robertcwp

They would certainly go well with Deltics and not out of place behind a 50 or a 31/4 either. 50040_17-4-80 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 31407_Doncaster_1729@1747_18-6-78 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 9007_1E11 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Test run of Mark 2b stock today. The train includes a Bachmann BG and a Hornby RB and FO.

Sorry, no it's not readable even on the master scan.

I thought the 2f had a bigger roof hatch than 2c to 2e but might be mistaken. I believe 2f had a heater unit in the system which 2d and 2e did not as they had separate pressure ventilation for heating.

I have been doing some coupling experiments. My Mark 2b stock needs to be able to couple to Bachmann Mark 2a stock and assorted Mark 1 stock such as Bachmann BGs and RUs and Hornby RBs and FOs. I tried Hornby magnetic couplings but the NEM boxes on the Bachmann 2a stock are so far back that they don't work. I could use Hunt ones but am not keen. I tried changing the 2b coupling mounts to the short version that came with the carriages and they seem fine but then I found that a short Bachmann tension lock in the standard Accurascale mount gives much the same spacing. So, for now, it's short t/l couplings for me.

If they can get the articulation to work, which it seems they can, then I hope so.

Just going off the bottom of this is Harris's comment about the brake third twin from set 103 being withdrawn due to the fire at Doncaster works, but this is contradicted by a photo in his own book of 1727/8 in BR days. It seems that, if any stock was damaged in the fire at Doncaster, it was repaired. Apart from the two twins destroyed at Huntingdon, for which there is photographic evidence of the wrecks, all the stock survived until the early 1960s.

The 'West Riding Limited' twin first was also destroyed in the Huntingdon fire. So far as I can establish, all the surviving twins gained extra doors after the fire and whilst still crimson and cream. What catches people out is that three of the four types had the extra door only on one side. The Twin-FOs had the doors on one side of each vehicle such that the doors were on opposite sides of the train. Viewed from the outside, the additional door was visible on the right-hand vehicle. Each vehicle thereby lost two seats. The BTO-TO twins and the RT-TO twins each had the extra door on one side of the TO (the side with the single seats, thereby losing two seats). The TO vehicles were laid out opposite ways round in terms of which side had the single seats so that on the BTO-TO twin with the brake to the left when viewed from the outside, there was no additional door visible, as shown in the photo of E1727/8E in LNER Carriages (Harris) page 70. On the RT-TO twin with the RT on the left viewed from the outside, there was an extra door visible on the TO. On the BTO-RT twin, the extra door was on the BTO on the side with the single seats only, so with the RT to the left and BTO to the right when viewed from the outside, you could see the extra door on the BTO. There are errors in the Harris LNER book regarding this stock.

Hard to tell for sure even on the full-size scan but it might be that part of the guttering has been replaced and the colours don't match. The far end is out of focus.

No problem.

The twin first is from the 'spare set' and has roller bearings for use in The Talisman. The number on the other one is not readable as it's out of focus. Apart from interior decor and lettering when new, all four sets were the same, albeit there were only two observation cars. The West Riding twin first and one of the Coronation twin brake third/thirds were destroyed in the Huntingdon fire.

As a number of BR Eastern modellers follow this thread, I thought these two images that I have added to my collection might be of interest: Twin-RS-SO_JUL-63 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr E1733-4E_YorkCW_28-9-63 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

This image might also be of interest. It shows the side of a second/kitchen second without the additional door: Twin-RS-SO_JUL-63 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

I am aware that they have built the doors into the design. One of the 3D printed mock-ups they had on show included the door on one side of the twin first. The question for me is when, if ever, Hornby will get round to actually doing the stock in maroon. I hope they get the doors right. They were on both sides of the twin first, one on each half, and on one side of the other three twins. The Silver Jubilee set, which Hornby is not doing (yet) did not gain additional doors.

I'm hoping Hornby will do this stock in maroon with the extra doors, like this: E1733-4E_YorkCW_28-9-63 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

I know, but a few wagons on Retford were found to be significantly out of alignment such you could see that the axles were not parallel and they were prone to derailing. Minor imperfections don't matter in EM and compensation is not really needed. Another problem which affects RTR as well as kit-built stock is back-to-backs being out, but that is more easily sorted. I went through the whole cement train on Retford last weekend. It was prone to derailing but having given it a service, it seems fine now. Wheels accumulate dirt and that causes drag and can lead to derailments. I have spent countless hours over the last few years cleaning carriage and wagon wheels.

Some current RTR models are far from robust. Think of the issues with the new Hornby BR Standard 2MT for example. Others are disappointing in other respects, eg the awful attempt at BR green on the Hornby A2/2 and A2/3, plus some quality issues. However, they do have some advantages over kits, especially for the 00 modeller, which most of those who model in 4mm scale are. RTR engines are better at negotiating tighter curves (eg the annoyingly sharp Peco double slip) and they mostly come ready for DCC and sound, if the owner wants it. My main layout is old-fashioned DC and I don't see the appeal of sound but any new layout of mine will be DCC only. They are also generally built 'square' although some can be wobbly runners. For most modellers, power is not really an issue as they won't be running scale length trains. Even RTR locos can often handle long trains with some additional weight, even if formed mostly of heavy metal kit-built carriages. Here is an example of what modern RTR can do - this is a Hornby 'Commonwealth of Australia' on the Elizabethan stock (10 out of 11 are metal kits) on Retford. It was a test run - hence no lamps or headboards. Sandra converted the engine to EM and added extra weight but it retains its Hornby mechanism. The main appeal of kits will probably be for those types not covered RTR, of which there are still many in the steam era. For rolling stock, there are very significant RTR gaps, such as decent GWR, LMS or LNER catering cars and various non-passenger types, as well as huge gaps such as Gresley end-door stock. Kits have some appeal here but lots of modellers seem not to care too much whether their trains are as prototypical as their engines. For wagons, kits cover many types not available RTR. However, even plastic kits can cause problems if not built 'square'. This is an issue that has manifested itself on Retford, where most of the troublesome wagons are kit-built ones that won't sit with all four wheels on the track at once. Most have now been weeded out and exiled to the back of the goods yard.

Thanks, I have far too many carriages anyway!

They should be worth a look!

I agree. The York show was excellent. Sorry I didn’t get to say hello during the day.

Full brake with deep upper crimson band - this one has the valances - also note the Thompson open on the right with the upper crimson band too: 60154_Doncaster_early-1950s by Robert Carroll, on Flickr No upper crimson band on this BG, which is one without the valances: 55217_ThorntonJct_22-4-57 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Brakes without the upper crimson band: 60911_Rickmansworth_1-11-57 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr V2 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 60048_ChalonersWhin_4-8-57 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr This is a 3-compartment one: 60151_York_24-3-57 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Some other stock with the band: 61558 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr E1106E_Craigentinny_12-4-54 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Leading one here is SC13834E: 68929_Harringay_1953 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

The first run of Bachmann Mark 2a stock had a very dark blue and a more grey shade of Rail Grey. I put one of the second run of Bachmann Mark 2a stock, a Bachmann 2f and an Accurascale 2b together yesterday and I agree that the livery match is pretty good.

The full brake was simply a swap for Gibson wheels. On the others that I have done for Retford (over 20), I bent the metal in slightly, clipped off the brake shoes and put Gibson or old Romford wheels in.

I saw that I was mentioned in the accompanying leaflet. Thanks for that. I tried to find the instructions for dismantling and changing couplings on the website but failed. Apologies if this has already been mentioned. I worked out how to do it. I decided not to change the couplings but dismantling is still necessary to put the curtains in first class. I may be a heretic but I don't go in for lights. Also, I have a DC layout and carriages with lighting bridge section breaks, which is a real pain. I found I had some old Romford 12mm diameter wheels, which fit the Accurascale bogies and mean that axle is insulated from both wheels so the carriage is electrically dead. I don't have enough for my planned 2c fleet so will probably order some Gibson wheels, but will do some tests first. I tried Bachmann wheels but they are too loose in the bogies as the pinpoints are a different shape. Overall the 2b stock looks very good. The livery doesn't match my Bachmann 2a stock but that is probably more to do with Bachmann's colours (I have the early release of that stock). However, I found the livery is a pretty good match for the most recent run of Hornby Mark 1 blue/grey buffet cars. Hornby magnetic couplings seem to fit OK and unlike the Accurascale ones they are not handed. One thing I would change is the shiny roofs. A much more matt finish would be better.

The early ones had blue asbestos insulation - hence their early demise. I also very much doubt if any made it into NSE livery.