84f

Thank you, John, that is helpful. Cheers. Robin

Thank you for your suggestions, Mike, I have been trying to work the extra crossing in with limited success, so I do like your suggestion of imagining that off scene and following the pre 1935 signal diagram. Trap points sound right, I will think further about the gas works traffic. Cheers Robin

Woops, I should know better......

Thanks all for your replies. My conclusion from the discussion, is to realign the incline, ormove the position of the crossover so it is all on the same incline plane. Instinctively, it seems to be asking for problems to position the crossover over the transition. By which I mean the part of the incline where the gradient changes gradually from 1 in 70 to level. Thinking about the geometry of the blades in this scenario would be asking for trouble. For info, gauge standard is OO-SF, with a radius range of 36 to 50 inches over the cross over, up to 8 coupled RTR and compensated kit built. The cross over is for passenger traffic from the station. Thanks Robin.

I need to add a crossover into my new layout plan. It will be on a 44 inch curve which means a D12 to ensure a minimum 36 inch radius. That would be ok, but it is also on an incline of 1 in 70, and over the start of the transition towards level. There is no super elevation as it close to the the station throat, but I am concerned that I may have problems building it and getting trains to run across smoothly and pick up reliably. Am I right to be worried? Thanks Robin

Hello Moderators. I fear that I posted this in the wrong section, could you please move it to Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure Thank you very much Robin

Signalling Swinford After around 4 years of faffing around and a couple of false starts, I am now pretty close to a final plan for my new layout. I would really appreciate some advice on how to signal it properly before I start on the build. But first the backstory. Swinford is based on the GWR Stourbridge Town branch and the goods only continuation down to the Stourbridge Basin goods station at Amblecote. The town station was (and still is) at the end of a short branch from Stourbridge Junction Station on the Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway (OWWR absorbed into the GWR network shortly after opening). The branch from Stourbridge Junction to Stourbridge Town still exists and at 0.8 miles long is the shortest branch line in the UK. A freight only line continued down a 1 in 27 embankment to the canal basin at the end of the Stourbridge branch off the Staffs and Worcester Canal and closed in the mid 1960's. The canal side industry served by an extension from the GWR goods station included the Stourbridge Rolling Mills, Stourbridge Foundry and the Firebrick works of Harts and Pearson. There were a number of adjacent glass works, but as far as I can ascertain none of these was served by the railway. The branch was built as double track as far as Stourbridge Town, but from 1935 it was operated as two parallel single track lines, one for goods and one for the passenger trains. My model will be called Swinford as it the differs too much from the prototype. It will be set around 1950 and built to 4mm OO-SF standards and will be permanent. · The goods station will be modelled in an abbreviated form due to space constraints. · A smaller fictional interchange shed will be included on the canal. · An entirely imaginary feeder from the Earl of Dudley’s Pensnett Railway will be included. · From 1935 the Town signal box was closed and the line was operated as two lines on a one engine in steam basis. My model will retain the signal box as I want to be able to occasionally use the run around at the station and there will also be a signal box to control the interchange with the Pensnett Railway. I have taken a stab at the signalling as set out in the signal box diagram below (and after inspecting the pre-1935 signalling diagram), but I am unsure about a number of things 1. Will I be able to retain the double single line working with the signalling as shown - will any ground discs be required? 2. I could revert to a conventional double track working but would need to add an additional crossover – and that will be tricky as it would need to be on a curve and incline. So I would rather not do that. 3. I have proposed a signal in the yard to control traffic from the Pensnett Railway to the exchange siding. I assume a trap point would also be required, but not sure where? The yard shunter would be propelling wagons to the gas works up this line as well. 4, Are any other signals required? I anticipate there would be two shunting engines in steam at anyone time, plus the train engines. I have this idea that a goods train will arrive in the yard, the engine will uncouple and return light engine up the branch to be serviced at the engine sheds. 5. Are any other trap points required? Apologies for the long ramble, but I think context is important to understanding. I hope it is clear what I am trying to achieve. The diagram represents the scenic sections. There will be two fiddle yard and a non scenic link section between the town and the goods station. All suggestions and criticisms will be gratefully received. I would rather revise the plan before I start building anything. Thank you very much Robin

I use the Proxxon 28630 250 tooth blade raised to the highest level so it gets a good bite. There is no splintering of the copper and after cutting 30 metres there is no noticeable wear. Blade is available on Amazon for £17.40. Mind you it might be a different story if cutting fr4 glass fibre boards, I am using fr2 standard SRBP paper based board. And they are cheap - those 30 meters used up 10 x 100mm * 160mm boards at about £12.50 total cost from Rapid. Still need to use PPE precautions to protect against dust etc. The Proxxon has a plastic plate inset in the table around the blade with a 4mm gap on the cutting side to allow for the blade to tilt for mitre cutting, a bit of an issue when cutting strips of 4mm or less. I made a replacement plate from aluminium with a 1mm gap which solves that one, albeit at the cost of not being able to fit the safety guard. I use a length of hardwood to hold down the work and the supplied Proxxon pusher, so keep my fingers well out of the way. I do use the standard fence, but it is not the best design as it is only attached to the front of the table. It is fiddly to get right, I use a set square to line it up and tighten down really firmly. And check it hasn't moved every 10 or so cuts. Once set up my results are are +/- 05 mm at each end - good enough for my eyes. Hope this helps, do let me know if you want any more details. I have just sent Michael Clark a cheque for a new batch of etchings so I hope he is still supply, otherwise I will need to find a plan B. Last lot I bought was in 2018, but they are still listed on the Masokits product catalogue currently available to download from the Scalefour website. I just checked that and it is dated 2017, so fingers crossed, will update further when I hear from Michael. Cheers Robin

Hello Gordon, wow I have just finished working through to the end from page 1 over a series of lockdown binge reading sessions! Your joinery and trackbuilding are a real inspiration and I intend to adopt many of your methods, so thank you for documenting. Especially pertinent as I have been refining my Templot plan ready to start ordering timber, etc. for my new layout which will be to 00-SF standards I have built PCB track to 00-SF and EM standards in the past and I intend to continue with that, as I much prefer soldered construction. I have made some test builds using Masokits etched chairs from Michael Clarke, although fiddly to fold up and build (read, therapeutic), I am very pleased with the appearance. As my layout will centre around a goods station I think the lack of chairs will be more noticeable than on a sweeping swathe of mainline. My only concern is that it is more difficult to tweak. Anwyay, I do have one question for you if I may. I was rather taken aback by the current price of pcb strip from the main suppliers which works at around £10 per yard of plain track. Although my layout will not be in the same league as ET, the expenditure will be significant, withe 20 turnouts iin the scenic section. So I have been experimenting with cutting the strip from 100 *150 mm board using a Proxxon FET table saw, and the results are now promising, after some initial failures and a modification to the table to stop the cut sleepers falling through. I am using the resin coated paper board, rather than glass fibre, but the dust and fumes still need some PPE. The cost is about 20% of the ready cut stuff. I did note that you seemed quite happy cutting your own at one time, but have gone back to buying strip from Marcway, so my question is, what was your rational for that? I am also considering experimenting with my band saw if I can work out the best blade for the purpose, I have a 14tpi blade, but I suspect 28 tpi maybe better. Cheers Robin

Hello Andrew - thanks for opening this post - it is interesting and focused - I can give my experience and the reasons that I have decided in recent weeks to move from EM to 00-SF. iLike many others I have recently returned to the hobby and I naturally picked up with EM where I had left off 35 or so years ago. I have spent the last 12 months or so getting up to speed with developments in the hobby and building a bit of track work on a test plank and getting a few locos converted or half converted to EM as only one is complete . I have now decided to move over to OO-SF - here is my rationale 1, My competence with chassis building / conversion is at best average - my efforts have had had limited success and very time consuming. 2, the cost of RTR loco conversion - wheels, chassis kit, motor can easily top £100 3, I want to focus my efforts on other things than chassis and loco building - I would like to get far enough advanced in a reasonable time to have an operating layout with a decent amount of stock to play trains with, so I can focus on the scenic and buildings. 4, My long term project is a BR WR based layout based in the Black Country around 1950 - I am filling around two thirds of a double garage and will need around 15 locos to provide a realistic cross section for the trafic I anticipate - most of the locos I want to run are available as pretty decent RTR and many as superb models that I could never hope to emulate. 5, On the visual front, I would never be happy with any of the RTR trackwork that I have seen such as Peco - it really jars on my eyes. I have so far built two 00-SF turnouts and they look very acceptable placed next to my EM efforts. I enjoy trackbuilding so 00-Sf seems the obvious choice for my needs allowing for the RTR wheels of modern models plus the finer guage wheels on my kit built wagons, etc. A couple of other points - minimum radius is constrained for me by buffer locking consideration - an eight coupled locos (Hornby 28xx) goes around my 34 inch min radius at 16.2 mm guage with no problems The popular view is to use C&L or SMP RTR at 16.5mm reducing the guage to 16.2 for the handbulit turn outs. As i am planning to handbuild all my trackwork I can see no reason to vary from 16.2mm (it may even give improved running on open trackwork - I don't know about that though) I hope this helps Robin