simon b

Wednesday at 07:46

1 hour ago, cnw6847 said:

A view of the length of the layout. Just the upper storage tracks to lay..

My brother has suggested scenicing the second board and add a third fiddle yard board. Possibly.

Looking good! I'm inclined to agree with your brother about adding a second scenic board, it's easier to do it now rather than rip it about later. But, I suggest before going any further with the scenic works on the existing boards, run some trains with what's all ready there. Make sure the layout works to your liking, incase you want to adjust siding lengths or add points ect.

If you do want to add a second board, this pic is all the inspiration you need:

-You could move the CT building back to ease the curve in their siding, and create a concrete yard area for their trucks to park up. -lots of interesting scenic work there.

-Cross the high level tracks over the low level tracks as in that pic, makes hiding the exit tracks alot easier.

-You can use some of the space to extend the fiddle yard if needed, points take up alot of space.

April 20

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

All blue is used for a FPL, also a clearance bar (if you can find any these days)

Blue over black is used where one lever combines the function of throwing the point and locking it - this woud be a power-worked point (point motors have point locking built-in) or an "economic FPL" (common MR mechanical practice, not much used elsewhere)

Blue over brown is the standard colour for a Release, a Bolt locking lever, a Direction lever or an Annets Key lever.

On the Banbury GF photo I can actually read the lever plate - it says "Release"

Lever 2 reads Down Relief Down Siding

As Jeremy says, there's no need for an FPL as it's only a trailijng connection on a Down Line.

The SB Diagram has a note that (GF)1 released by 10 lever in the box.

The horizontal bars secured to levers lock them such that you can't pull 3 without first pulling 2, which you can't pull until you pulled 1, although this is not shown on the lever pull plates.

So for a ground frame on the SR, am I correct in thinking I need two blue levers and one black?

Lever 1 blue over brown - Release

Lever 2 blue - Facing point lock

Lever 3 black - Throw point

April 20

1 hour ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

The platform points look to be operated from the box, and this ground frame works one end of the single slip (the end nearest the platform) and the far siding points.

It looks like it's electrically locked from the signalbox, with a backlock on lever 1 (GF release). One of the buttons on the left will be to lift the backlock once the the signaller has pulled the appropriate lever in the box. I expect the other button sounds a buzzer in the box, requesting the ground frame to be released.

Lever 1 is half blue, implying an FPL, but I can't see one, and it's not on the lead. Perhaps blue has another meaning I am not aware of.

Lever 3 is spare.

Thanks, I found a picture of the signal box diagram after a search. Would the third spare lever originally have been to throw the points marked as (3) on the diagram?

April 20

I had another look around and I think I've found a similar prototype for the track layout at Banbury station.

The down platform relief line had what appears to be an un-signaled trailing connection to a pair of sidings about half way along it's length, there was a 3 lever ground frame provided even though the signal box is only at the platform end. Am I correct in thinking thinking this would be worked in the same way 5BarVT describes a few post's ago? https://www.roscalen.com/signals/Banbury/South.htm

April 20

6 hours ago, DCB said:

The signalling problem comes from the illogical track layout. I would expect the milk dock point to be operated from the signal box, locked in the straight position when either starter or home signals are off. But I would not expect the station to have a milk dock. Milk was typically dealt with at passenger platforms, loaded and especially unloaded., off peak in London. It was a fairly quick operation, rolling churns around on their edges prior to going to tankers.
The dock would never have a "Train" enter, just a few wagons propelled in. "Dock" platforms are often higher than the 3ft passenger platform maximum to make loading vans easier.;

It's not really a problem, more of a puzzle that I needed the rules confirming before I play.

The milk dock as I call it is outside of the main station, it isnt connected to the station concourse at all. There is a milk bottling plant besides the station just like there used to be at Vauxhall, except I've given it a dedicated unloading siding as opposed to blocking a platform in the terminus. Some shunting is required to run around the train, and get the brake coach/van out of the way so the tanks can be propelled into the dock.

April 19

4 hours ago, Grovenor said:

The ground frame needs to be locked normal for any move entering the platform so that would be home signal or any shunt signal giving access. Once a train has arrived in the platform the shunter can be given the ground frame release and do the shunting.

No need to lock the platform starter as its not conflicting and may be needed in case the train needs to pass the signal before the tail end has cleared the siding.. The shunter will need to put the ground frame back to normal or any subsequent arrivals will be locked out.

If the points were operated from the signal box then it would be usual for the starter to lock the points in either position for route holding. But this doesn't work with a GF and its the shunter on the ground who has the responsibility for not moving the points under a train.

Thanks for the explanation on how such a layout would be operated, it helps me plan the shunting sequence to get everything where it needs to be.

Just so I understand things fully a train cannot arrive directly into the siding as the ground frame must be locked to clear the signal into the platform, but a train can depart from the siding directly as the platform starter is not interlocked with the groundframe.

It's certainly going to be an involving task when it comes time for the milk train arrival, as the full sequence involves a runaround move using the other two platforms before it gets to this one. The fun part will be trying to do it all between the local passenger traffic.

April 19

1 hour ago, RailWest said:

>>>>I'm guessing I'd need a "limit of shunt" board on the platform starter signal post too?...

No :-) The signal is your limit of shunt. LoS boards are for wrong-direction movements in locations where otherwise there would be no signal.

Thanks, I'm still learning about how some of these things are used!

April 19

Thanks for your input gentlemen, the closest example of such a situation I can find is Baker street on the Met railway. That had a very similar arrangement for the Chiltern court coal siding.

This isnt a busy terminus station, more urban backwater than Waterloo. So if we say a 3 lever ground frame with a release lever, a facing point lock lever, and then the points themselves, that should cover it? I'm guessing I'd need a "limit of shunt" board on the platform starter signal post too?

April 19

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

There would obviously have to be a trap.

Quite right, which leads me on to another question.

How many levers in the ground frame, 2 or 3? I assume a release lever of some sort, then a lever to throw the points, but would the trap point be on the same lever or separate?

April 19

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

A GF is the easiest way to implement it as it needs no other signalling (#): GF normal, operates as any other platform road; GF released, shunter in control of the platform.

# - slightly more tricky if the shunter needs to go out beyond the starting signal due to insufficient length between the point and signal.

Paul.

Thanks, that's what I thought the operation might be like. The idea I had for it was an 08 to trip 2 or 3 milk tanks into the dock and depart again light engine, so in theory it shouldn't need to shunt past the platform starter. However if it did need to go out past the starter would it require a shunt ahead signal below the platform starter, or be done by some other method?

1 hour ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Am I right in thinking that the ground frame would need to be interlocked with the platform starter?

Obviously the ground frame is interlocked with the home signal.

I would need to be able to use the platform starter to depart from the milk dock, as the rear of the train might not clear the points.

April 19

2 hours ago, RailWest said:

A quick sketch would help a lot to have a better understanding :-)

Why do you think it would be on a GF rather than worked from the SB?

Had a quick go in paint, it doesn't show the entire layout but just that platform road. I assumed a ground frame as it seems a similar situation to a loco release crossover between two platfrom roads, alot of those were hand worked even at larger stations.

The platform line is the outermost of three platform roads, which run into an overall roof. The milk dock line diverges just before the lines go under the roof, so the milk dock is outside the main building.

April 18

1 minute ago, Rivercider said:

I am no signalling expert, so won't comment on details, but it might be important to have more information.

Which railway built and operated the station, and when is it set as signalling arrangements might vary over time,

cheers

Good point, thanks.

Station was built by the LCDR and maybe the LBSCR, but its set in the late 1960's to early 1970's. Still using the steam era track and signals, but with blue diesels.

April 18

I should also say the only thing using the siding is milk tanker wagons, there would never be a loco "shut in" so to speak. There wouldn't be enough room to do that.

April 18

Hi all, I need a little help with signalling an unusual section of track layout please. I've got a terminus platform line that has a siding diverging to a milk dock about a third of the way along its length. This siding can only be accessed when there is no train standing on the platform line, and is probably going to be worked with a ground frame as opposed to the signal box.

In my mind as the milk siding joins the platform line well before the platform starter signals, and it isnt a running line, it doesn't need its own exit signal? The ground frame would still need to be unlocked by the signal box anyway, so that should be enough protection I would think?

April 16

Whilst looking for ideas on how to hide the fiddleyard entrance on the viaduct layout, I came across the ideal prototype in Brixton junction signal box. There are a few pics online of the outside of the building, but I can't quite figure out how the interior layout would be arranged. Presumably the wooden "balcony" was just a lookout for better sighting, and the lever frame would be at the back of the building? Or was the lookout a later addition and the lever frame was then in the middle of the box? Seems a very unusual design, and the only other example I can find was Loughborough junction. Anyone have some info on it?

April 11

13 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Unfortunately that link is for subscribers only.

On the subject of paint, does anyone have a suggestion for UK available rattle can (e.g. Tamiya or Humbrol) that is a decent match for Conrail blue please?

Not tried it, but I would think citadel paints "ultramarine blue" would be a match. Tamiya ts15 spray might also be close.

April 11

13 hours ago, cnw6847 said:

Thank you. I think a suggestion is all thats needed really.

Be interesting to see what its like when its all installed and sceniced.

Works better than a mirror I think, as you say a suggestion is all that it needs. A mirror would show too much detail and break the illusion, like the fact the two cars are driving away from each other. The mirror card blurs it into shadow so you can only see the shadow of the other car, not which direction it's pointing.

Besides the shimmer effect just looks like a hot day in the city...

April 7

Alot of modelers use automotive spray paint, if you want brush on paint Citadel do a great range.

March 26

Fenchurch street station. This has a road under it with a pub in the arches, then an office block on top.

March 21

15 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

Good luck on this project, something I thought of many years ago!

Thanks, depending on how this turns out I might have a bash at some others.

March 21

I'm using the chassis and motor bogies from the Hornby Brighton Belle for this conversion, they run well and the underframe equipment is a close match to the PUL driving motor cars going by the pictures I've seen. However they will need to be shortened by 12mm. If I've got my measurements correct the 5BEL motor coach was 66.5ft long or 266mm in 4mm scale, vs the 6PUL motor coach at 63.5ft or 254mm long in 4mm. Looking at the Hornby chassis I think the best place to make the cut is just after the air tanks, there is a gap in the underfloor detail here that doesn't seem to be present on the PUL units.

When I did a quick mock up with the parts taking 12mm length out of it would look correct visually, other than that it looks quite believable. I don't want to chop up the window section from the open coach other than changing the doors, so any discrepancies in length can be lost in the brake compartment.

Interestingly if I was doing the 2 prototype motor cars I could get away without shortening the chassis, they were a little longer so the difference would only be 3mm and not noticeable. The difference being 7 full side windows vs the 6.5 that I'm going for.

March 20

That's going to be fun to operate, plenty to keep you busy and easy to extend the layout to the left past the factory if you wanted to add some extra sidings to shunt.

Hope you dont mind but one question I have, is have you left enough room between the CT siding and the exit track to fit the CT building in? It does look quite tight. A possible alteration for you to consider is to bring the two points closer to the road in the middle of the board, that would let the tracks around CT spread further and give more room. You could even hide the exit track by running it underneath the upper level as it exits the layout.

March 20

So for quite a few years I've fancied building one of the former SR express emu's, I had planned to have a go at a 4COR but a few chance ebay purchases mean it will now be a 6PUL. I say 6PUL but it will actually be a reformed 6COR. I plan to represent unit 3042 which was one of the few to painted in rail blue, lasting in service till late in 1968.

This will be a first for me, I've built plastic kits before but never had a go at a proper cut and shut job like this.

I'll have a go at the motor cars first, the starting point for these is the Ian Kirk coach sides for the Maunsell open 3rd and brake 3rd coaches. These will be chopped up and rearanged to form the correct looking window layout, and a silver fox cab fitted in front. I'll use a Hornby 5bel chassis and bogies as these seem to be a close representation, although the chassis will need to be shortened.

A quick pic of the parts collected so far.

March 18

14 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Ah yes, that's actually part of the DOGA display. It's a really nice diorama display but every time I've seen it. the person on the stand hasn't been able to tell me much about it as 'someone else built it'. Here's a couple of images from the Longfield show:

That's the one! Thank you. It looked like some sort of shelf layout/diorama from the glimpse in the video, but I couldn't find any reference to it in the guide. An interesting bit of modeling either way.

March 18

5 hours ago, andyman7 said:

I think you may be referring to the MRC's 'York Road' which is a 2mm finescale representation of the tube that fits with the rest of Copenhagen Fields in the full setup

Thanks, but it wasn't York road. I've taken a screen shot of it, looks like a couple of layout modules possibly?

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