. The one saving grace - as you point out - is that having done one axlebox then they can apply to more than one wagon, either as built or in service

Hmm, Diagram 343 wasn't on my list although I did look at it very early on and left it out solely on the basis that I had in mind that I would start at D299 and end at D1667 and focusing on those where 1000 or more were built. I will add D343 - which brings it to a total of 15 diagrams/variations in the list then . . .

Somewhere down this thread I had a discussion on this and I was pointed at a couple of sources for underframe bits for 7mm. It is on my 'to do' list to find that very helpful discussion so that I can look at this in earnest now that I have a bit more time. All of my 4mm models have everything exactly scaled to the prototype so should essentially only need scaling for larger scales. Inevitably there will be something unexpected, possibly relating to supports etc when it is printed as overhangs will be bigger etc., but that should be manageable.

I am seeing @queensquare in a week or so and he is going to try a couple of test builds - or more it seems ;-) Assuming that is successful, I will need to decide how to make them available. The current generation assume a 2mm Association wagon chassis (in the same way that my 4mm bodies assume a Brassmasters chassis) but whether the 2mm Assoc would want to be involved in selling these bodies is not a discussion that I have had. By way of background, this started out about 18 months ago whilst I was at a Missenden Abbey Railway Modellers Summer Retreat. As I had a resin printer with me, and somewhat on a whim, I reduced one of the current 4mm bodies by 50% and printed it to see what happened. Whilst the sides were clearly too thin, it was surprisingly (to me anyway) pretty close in all other respects. I then commented that I would have to try and spend some more time on it. This finally happened over this winter. I have now updated the way in which I design wagons to remove any dependency on the thickness of sides and ends. This allows me to make the sides/ends disproportionately thicker and adjust any dependent components before the whole thing is then scaled by 50%. Curiously, this has also had some benefits in providing some noticeable improvements in the 4mm bodies too as several components were redrawn. To date, I have updated the Charles Roberts designs to the new approach and used it in some Midland bodies that are being finished off, This approach means that I can now produce a body optimized for 2mm in less than half an hour once the 4mm version is done. I will update the Gloucester designs at some point so that they too have 2mm versions but I am not quite sure when that will be - they also need an etched solebar overlay for the characteristic brake hanger. The 4mm bodies that are available are on the Brassmasters web site but there will be many more before expoEM so a revamp of marketing material is planned to include much more information. Not exactly a definitive answer to your question but hopefully there will be an answer will be soon.

I have done a couple of Charles Roberts now - I test printed a new one last night as it happens - and can happily do more if there are enough details to work from (ideally a photo with drawings and / or dimensions). Quite a few of the Charles Roberts drawings survive and I already have scans of a couple of them so it should be possible to get very close through some extrapolation as necessary.

Next time I am at TNA, I will look up these wagons in the Midland PO registers and take note of the (internal) dimensions. I am also open to other requests. Having Simon Turner's transcript, it is an easy matter to locate the entries and take the full details. I can see some extra evenings spent in CAD coming up then! By way of a sort of teaser, it will make a break from some Midland bodies coming to a brass items purveyor shortly . . . Incidentally, I now have test prints of some 2mm bodies (intended for 2mm Association chassis) after making a rash promise to a 2mm modeller of some renown. And no - you cant just reduce everything by 50% ;-)