robertcwp

I recall going to Expo EM not long after I turned 40 and it struck me that I was one of the youngest people there. Last year, whilst waiting for the doors to open at the Warley show, I looked around and the vast majority of those around me were of similar age or mostly older than me and I'm now not far off of 60. The Warley NEC show was a huge event for a club to put on and I can understand the issues that have led to this decision. Sad nonetheless. I think I have been to every Warley show at the NEC except possibly one or two when I was away for work. I helped exhibit layouts there a couple of times. Now, I shall have to find something else to do with the last weekend in November. Quite a few weekends have opened up in my diary with the demise of far too many shows recently.

This video of Retford from 2003 shows what it was like before that work was done.

I agree with keeping it factual and leaving the reader to draw conclusions. Comparative information between Peaks, 47s and 40s would be interesting, as would comparisons with Westerns and Warships.

I have recently completed reading this book and it is a very worthwhile addition to the library. It was particularly interesting to have an insight into the discussions that went on in BR and with supplies, in particular Sulzer, as the locos were being designed and as issues arose with production and whilst in service. As a result, I tracked down a copy of the book on the 47s that Simon Lilley co-authored and have now made a start on that one. I agree with Peter K that the book would have benefitted from a better proof read but I think such things are a luxury nowadays as most books have lots of errors, many of which are not the fault of the author. There are many from other publishers that are much worse than this one. One thing I did not find a clear explanation of was why the additional grille under the main grille was added to (it appears) all 46s but only some 45s and what was its function. I do wonder if it was part of the refurbishment specification which Brush stuck to for the 46s and Derby did not for the 45s. I was intrigued by the statement that Class 46s up to D148 (or thereabouts) did not have yellow panels when new. I don't recall having seen any photos of 46s in that style apart from the first few - D138 and D139 for example. One error I noted (page 55) relates to the cut-off when new between 46s with split centre headcodes and those with single piece centre headcodes without the middle divide. Other books get this wrong at a basic level by asserting that all 46s had the latter style from new. I believe the first one with the single centre panel was D174. There is a published, pre-refurbishment shot of D174 with single headcode and one of D170 with split centre box (Diesel Heyday - Sulzer Diesels in the 1960s, p27). I have a photo in my own collection of D171 with a split centre headcode (the number is clear on the full-size scan): D171_Retford by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

This photo provides a good comparison.

Very obvious if you know what to look for. D6583 later exhaust: D6583_Merstham_4-5-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr D6541 original exhaust: D6541_WortingJunction_c1967 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr D6535 original exhaust: D6535_May-66 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr The original was closer to the cab and there was a kind of box with a deep groove around it.

There is a blast from the past! I had forgotten about this. There is absolutely no doubt about the revised exhaust being there from new on the last few 'standard' 33s (ie not Hastings ones).

Speaking of Retford, this video from 2016 shows what I believe is a guest engine on test on Retford. Footage is credited to Tim Easter. The slightly disturbing thing is that I appear in the background. Others may recognise themselves. At least one person, Chris Foren, who appears is no longer with us. This is another video from the day.

As the 'driver' of Frank's J2 on the up Boat Train, I can confirm that it was on rather less than full power when Frank took the video. There was no trace of slip or difficulty in taking the train up the gradient in the GC fiddleyard. Once it was running, it would go round happily without any adjustment of the controller. This is I think the heavier of the two Boat Trains as I don't think I have taken the ballast weights of of the stock in this one. I did so for the down train. All the Boat Train stock is currently RTR, which has made the train a bit lighter than it was in Roy's day. It's still a good test, though, as it's an 11-carriage train.

The 1949 crimson and cream style on the streamlined stock was more high waisted than later repaints. I think the divide was moved down to line up better with Thompson and Mark 1 stock (the latter from 1951).

Your book is next to me right now. Just about to start reading it.

I think you mean the brake first twin and the brake third, later second, triplet from the Silver Jubilee set. There were only five carriages in the Fife Coast Express set. This is from 1955, when an additional carriage was inserted on Saturdays:

There are plenty more caption errors than the ones listed on his website, including some very basic ones such as on page 154: Upper photo caption: “…and the Tourist twin on the rear (BTO-TO)…”. There were no Tourist twin BTO-TO pairs. The image appears to show two (non-articulated) Tourist BTO vehicles at the rear of the train.

I'm inclined to agree. I think one of the authors in particular is agonising over it all at such great length that it might never appear. Part of the problem is that said author has quite possibly burned so many bridges that others who might have sufficient knowledge to assist won't be keen to help by reviewing things. At what point will Crécy simply pull the plug and direct the authors to another publisher or to self-publish?

Some more Mark 2 air-braked variety from the 1970s: This working is unidentified and is probably a portion of a longer train. 2xTSO 2c, TSO 2a, BFK 2a: 47_1C94_SEP-74 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr This was at the time part of the Saturday working of the 'Master Cutler' set. Nine carriages - the rear is indistinct but the leading two are Mark 2b and 2c firsts and carriages five and six are Mark 2c TSOs. Per the carriage workings, the formation was FK, FO, RB, RMB, 4 TSO, BSO but it is evident from the photo that the two TSO added at the north end on Fridays and Saturdays are outside the brake. The Monday to Thursday formation had an additional FO, making an 8-car set including two catering cars: 47377_Derby_31-8-74_m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 11 in the formation for this Cheltenham Spa-Paddington service in 1973, formed FK 2b, FK 2a, FO (Mark 1, Diag 72), RB, BFK, 5 TSO (two 2b, three 2a) BG: 1949_WhiteWaltham_0805-Chelt-Pad_31-1-73 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr This set in 1970 has been strengthened to 13 carriages and is a mix of Mark 2a and 2b, with Mark 1 BG, RB and FO: D1927_Denchworth_1970 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr This is the Manchester Victoria portion of a Liverpool/Manchester-Glasgow service in the early 1970s. The Liverpool portion comprising BFK, 3 TSO, would have been added to the front at Preston. The whole set returned south as a Glasgow-Euston service. This portion comprises Mark 2c stock with a Mark 1 RKB and BG, formed 3 TSO, RKB, FO, 2 FK, BG: 428_Salford by Robert Carroll, on Flickr A 'Deltic and Eight' comprising BFK 2a, 2 FO, RU, RMB, 3 TSO 2a: 55_1A21 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr And, for a bit of variety, a 'textbook' 10-car WR air-con Mark 2e set: 1937_WhiteWaltham_0807-WSM-Pad_31-1-73 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr And, remaining with the air-con stock, a Deltic and Eight: 55012_Darlington_1700-Newc-KX_c1974 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

A couple of mid-1790s WR formations: I suspect this train should have an RMB but it is missing. Formation is TSO 2a, FK 2a, BSO 2c, TSO 2a, TSO 2b, TSO 2b. 1049_Taplow_6-1-76 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr This rather longer set has at least one 2a towards the rear but after the BSO 2c at the front, the next five Mark 2 carriages are all 2b: 1029_Waltham_1Z55_1974 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Not all Mark 2 air-braked trains were 10 or more carriages in the 1970s. There are plenty of examples of shorter 8 or 9 car sets, such as some Midland Main Line services and the 'Deltic and 8' sets. Neither of those had a BG. On the WR, there were 9-car sets, some without a BG, on West of England services. There were also a few portioned workings, such as Hull portions and Penzance portions of London trains. The location and working for this image from 1975 are unidentified but the set looks like one of the 9-car Cornish Riviera/Golden Hind sets: 45012_5-2-75 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

I believe one or two Class 22s went from green with no yellow panel to blue but don't have any proof. The Southern was late and slow in applying yellow panels and there were Class 33s without them in 1967 and a few into 1968. D6583_Merstham_4-5-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr D6544_Wimbledon_26-5-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr D6564_SotonC_8-3-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr And a Class 71: E5002_GoldenArrow_nrTwitton_27-4-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Photo is dated 22/4/57. Crimson and cream was around into the 1960s.

I should look at my own photo collection. This one is crimson and cream and does not have valances. The number is not visible but it confirms that crimson and cream was carried by at least one (and quite possibly more) of those without the valances. 55217_ThorntonJct_22-4-57 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Not in the early 1980s on the Western Region.

Indeed, a rough guide is all that it can realistically be.

What I don't like about this system is that it can easily be read as a series of compartments. These eras overlapped. Some of the dates are misleading too as most TOPS renumbering took place in 1974 although a few TOPS numbers appeared prior to that, mainly on electric locos, and from 1973 on Class 45 Peaks as they were overhauled and 50 were fitted with electric train heating. It also does not differentiate between pre- and post-abolition of headcode displays (1 January 1976 if I recall correctly) nor between pre- and post-yellow first class bands (on some SR EMUs from 1960, more generally from c1962) or the appearance of yellow panels on green diesels (c1962). Blue diesels in general changed from two emblems to one on each side from 1969 and D prefixes were dropped from late 1968. So, you could split things up further if you were really keen. Even setting aside XP64, blue/grey livery appeared in 1965 on new Mark 2 stock and Mark 1 stock repainted to run with it for the forthcoming completion of the Euston-Liverpool/Manchester electrification. Class 86s were outshopped that year in rail blue, contrary to some reports that they were electric blue. Spot the colour difference: E3107 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Something I have not managed to work out is which Thompson BGs carried crimson and cream and which were plain (or lined) crimson. Those with the valances to match the pressure-ventilated stock carried crimson and cream but not sure about others. There may have been examples. Some were built new during the time that lined crimson was the livery for non-passenger and non-gangwayed stock and there are photos of Thompson BGs clearly in that livery. Lining was discontinued around 1951. Later, lots of vans carried plain maroon post 1956. So, there are three more liveries for Bachmann to do. I agree with others that some Thompson catering cars would be a good addition to the range. I would go for a restaurant first and open third/second. The first batch of RFs carried mock teak when new, although built post-nationalisation and with BR Gill Sans lettering.

No, it will be a completely new model, just like the other recent Bachmann Thompson stock.