coline33

Reading Steve Banks's blog on modelling his ex-GCR six-wheeled brake van, he comments that if he was to make a further one it would have the three vertical lines of bolt heads on each of the van's sides. Certainly in the views of this type of van on the W&U these bolt heads are clearly visible.

Yes, Simon, it looks just like it!!! Thanks for drawing our attention to it. The ex-CLC version also looks similar. Colin.

Steve, just the sort of response I have been dreaming of!!! Please confirm your father's name as I have identified two other members who took photos on those trips. The CURC have just responded to my request to investigate their records for that time but it would not be until the Christmas vacation that there could be someone to delve for us. In respect of his photo are you able to distinguish which loco please? So the brake van was definitely a six-wheeler in the photo. Now I have a number for it I see whether it was ex-GCR or ex-CLC as both companies use the same style. I am pleased that you now have the actual date for these. I wonder if your father went on their 1952 tour, please? Kind regards, Colin.

Chris, thanks for posting this view. I assume the coaches are painted in BR crimson to suit the livery of the loco. I note that both carriages have been numbered. Whilst the bogie coaches survived to receive BR numbers what number did you give the four wheeler, please? Kind regards, Colin Withey.

Whilst we await the arrival of the J70s can anyone please help me with the official passenger operations on W&U in BR days? From all the W&U books and Six Bells Junction I find the following railtours and rolling stock used. The first was steam hauled and the remainder diesel. 7.6.1950 Cambridge University Railway Club (CURC) had 2 brake vans attached to a scheduled freight hauled by a J70. One van was an ex-GER 20t. of diagram LA.54. The other appears to be of an ex-GCR six wheeler. The loco number is unknown. 4.6.1952 CURC again with 2 brake vans attached to a scheduled freight hauled by 11102. One van appears to be a Toad B or E but the other is similar but with a right hand positioned ducket! 9.7.1955 The Railway Club's "W&U Special" was a special working of 3 brake vans hauled by 11101. The train in order of coupling was M731002 (LMS diag.1036), B952454 (BR diag.1/506) and E260925 (LNER diag.158). 9.9.1956 Railway Correspondence and Touring Society (RCTS) "The Fensman" was a special working of 2 brake vans topping and tailing some 15 open wagons (of various types) hauled by 11102. The brake vans appear to be of the LNER 158 and/or BR 1/506 diagrams. There are photos of the CURS and RCTS tours on <www.kingslynn-forums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1103&start=15>. Firstly,have I covered all the W&U railtours? All the hauled stock mentioned appear to be fitted - am I correct? Which J70 was used on the first CURC tour together with any more detail and fleet numbers of the brake vans? On the second trip, what brake van would have looked like a Toad B or E but have a right hand ducket, and what were the fleet numbers of these two? Regarding the RCTS tour, what were the fleet numbers of the brake vans and if by any good fortune anyone had taken the numbers of the wagons as well then it would be fantastic bonus? I do believe in miracles!!!

Yes, Phil, please find us a Mayor of London with bags of money!!! Northern Line yes provided it goes via St.Helier. Now the Victoria Line was a product of the Abercombie plan for London after WW2 and is a mix of routes C and D. One these was to Croydon following the line of the 16/18 tram from Brixton. I recall that it was not progressed underground due to problems with underground water 'ponds' around Pollards Hill and undermining buildings at Thornton Heath Pond especially as the northern end of the station was under the State cinema now Granada. When the Victoria Line finally reached Brixton there was talk of taking it overground via the existing SR tracks into West and/or East Croydon. Personally I would have thought it better to extend it to Crystal Palace via West Norwood and reduce the bus services on the surface. These scenarios were part of the discussions I had with Peter Parker whilst he was BR Chairman Designate in 1979 but as with the then proposed Croydon tram system, the existence of a £400m. BR deficit delaying the development of the second generation of DMUs, like now there was and still is no money with only further shortfall in immediate prospect for TfL.

Yes, I do not disagree with the present Sutton station scenario. The Overground ought to take over the Epsom Downs branch but remember it does cross the border into Surrey CC area. In the revised 1968 scheme for the Croydon trams there was a service from New Addington estate to Tattenham Corner station via East & West Croydon (junction with the Wimbledon service), Sutton and Epsom Downs. Chris Green took this as the base for his study into converting certain SR commuter services to tram which was published in April 1987. It showed that it would attract a much greater ridership but not producing the revenue level to meet the costs. When these proposals were cut back to just concentrate on the Wimbledon service, the cross Croydon section could no longer use railway land so the way through the streets had to be found. The Wimbledon - Sutton line should remain Thameslink but the key to improving serving Rose Hill and the St.Helier Estate is the Sutton Tramlink as outlined in the public consultations. Yes, South Wimbledon is not the best interchange but does give one exercise!!! Certainly Morden Road stop would see greater use as it becomes a change point with Croydon Tramlink. At the Sutton end it would not affect the platforms at the station unless the decision is taken to continue it to Belmont. Personally, if it were to go to Belmont then being tram why not extend it to Tattenham Corner station with a Racecourse stop in between. In many ways it was a pity for the LCC St.Helier estate that the 1928 LCC reserved track tramway was dropped in favour of the Underground and Southern extensions. If all three had been done then the present issues would not have been so great. I only hope that by the time Sutton Tramlink comes about that the Chinese development of hydrogen powered articulated trams would have proved their worth in Foshan and be adopted universally to cut light rail/tram construction costs by a third. Having a depot with the hydrogen plant en route to Sutton would also boast the conversion of local Croydon & Sutton buses. Certainly the present plans would refreshv (environmentally and commercially) Sutton town centre - assuming 'The High Street' still exists by then!!!

Another thought, Tom, with these non-description cheapo van bodies is to file the sides and possibly the ends too, make a correct overlay for a prototype you want and choose the chassis accordingly. Colin.

Tom, why file the door surrounds flatter into the bodywork, paint it white and letter it like PLA 1144 above or the unknown number one lower down? It will go well with your PLA wagons and give a change of colour. Colin.

Tom, I trust you are putting in a scissors crossover in your Yard? Like the pair of them that can be seen in the G&K sheds 1911 view in my post yesterday. Each set of tracks went either side of the centrally placed building being the Dock Manager's Office in which I spent the whole of the 1970s! In the attached 1950s view in the opposite direction from the upper level foot-way, the scissors still remained. Now that is a challenge for you! Colin.

I cannot recall if an aspect of the PLA version has been mentioned, but has anyone manufactured a replacement set of end handrails to the design with the headlight found on the PLA, GKN, etc. versions?

Now for a bit of caption fun. This is Tilbury docks February, 1957, when the PLA engineers were relaying the foreground track to Nos.2 and 3 Berths. "No, you're not off-loading these trucks off the Lowmacs till we are ready. To make sure we've parked the Dock Manager's car on the ramp!" I do recall a number of pranks played by the engineering staff in my 1970s days at Tilbury and this caption may not be far off!

Tom, on another thread I came across your interest in 'pre-grouping' wagons. Thus I thought of you with the attached views of Tilbury Docks 1910/1911!!! The PLA grouping had just commenced. In 'trackwork 3' you will see that Tilbury was even handling container trains then. Yes, that is a container export bound on a flat. In those days the shippers referred to a container as a 'shipping box'. Colin.

Back home so have gone through my PLA packet to see if I can find any more on that red colour! Only reasonable one is attached so hope it helps.

I see that I accidentally included a view of a Victorian built flat at Millwall being '(2)'. This is not one for Tom to try unless he wants to be a 'scratcher'! PLA inherited the Millwall Dock Co. flats which were low height on inside framed wheels and dumb buffers. Many of these survived to the very end of I&M rail.

Now for some flat and van pictures taken by PLA staff. The brake van 1005 is of the Toad B type. Now get bashing!!!

Tom, the wagons look great. Appreciate the van was a guess but put a one in front of the number as after the brake van numbering at 1006 came the covered vans through to the 2000s including those used by the engineers. When are you going to start on kits and kit-bashing? It looks as though you have a LMS 4F so attached is your entry into passenger trains!!! All the best, Colin.

Tony, no there is not an equivalent on the Kent side. The reason is that the PLA Act 1908 gave PLA jurisdiction of the waterway and foreshore up to mean high water mark. However, Queen Victoria, bless her, gave the County Borough of Southend these rights over the foreshore in its area beforehand. Grandfather rights and all that. It meant that when I was doing the PLA accommodations work in the 1960's I could not make an an annual charge for Southend Pier sticking out into the fairway!!! That definitely saved Southend thousands if not millions!!! In my day the PLA Police were highly regarded by the Essex Constabulary as providing the best watchers for their joint operations.

Tom you could have repainted the Triang brake van into PLA livery and numbered it 1006! By the way I have found 4mm. resin cast mooring bollards by scalemodelscenery stated as having PLA stamped on them. Colin.

Tony, even in my 1960's days in the PLA River Department the limits went way out in the Estuary beyond Sea Reach No.1 buoy to the North Sea and took over the Admiralty's former responsibilities covering entry to the Orwell as well as the Medway. Today's PLA is in charge of all Thames pilotage from Trinity House - PLA pilots board at Dover. The marker at Chalkwell was the foreshore boundary, PLA to west and County Borough of Southend to the east.

If you are a receiver of the T&LRS magazine "Tramfare" then you will see listed the exhibitions around the British Isles that have tramway layouts.

I agree with your thoughts on Golant having stayed at the Cormorant Hotel there when thinking thorough whether to use the location for modelling the china clay trains plus the Fowey passenger. With the Seaton branch layout I had viewed the line from the front being Seaton to the right and Colyford to the left where the line turned 180 degrees to a fiddle yard hidden behind the river background. By the way, being awakened at 0600 by first the headlight beam and then by the growl of a class 66 followed by CDA after CDA passing through Golant was better then an alarm clock!!!

No, if I had gone ahead some four decades ago on modelling the branch, the Axe and those hills and village would have been the background. It was the view I used to see from the through carriages between Waterloo and Seaton in those glorious years of holidaying at Beer in 1946 and scout camps at Colyford in the early 1950s. Alas I found at Eastbourne that I was too tall to snake up the stairs to the open upper deck or sit comfortably inside the Seaton trams! I doubt that they would provide me with a step ladder to climb over the upper waist panels!!! Years ago I regularly visited one of the drivers at Seaton and on enquiring about having a drive, he recommended otherwise as he was so sure I would quickly get cramp perched on the platform!!!

A good choice for modellers of the original Seaton branch. So is this the prelude to Peco introducing narrow gauge model trams now £3m.has been spent on the new tram terminus at Seaton!!!