Long John Silver

Just a reminder that the Lydney Show is on next weekend with over 20 layouts plus demos and traders, refreshments available and plenty of parking. The price has been held for another year as well. We hope to see you there.

The Lydney Model Railway Show will be held this weekend, Saturday 24th and Sunday 25th September. The show was cancelled in 2020 and a smaller limited show was put on last year, but this year we’re almost back to a full-size show and the Forest of Dean Model Railway Club look forward to welcoming you. Venue – The Dean Academy, Church Rd, Lydney, Gloucestershire GL15 5DZ Opening times: Saturday 11am to 5pm Sunday 10am to 4pm Admission Adults £5, Under 16s £2 There will be about 20 layouts including: Arun Quay (0) Andeer Line (Hoe) Bicsdale (OO) Burford (TT) Blenheim Rd (OO) Crossley Scrap (OO) Snake Bend (N) Hilton (MOD) (OO) Marshleigh Wagon Repair Depot (OO) Minerstone (OO9) Alkerton Rd (OO) Trade Support includes Hereford Model Centre, Squires and Penduke Models. There will also be demonstration stands The whole exhibition is wheelchair accessible. Refreshments are available and there is ample free parking.

About 30 years ago when I was doing a presentation skills course at the Civil Service College, I had to prepare and give an initial presentation, five minutes long, on any subject of my choice. My subject was why Railway Modellers are Great at Parties. I used two vu – foils (remember them?) – one listing the usual prejudices and a second busting all the mythology and particularly concentrating on the range of skills and interests that railway modellers have - artistic, practical etc. Not to be taken too seriously but it got a bunch of nervous students buzzing. They all agreed that I’d made my case. I’ve never cared too hoots what people think about my hobbies - mind you I’m over six foot and can apparently do a good line in “hard stares”. I play in a rock band and have played live off and on since the mid - 1970s. At a gig just before lock down I had to take the lead vocal on a song for the very first time. When introduced the number I made two confessions to the audience, one that I hadn’t sung solo since I was eleven years old and two that I was a railway enthusiast - that actually got a cheer. The song? – Long Train Running by the Doobie Brothers. What does seem to be happening is that the younger enthusiasts do not seem to want to hide their interest in all things railways as much as they did ten or so years ago. That has to be good thing.

Hi SD85, following up Dan's post earlier. I ran the show from 2013 to 2017, and have attended most of them from 1996 onwards. The FOD MRC took over the running of the show in 2002, so we only have records going back that far. We started producing programmes in 2013 so there isn't much to go on. I'll ask around some of the longer serving club members to see if they remember anything. I think I was at the show that year, but I don't recall the layout, so I'm afraid I'm not much help. We have at least one member who models in 7mm and may know who built the layout. My wife took some photos at one Lydney show in the late 90s - it may have been 1997 - if I can find the photos, and that may take a while, there might be something there. If I can find any clues I'll let you know. Jon

I travelled back once on the 03:50, returning from university one Saturday morning in 1977. It was a single coach, standing room only, and many of the passengers were military personnel returning to the Medway Towns. It was often referred to as "the Milk Train" in Sittingbourne at the time.

The Charing Cross trains were hourly off peak, I remember them well, even from Sittingbourne they were about 25 minutes slower to London than the Victoria trains and were usually HAP units. I'm not sure when they were taken off - mid 70s I think. They provided the slow service from Thanet. The Victoria fast trains sometimes split at Gillingham, sometimes at Faversham depending on year. For a while they split at Gillingham and both portions stopped at Sittingbourne just a few minutes apart. In the early 70s the Dover line had a slow from Victoria which ran as a combined train to Maidstone East as far as Swanley, and then divided. By the time I came back to the area in the late 70s after university, services had changed. By the mid 80s there were fast and slow trains each hour on the Thanet and Dover routes from Victoria with cross platform connections at Faversham, but I'm not sure exactly when this happened. The service was more logical, but less interesting I think.

Hello , As an ex Kent lad I’ve been following this with interest and I hope you won’t mind a couple of suggestions, in addition to the excellent contributions so far. I was brought up in Sittingbourne in the late 60s and early 70s and commuted from Sittingbourne from 1978 – 1983 and Chatham from 1983 -96. I’m just old enough to remember steam at Sittingbourne, I was three years old when the electrification came. The Kent Coast Cannon Street commuter trains used the old Chatham mainline until Chislehurst Junction and then joined the South Eastern Main Line through Hither Green. There was a service every 20 minutes from Ramsgate in the morning peak and to Ramsgate in the evening. One morning service started at Margate. Two possible suggestions for you. 1. Assume that one of the Thanet trains starts from Reculver. 2. There was a solitary Dover to Cannon St via Chatham train in the late 70s/early 80s. You could add a Reculver portion to this at Faversham. Stops for either option – Herne Bay, Whitstable, Faversham, Sittingbourne, Gillingham, Chatham, Cannon Street. If you wanted an electric service on the SE line here’s a suggestion. There was a Victoria to Margate service via Maidstone East, Ashford and Canterbury West. It was advertised as far as Minster from Victoria and I think from Margate it was advertised as far as Maidstone East. It was usually a single CEP or VEP unit. Why not add a an additional set for Reculver. The rationale being that it provides a connection to Ashford and Maidstone. The Minster service called at Bromley South, Borough Green, Maidstone East and then all stations. I do like your layout concept and wish you well with it.

If Tony doesn't mind a bit of GWR interloping I'll post updates as it progresses. I might actually get on with it then. I have one I built back in 1990 from the NuCast reissue of the old Cotswold kit. It runs well but has never to my mind quite captured the low look of the small wheeled panniers. Not the fault of the kit , more my inexperience, but the body sits a little high and there is something wrong around the cab area to my eyes. Hopefully I'll make a better job of this one.

That's true for me as well, hence the modifications. I tried various methods of springing the radial axle but once I'd run of ideas, and patience to be honest, I changed tack and used a spare Comet truck and cut away a fair bit of the rear framing. It now runs perfectly. I much prefer the radial truck set up that Perseverance used on their 56xx 0-6-2T chassis, which was effective but could be put together by someone like me with ten thumbs. That said, I enjoyed building the kit and it went together well, and was pleased to give Dave Ellis the business. Next on the workbench is a 2021 class pannier - how appropriate is that for the coming new year. Jon

Good afternoon all, Firstly Tony, thanks for hosting this fascinating and informative thread for another year, it’s been a pleasure to attempt to keep up with it. There has been so much interesting content, but for me the highlights were the photos of Little Bytham that illustrated the operating sequence, I am always keen to know how model railways are operated, and on a practical level the discussions about gearboxes were very useful. I’ve tended to use Comet boxes, but have some smaller GWR prototypes to build and found the views of the different boxes. Plenty of food for thought. If I have one major achievement this year it is that I finally managed to successfully solder white metal after 35 years of trying and then giving up and using epoxy. I’ve been happily soldering nickel silver and brass for years, but I’m ashamed to say the only significant part that’s ever fallen of one of my kit builds was the result of a dodgy low melt solder joint. I was encouraged to have another go by the attempts of some of the younger contributors to this thread (Jesse and Jamie I think) shaming me into action. I have to say I enjoyed building the kit this way. The result is a GWR Large Prairie from A SE Finecast Kit. The chassis has been modified to take a pivoting pony truck (Comet) at the rear. Apologies for the poor quality of the photo it is from a camera phone. Very much a layout loco and it runs very smoothly and will pull anything I can put behind it. This loco was built to try to keep my hand in at kit building, I know there has been a wonderful large prairie model produced by Hornby, but I’d made up my mind to have a go at this kit and went ahead regardless. I have taken delivery of a Dapol GWR Mogul though and very nice it is too. Following on from this I dug out an old white metal K’s autocoach kit I was given a few years back. This has now been soldered up and awaits a floor and interior detailing. This may take a while as making coach interiors is a bit of a pet hate of mine. The rest of my modelling time has been spent fine tuning my layout. Scenery has been refreshed where needed, and as an operator I needed to organise better stock storage for goods and passenger stock when not on the layout, and that has been done. I used static grass for the first time, re-laid an replaced some dodgy trackwork and tidied up some of the layout wiring. Mundane jobs, but they needed to be done. Tony, I wish you, Mo, and all the contributors to Wright Writes all the very best for Christmas and hears hoping for a better 2021. Jon

Hello Carlwebus, The Newry to Warrenpoint section was the Newry, Warrenpoint and Rostrevor Railway, the Goraghwood to Newry section was part of the Newry and Enniskillen Railway, later the Newry and Armagh. The two lines existed separately until a link line was built between the two Newry stations. Both railways were absorbed into the GNR, but not at the same time. I’m not an expert on the GNR(I) and I’m sure that others that are could fill in the details. All information has been gleaned from Edward Patterson’s book on the GNR(I). The current station on the Belfast – Dublin line replaces the old Bessbrook station that was the mainline station for Newry. Most of the surviving GNR(I) locos went for scrap in 1965, the closure of the Warrenpoint line and the Derry Road, from Portadown meant that there was little need for steam, and the few non-dieselised services were worked by ex NCC 2-6-4T. Assuming the train is the same as the one in the photo in Norman Johnston’s book, it is a through train to Belfast from Warrenpoint; there were a number of daily through trains on the branch. I hope this info is of interest, I’m no expert on Irish railways, but I do find them fascinating, particularly the GNR(I).

Photo 18 has been bugging me since you posted it, I'm sure I'd seen it before. I've been looking in some of my reference books and found a near identical shot on page 181 of Norman Johnston's book on GNR(I) locomotives. The loco is definitely a "U" 4-4-0 renumbered 66 by the UTA, and the photo was taken on the Warrenpoint branch and was dated July 1963. I'm as sure as I can be it's the same train. Stay safe Jon

Number 18 looks like a Great Northern Railway (ireland) U class 4-4-0 to me, possibly on the Warrenpoint branch.

Ultimately it doesn’t matter what you run so long as you enjoy your hobby. Most of us though I’m sure would aspire to Peter Kazmierczak’s criteria for a believable scenario. My own train set, is a “might have been” based on Brecon. It assumes that the LNWR reached the town from Llandovery, using running powers on the Neath and Brecon line into the town and the GWR arrived from Abergavenny using running powers on the Brecon and Merthyr and Cambrian for the final leg into Brecon. The Abergavenny route is assumed to be double track throughout and the Llandovery line doubled to Sennybridge. I wanted to recreate something of the atmosphere of the Central Wales line and the West to North line through the Welsh Marches and I’ve long been fascinated by the Railways around Brecon. I chose 1947 as time period because there were a few older locos still running that had been going because of WW2. The line is operated to a strict timetable. I try to keep the locos and stock to the ordinary, and those loco types that were operating in the area. I do have a few oddballs though, an Ivatt 2MT mogul – common in the 1950s around Brecon but not in 1947. It is numbered for one of a pair based at Swansea Paxton St so I assume it’s being trialled against the ex-Midland and LYR 0-6-0s on the Hereford line. I also have Dukedog which appears off the Mid Wales Line on an unlikely through train from Aberystwyth, I assume the line was upgraded during WW2. I have a Midland 1P 0-4-4T I built a few years ago as a nod to those locos that used to work from Swansea St Thomas to Hereford, it’s the wrong class of tank and there were none anywhere near Brecon by 1947. The one complete rule 1 loco I have is an ex LNWR Prince of Wales 4-6-0 which again I built a few years ago. Totally wrong for the area, but the loco is one that was still in service that year. I probably get more work out of some of the old stagers like my Bulldog and Aberdare than would really have happened, and I suspect even the weathered locos are too clean. I’ve tried not to make the coach rakes too tidy and have the right type of accommodation on the trains. Most of the time though the station is populated with Panniers, Small Prairies, Dean Goods, $3xx Moguls, Halls, Black 5s, Fowler Tanks, Super Ds and Coal tanks. As in real life though an occasional surprise turns up. One advantage of an imaginary station is that you make up the back story and can fit it to your requirements. It can also change over time and I suspect a lot of modelers add services to their layout to justify stock they’ve bought - I know I have.

What have I done now?

Although I model in OO, I did build a few compensated chassis, frames, underpinnings, whatever people want to call them in the mid 90s. They were all Perseverance and went under r-t-r bodies. Two were simple 0-6-0s which were not too difficult another was an outside cylinder 2-6-2 which was "a little more challenging." The third one only took one Saturday to get running. I still have the two 0-6-0s, a grossly over engineered Hornby Jinty and a a Mainline Dean Goods. The only advantage I found for compensation on OO track was haulage capacity. I rebuilt a second Dean Goods with a non compensated Perseverance chassis for comparison and it was far less powerful than the compensated one - until they were both weighted. Then the difference was negligible. A couple of years later I built a South Eastern Finecast Pannier with rigid frames which ran more smoothly then any of the compensated locos and i haven't used compensation since. Overall I found installing compensation a little more complicated, it gave marginally better haulage power but no other real advantage. I should say too that I always found the Perseverance chassis kits well thought out, apart from their 4 piece GWR Crosshead arrangement, and their instructions plus, Ian Rice's Chassis Building Book made life relatively straightforward. So I largely agree with Tony as far as compensation in OO is concerned, but P4 is certainly a different kettle of fish altogether, not that I possess the skills or temperament to model to such fine standards. I would like to wish Tony and all the contributors to this thread all best wishes for Christmas and the New Year. The thread is always interesting, and informative. I'm unable to provide photos at the moment, but thanks to inspiration from this thread, I also seem to have managed to solder whitemetal successfully and my Finecast Large Prairie is now taking shape - no sticky hands and dried up epoxy. Jon

Hello Clive, As you say there's nothing wrong with r-t-r, I use a lot myself using kits to fill the gaps. I enjoy building my own stuff, but am a demon operator so need more locos than I could ever build. I've slaved over a kit for months and produced a very mediocre result only to see Hornby or Bachmann produce said model. At least I can maintain and repair mine. It does seem strange that thanks to Heljan there are so many DP2s, Lions, Falcons and Kestrels about, enough to stock a nature reserve, but as long as people enjoy them, and the hobby, that's the bottom line. Jon

Hi Clive, I guess that in many fields, not just modelling, people will take inspiration from someone or something, and then take the idea in a slightly different direction. The old adage of not modelling a model is very true, but be inspired by the concept, and as Tony always says, observe the prototype. The MPD model is certainly a way of getting in to the hobby without too much outlay and who knows where people will go from there. Certainly anyone like you who scratch builds diesels and DMUs is out of step, but in a very good way, it takes real skill to produce a convincing diesel model from scratch, more power to your elbow. Of course it means that for Sheffield Exchange you can produce what might have actually worked there rather than just what the r-t-r trade provides. ATB Jon

Where those "out of step" lead, the mainstream often follow. As ever, wise words from both of you. Jon

Belated "Happy Birthday" to you Tony. Some very wise thoughts from you, Doug N and Clem on making progress rather than procrastinating. I agree with Clem that retirement seems to change things a bit, I've actually found it more difficult to reserve time for modelling since I retired. This year like DougN I've tried to finish projects, I've not been as successful but there has been progress, a batch of wagons 5 years in the making are nearly complete and my first loco kit in 10 years is progressing; the chassis is now working. I've also sorted out a lot of minor, but irritating faults in both may layouts. Momentum is building. ATB Jon

I don't disagree with you, the point I was making, perhaps not very well, was that even a rundown railway that was a shadow of its' former self could be inspiring to a youngster and lead to a lifelong interest in railways. I wish I'd known it in better times but I'm glad I knew it. The WCML wasn't at its' best in the early 60s either. ATB Jon

Morning Andrew me hearty, you're absolutely right in modelling terms. Interesting to hear about the original Leicester South proposal, I think Black 5s and Scots looked better on the WCML, and the GC was much more interesting before the LMR took it over. LSGC is a wonderfully evocative model of better and more interesting times. Still I think those formative years are important to remember. I think if I was 10 years older my modelling interests might well have focused on the GC. I still like Black Fives though and in the spirit of Tony's thread I attach a photo, not great I'm afraid of one of mine, a DJH kitbuild that was my "millenium project".It has a Mashima 1624 motor and Comet gearbox and is intended to represent one of the Swansea Paxton Street allocation. I'm sure it has a few errors, Black 5s are a minefield, but it runs well. ATB Jon (no parrot, just tall and white haired)

I would have loved to have seen the London Extension in better times, my family moved next to it just 2 months before the expresses were taken off. It was a sadly run down railway in the early 60's, but to be positive, living right by it really encouraged my interest in all things railway. Jon

A Black 5 and Mark 1 coaches is appropriate for the GCR, a "real train" in preservation. It reminds me of the Marylebone - Nottingham semi-fasts in the early '60s that used to pass at the end of our garden when I was but a lad. Not the Great Central line's finest hour, and the locos were filthy, but I find the photo, whatever effects have been applied, very nostalgic. Thanks for posting. Jon

Lydney Show is only a week away now, and with Little Dan busy with the preparations I'll add the list of layouts:- Barnstaple Junction 00 Oxford Road 00 Marshend 00 Bradford 00 Sutherland Street N Frampton P4 Sandford Rd Junction N Snake Bend N Newtown N Cog Road 0 Angel Creek On30 Cwmbach 009 End of the Line 009 Tony's Forest 009 Leigh Valley SM32 Borth, Aberdovey and Ynyslas 1:12 scale Groaning Goods G Brynllwd 0n30 Southdown Bus Garage 1:76 Diecast Funfair 1:76 2 stands of model commercial vehicles Model Bus Federation The above is correct as at earlier this week. Why not come along next weekend, you'll get a friendly welcome, there's good grub and plenty of free parking and the show is wheelchair accessible. Jon