[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

33 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I think classes 411, 421 and 423 were all cheerfully serving Kent less than 25 years ago, and plenty of kids went to school on them. I am not aware that any had CDL fitted. 

I was commuting on slam door bouncy seat non-CDL 312's on the Southminster branch in the very late 1990's.

 

According to Wikipedia "The last slam-door stock was withdrawn by South Eastern Trains in December 2005" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam-door_train

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/southern_counties/4163768.stm

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

The fact you haven't done so and stuck it on this thread speaks volumes....

I do have a half decent prototype thread in the Swiss Railways section, which includes some comparisons with the UK. Seems to be appreciated by those interested in the contemporary Swiss scene.

 

 

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

15 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The implicit implication that because other countries don't seem that bothered about things which are prohibited in this country and that the ORR is somehow acting unreasonably / getting carried away / overreaching itself etc!

 

What other countries may or may not do has zero relevance to the actions of the ORR - whose actions are framed by British legislation and nobody elses!

 

Now you can of course argue the British legislation is too stringent - BUT if you do then you need to remember what / who put the legislation into law in the first place, members of the houses of Parliament.

 

Hence, as with many things railways if you don't like the ORRs actions then you need to actually start discussing UK Politics and Parliament - both of which shape the entire legal / regulatory environment ion which all railway entities - including WCR MUST be in full compliance with. 

 

 

 

Total figment of your imagination and very bizarre given at various times on this thread i have been accused of spreading hate against WCRC and being part of an anti-WCRC mob!

 

When you have calmed down read my post again. Nowhere have I criticised ORR or made any comment that remotely implicates that.

 

I am genuinely interested in comparisons and offered it simply on that basis, as the way the Swiss society does things is very interesting (to me at least) compared to the UK. If it's not of interest to you just ignore it

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

So this will be the last Swiss reference but there are a lot of similarities between the Jacobite and the Bernina Express and similar services. Both run premium trains on world famous railway lines in stunning scenery. Both attract tourists from across the globe and both bring valuable business to the areas. The key difference is that whilst the Bernina operates with new, high quality rolling stock and service, the Jacobite operates crappy old coaches whilst making large profits for its owners. Aside from the embarrassing and shameful conduct of WCRC over safety, it would be nice to think that the UK had enough decent, competent people who are able to organise a drinking session in a brewery to collectively create a similarly world class experience with fully refurbished and compliant Mark 1s for the full Harry Potter experience.

 

Just a thought.

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

4 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Last time I looked maters to do with U.K. railways are judged in U.K. courts and to U.K. laws!

 

When will people learn  it doesn’t matter how many pictures they post of what goes on overseas - they mean nothing when it comes to U.K. enforcement of U.K. laws.

 

No UK judge is going to turn round and go “Well the Swiss regulators and Swiss law says it OK so we will go along with that are they?

 

The ORR (and other regulatory bodies) make the decisions they do so that the organisations / people they regulate are in compliance with U.K. laws! NOT just because they have made up a set of standards off their own back.

 

IF you feel that UK regulations are excessive then rather than posting pictures of overseas practices and whinging you need to get busy lobbying MPs to change the relevant U.K. laws by bills in the Houses of Parliament! 
 

That will then alter the framework under which U.K. courts operate and in turn mean that the approach regulators take will be different.

Not sure what are you responding to? I don't think anyone suggested anything to do with what you have posted above. I certainly haven't suggested Swiss law should affect UK law.

 

I merely made the observation, in relation to discussions around the application of railway safety rules and discussion around mollycoddling etc here in that Switzerland we have CDL but you can stick your head and body out of the windows, despite clear hazards, whereas in the UK this is not allowed. Nothing more than a potentially pertinent observation and/or comparison of how different but similar systems operate. I'm not sure showing a photo of an asian train with people on the roof and hanging off the sides is relevant as their laws and society are very different to western Europe.

[Hornby Trading Statement Published 22 April]

1 minute ago, Gallows-Bait said:

 

I suppose the point I was trying to make was that there are no inherent barriers to Hornby doing what the other companies are doing and then having the advantage due to their scale, so Hornby's failure is not due to the other companies doing things that they can't.  Though I concede that it is perhaps harder for Hornby simply by virtue of customers having different expectations from them due to their market position.

 

I think you make a very valid point which is that Hornby perhaps have not responded to the changing trends in the market and have been slow to change their business practices accordingly.  They have relied on their long standing principles that "it'll sell in the end" to make large runs of small numbers of liveries, helping keep their costs down.  Perhaps their past experiences show that people will "make do" with certain liveries, but then buy new ones down the line when drip fed onto the market in later runs, resultiing in more sales.  In addition as a longstanding and big player in the market, customers may tend to expect Hornby to have a wider range of available products, which leaves Hornby in an even more difficult position when they are perhaps not making as many production runs as people think, instead meeting demand through past stock that they've been holding onto for longer.  I suspect if there were less limitations on scaling up manufacturing offshore then they could balance this better, but the demand for the limited number of slots in the production calendar hamper making such a shift.

 

This longer term approach to running tooling over multiple runs over several years also doesn't seem to be the approach other entrants are taking, instead favouring a big splash of a wide range of liveries in order to make bigger batches with the tooling and reduce cost that way.  It's resulted in an expectation from customers that they can get their preferred liveries and eras without having to wait for later runs potentially years down the line.  Similarly there are perhaps less expectations for newcomers to have a constant range on hand.  Consumers have knowingly (though perhaps not willingly) bought into a market model of "when it's gone, it's gone" through pre-ordering, which means no one expects a perennial range from those smaller manufacturers.  As such they can focus on individual products, sell the whole batch and move on without people asking when it'll be back in stock.

 

There's also another factor which I noticed in the various documentaries and TV shows, which is that Hornby feel an inherent obligation to introduce children to the hobby, so that in later years they come back to the hobby.  It's an obligation that newer companies don't have, meaning they're not also trying to balance their contemporary high detail ranges with ranges such as Playtrains, which appears to have struggled in the market.

I agree, and Hornby are still dominated by supplying and supporting retail, somethign that I'd argue some of the new entrants are taking advantage of. The feast and famine approach of some of the new entrants would make it impossible for retailers to remain in business if Hornby and Bachmann disappeared. They sell via pre-order, presumably the majority directly and a limited proportion to retailer, again much of the retail stock is pre-ordered. We know the problems that causes both the manufacturer and retailer processing the volumes, and whilst is brings in sales it does not bring in normal retail customers. If Hornby and Bachmann decided to replicate the arguably parasitic pre-order approach of some of the new entrants, many retailers would close. There would be no point maintaining the overheads of a shop if all you do is periodically pick and pack a large quantity of pre-orders. You can do that from a large garage behind your house.

 

So Hornby are a little caught, and as usual get a bashing over direct sales when their competition do it as well (without the bashing.....), and it is the competition who piggyback the full spectrum retail offer Hornby and Bachmann provide. But as others have pointed out above, retail is still the mainstay of Hornby's overall business and where there new sales drive is focused.

[Hornby Trading Statement Published 22 April]

Right now they need to be much better at selling stuff, all their stuff. And that is hard nose selling and deal making like the recent Michael's deal.

 

They have consistently made stuff they couldn't sell, but their penetration into retail was pretty weak IMHO and the online direct sales has not exactly been a spectacular success. They are too small to do it themselves efficiently but may be stuck with the legacy decisions on this for a while. With a huge debt pile and thus at cashflow risk from the interest payments, especially if interest rates rise or just don't fall, they need money through the door so Mr D's job is to flog everything and anything to anyone whilst making some money and expand the sales channels and volumes. Mr K spent too much time on product development, marketing and promotion, but neglected the core sales function IMHO as that is where his interest lies. No amount of discussions about fireboxes is going to change the fact the expanded sales team need to knocking on doors day in day out. Firebox or no firebox, a good sales person will get stuff sold. I worked in sales and was rubbish at it (!) but I've worked with people who can sell anything to anyone. Whilst Hornby could do a better job of selecting and developing products etc they still have to sell whatever they make and that is the key right now.

 

Whether Hornby look to depart from their current processes for manufacturing or sales to replicate the new entrants we shall see, the 500 or 1000 batch system may not be suitable any more. But I am also curious about the business models of some of the new entrants as I can see potential problems down the road for one or two of them as their business models are not foolproof.

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

10 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

 

That just isn't true and is misty eyed romaticism. If anything the reverse is true.

 

How many times in your childhood did you play unsupervised? How often do you see children playing unsupervised today?

 

It is weird, in a era of helicopter parents, media led scare stories about what will happen if you take your eyes off your child for 10 seconds, the tutting disapproval of mumsnet, and apparently a younger generation that is so molly-coddled as to be unable to do anything such as open a slamdoor, simultaneously parental responsibility is getting weaker.

Schrödinger's parent - both overly protective and wantonly irresponsible at the same time.

I think it somewhat unfair to criticise people for not being able to open a door that has a handle system outside the normal types of handles and buttons used on transport systems is 'mollycoddling'. The world of slam doors was a world of heavier and comparatively poor engineering for things that people interacted with. Modern design and materials, cost, safety etc means doors and other systems are entirely different.

 

Imagine being an alien arriving from Mars and wandering through normal society with automatic shop doors, button operated train doors etc. Then present them with a slam door with a brass handle on the outside that requires you to open and then lean out of the window, place a firm grip on the handle and twist it, using a lot of force to an inconsistent and unknown degree and that young children and elderly will struggle with, to open a door that opens outwards and has specifically been designed to assist you falling out of it having put your body weight against it and your centre of gravity the wrong side of the door. Or worse the small slider catches on the inside that often required two hands to push across. Slam doors were of their time but from any contemporary safety, ergonomic, operational perspective they are a ridiculous design that fails on every count. It is unfair to criticise people for not knowing how to operate things outside of their experience (back to the myth of common sense......🙄). And that is the'human factors' element that is so important in relation to safety and specifically CDL. 

 

The question was asked above about why it is relevant to CDL that people were trying to open doors incorrectly. The relevance is that the clear real world evidence of problems operating doors means at the human factors people don't know how to use the doors safely and effectively. Whilst the observed actions are operating things other than the correct handles, this does mean that other people at other times may misuse or incorrectly operate handles at other times not realising their error, leading to a "reasonably foreseeable" outcome that someone may operate a door handle whilst the train is moving because they don't realise the full implications of what they are doing. There is clear evidence of misuse or incorrect operation by passengers as well as fatalities, and without CDL someone opening a door on the move is within reasonable bounds of possibility and there is data to prove it. Accusing a victim of being 'mollycoddled' or whatever because they couldn't operate what is a badly designed piece of legacy quipment (by modern standards) is victim blaming and a de factor admission of guilt to safety offences. If someone states the that they think people are so mollycoddled they can't operate old doors then they have prior knowledge that something could go badly wrong and failed to act. Good luck with that in court!

 

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

11 hours ago, Legend said:

 

I suspect the Swiss take vegetation removal much more seriously than the UK.  Much tidier railway over there . 

Vegetation isn't much of an issue in the areas where the windows are fully opening, very tight tunnels and infrastructure clearances are however

 

 

Pop your head in for the tunnel, pop it out again afterwards and smack it on the bridge....tight curves and limited visibility for significant portions of the route.
 

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

3 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Several of them moaning about not being able to lean out of the doors for photos too. 

 

They should come to Switzerland, here you can open the entire coach window halfway down and fall out to your heart's content!

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

1 hour ago, rab said:

Is not part of the problem that the link between "parents" and "responsible" seems to be getting weaker as time goes on

That is a deliberate political choice but we rightly can't discuss that here.

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

The subject of foot crossings is an emotive one given various tragedies and multiple prosecutions of Network Rail. Id suggest a thread drift too far.

[Hornby Trading Statement Published 22 April]

7 minutes ago, fezza said:

 

A better 08 is done by Bachmann and the HST, 153 and 67 are crude by modern standards. The 91 is slightly better but fairly basic. All could easily be picked off by other manufacturers who wanted to produce a modern spec model, just as they have with the 31, 37, 47, 50 etc. 

I don't know of many people who think the Bachmann 08 is better. And the 67 is basic? Maybe you are only aware of the ex Lima Railroad version?

Anyone can and does duplicate models that Hornby have done before, but they still have an extensive range that sells. 

 

And Bachmann are seeing duplication of core models in the 37 and 47's despite spending over a million on brand new tooling, so it doesn't matter if models are dated or not, they will be duplicated. And 47's also have Heljan in the mix.

 

Hornby are quite happy selling through Railroad 37s and 47s without worrying about massive tooling costs and competition from launch. 31s are now Railroad too, so continue to profit from that aged tooling as Accura do a better one.

 

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

21 minutes ago, John Besley said:

 

Fitting CDL  is fine but how are the those who don't understand a Mk1 going to open the doors?

It doesn't. What those observations do tell anyone competent in safety is why CDL is likely to be beneficial.

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

Bit of serendipity I came across an article about how Einstein's theory of relativity was initially rejected by many. Apparently 100 scientists wrote a treatise rejecting his theories despite only about 10 of them were mathematicians or physicists who had the competence to even begin to work through the horrifically complex equations underpinning the theory. Apparently it was common sense that relativity was nonsense.

 

The comment I liked in the article was "common sense doesn't help with things outside our experience."

 

Nail. Head. How can you apply common sense if you have no experience or meaningful understanding of the matter concerned? Obviously you can't, that's common sense 🤣

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

For those who want an entirely independent view from those actually using the Jacobite I suggest googling the train and looking at the latest Google reviews. I don't know how to link directly to the reviews, and you will need to sort them by date as they post the highest ranked first.

 

Trigger Warning - not all of the latest reviews are 5 stars.

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

4 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Some apologies required from me then, coming shortly after one of my posts I thought you were accusing me of that.

Nope, not you!

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

22 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Just who is the troll with no basic understanding? Assuming bad faith and ignorance with people you disagree with is simply being rude.

It is self evident who the troll is. And bad faith is coming into a thread that has had extensive discussion on complex safety issues and saying that you should just apply common sense, a demonstrably nonsense concept and it is clear from their posts they have not bothered to understand the issues or even read any of the relevant documents. I have no problem disagreeing with people who have some idea what they are talking about or have at least bothered to try and understand the issues, but posting simpled-minded lazy nonsense is rude.

 

And frankly it is insensitive of this troll when a number of us on here have had to deal with the tragic consequences of those who decided safety was not their priority or could be ignored. Something they'd know if they'd bothered to read before posting. I've dealt with the scene at an entirely avoidable double fatality on the railway, it was not nice. Common sense failed that night. So I will call out those who make false accusations, smears or talk nonsense on matters of life and death because I know what happens with people start making decisions about things they don't understand. It is a shame that more people lack the courage to do so, as some of the tragedies that continue to happen might be avoided.

 

I am also assuming nothing, I am reacting to what is in front of me which is clear evidence of ignorance. If you think I am being rude then report me to the Mods, noting that one of them has already challenged this particular troll for their comments. Is it really rude to call out someone who states that they won't pay an extra £10 on a near £100 ticket to comply with the law (law and a  decision subject to full High Court scrutiny and confirmed as legal) to ensure the safety of everyone on a family orientated tourist attraction with a known risk of fatality? I'd question the moral standards of anyone who think safety is less important than a small addition to the cost of a non-essential leisure actuivity, however uncomfortable that makes so called 'liberals' feel (their classification, not mine). But of course for so called liberal types it all about their feelings rather than reality or other people or bothering to actually know what they are talking about or listen to experts, of which there are a number on here.

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

1 minute ago, Chris116 said:

I spent 20 years as a Travelling Ticket Inspector and 17 as a Guard on the Mid Hants Railway. During that time the number of people who could not open or close the doors on the carriages was amazing. On at least half my duties I met people who were pushing the rubber door stops in an attempt to open a door! On one occasion I was asked by a teacher, who was leading a school party, to close the windows and turn the air conditioning on as it was too hot. She was most upset with me when I explained that having the windows open was the only air conditioning that Mk 1 carriages have.

 

I have travelled widely on other preserved lines and witnessed the same behaviour at most of them. The public do not understand Mk 1 doors and unless the staff watch them carefully they can cause a dangerous situation at any time on a journey.

So real world experience, health & safety reports, legal requirements. comments by respected railway experts. No doubt the conspiracty theorists and common sensers will still think there is no need for it.

 

8 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

It’s a statistical fact that Humans are very bad at repetitive tasks and in terms of H&S measures there is an alarming trend for people not to do things….

 

Have you ever considered why cars now come with seatbelt sensor that make a racket if it detects you are driving along but they are not deployed for example or why electric lawnmowers come with the need to press 2 buttons (one with each hand) to get them started?

 

Both the above will be more expensive to build than products which didn’t have these features…..

 

Good H&S practice / regulation seeks to automate or build saferty into the device being used precisely to avoid human mistakes - and the railways are no different.

 

Yes stewards can be effective but they are human and y can forget / go off sick / be distracted where as an automated system cannot!

 

Also stewards have to be paid, accommodation be found for them etc where as an automated system after it’s initial fitment has relatively low ongoing costs.

 

Therefore assuming WCR still want to operate the Jacobite for the next 10 years then I bet the actual cost of CDL with regard to ticket prices will be less than paying for the army of stewards (including having enough spare people so that in cases of sickness the train still ins with the required numbe)

Feeding the troll won't change anything. They have no demonstrable understanding of the most basic elements of safety (as you have highlighted re: the critically important element of "Human factors") nor have bothered to actually read the thread, the comprehensive JR judgement or other relevant docs.

 

Applying 'common sense' to everything as its easier than thinking. After all common sense has worked so well with drink driving, Grenfell, guns in the US, quality control at Boeing etc.

 

 

[Hornby Trading Statement Published 22 April]

7 minutes ago, fezza said:

The core problem is that at the premium end of the market others do it better. The only active modern image Hornby locos I have are a 31 and a 50 - and these have now been superceded by better models from other manufacturers.

Yet Hornby have an extensive range of modern image locos including Class 67, 08, HST, 87, 153, 88DS, 48DS, 91, 4-VEP etc. No one does any of those except for the forthcoming Cav 60. Many of those are highly regarded, and Hornby are certainly getting money out of the tooling for them.

 

 

[Hornby Trading Statement Published 22 April]

15 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

We are regaining confidence. It grows every week.

An unscheduled visit from the Sales Director who spent a considerable amount of time listening to the difficulties we had to try and deal with. Straight talking as opposed to the masquerade we had been subjected to.

 

The abolition of the Tier System, how ridiculous was that? We wanted to spend and weren’t allowed to.

 

Sadly this came too late for one particular retailer. Hornby had rebuilt bridges and had made a confidence building approach. This is very much appreciated and hopefully will continue.

 

TT120 rolled out to any retailers who wanted to stock the product. 

Our Airfix orders and preorders are the highest they have been for many, many years.

 

On a personal note, the Sales Staff, Accounts, etc, all seem happier, that’s got to be good.

 

One thing hasn’t changed, their After Sales Service. It’s way, way above any other suppliers. Problem? Resolved with the minimum of contact. As a small retailer that’s always a big confidence booster.

 

 

Shaun D has been doing the rounds and Widnes MC is on his LinkedIn post.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/shaun-dubberley_hornby-customers-growthstrategy-activity-7171167478037921794-4L-5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

 

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

16 hours ago, woodenhead said:

You know we cannot talk of those people on this forum, they are always watching and will come down on the mods like a ton of bricks to remove any reference to them.

 

Our Masters and Overlords is the correct description.

All Hail Andy and Phil.....

[Hornby Trading Statement Published 22 April]

The debt thing is worrying but there is a lot going on. New heavyweight Sales Director with serious experience and connections in the world's biggest toy market and hardcore ecommerce experience. Can see that might make our Northern friends interested in a punt.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaun-dubberley/

 

And Airfix now in a US equivalent of Hobbycraft with over 1,200 stores

 

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/Hornby-hobbies-ltd_hornbyhobbies-airfix-modeling-activity-7188114001937997825-c2Li?

 

Looks like things are moving forward big time.

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

oh, hello.. am I in the crosshairs?

 

i’m not sticking up for them, i’m not going to defend them against safety, but that doesnt mean to say I have to agree with everyone on here…

 

i’m trying to taking a balanced view against a mob that is quite definitely against them, and trying to see why they are doing what they are doing.

As its 1 voice against an army, (I used to live near Millwall so you get used to it), its not surprising ive got more posts, but admittedly ive wandered OT for probably 50% of those posts.

 

I have learned quite a lot from some contributors in this thread, and certainly respect some viewpoints, even if I might spar with them.

 

Ive not been on a wcrc train in a decade, so I hardly care, though as this season maybe the final season the common man can get a decent priced ticket, I may give it one last hurrah. But the way I see it is mainline steam has been waning since 2012, before Wootton Bassett and were simply seeing those closer to the fire squirm as it gets hot, and its only time until the meteor hits carnforth.

 

I felt this on Pathfinders tour with the western last week too, they were quite paranoid about social media seeing something, and theyve nothing to do with wcrc.

 

oh look is that an unlocked cdl door, hanging off the platform end ?

 

At Tame Bridge Parkway it got even more dangerous as its only a 4 coach platform, and CDL is not SDO….on a 12 coach train… but fortunately there was stewards to protect them… but stewards arent recognised as being required for CDL once its in place… phew it was lucky that someone thought to be safer than that… disaster avoided… could have been really ugly…. But nah its not a wcrc operated train so no one cares.

 

it was nice an cool in the buffet car too… all those open windows, and droplights protected only by a latch but its ok because theirs a big green sign limiting liability/making compliance…

 

is it ok for Pathfinder to put a non compliant mk1 in the rake but not wcrc on the Jacobite ?

Maybe I see things differently, with a clearer head… because I can look at it from a commercial angle, rather than a subsidized unionised public sector money pit in all but name angle. I also see loads of hypocrisy in the thread.

Ive also got no axe to grind against any TOC… I dont really care.

 

I will say others are catching me up in posts as a combination of becoming a bit more disinterested, and summers coming attracting me to other things. My gut tells me the mainline is going to be a quieter place next year, and not just wcrc.

 

Anyway As you chose to bait me, I would like to say this post…., full of top shelf hit em hard language…

 

 

With this 1 line response to shut it all down, was for me the most entertaining, informative and symbolic one liner ive seem in this thread so far.

 

😀

 

A quite interesting solution, which if the case suggests a cdl power solution for mk1’s also ?

 

Calm down, you were the one suggesting there would be a 20 page pile in because it was WCRC, just pointing out the irony of the most prolific poster by some margin making that complaint.

 

And maybe you put yourself in the cross hairs continuing to making false allegations and smears against others. Now apparently it's a 'mob'.... surprised you haven't gone the full monte and blamed the Illuminati or lizard people for trying to take down WCRC. You are the one baiting, read your own posts including the one above. Don't dish it out if you're not big enough to take it

[WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.]

42 minutes ago, Reorte said:

That's because they are alas a fact of life. With so many people around even pretty low chance events happen to someone on a fairly regular basis, which is why they won't often be reported (although usually they do seem to crop up in local papers and their online equivalents).

 

We might bemoan that being a fact of life, and of course it's not at all good, but I fear a world where we've done a lot more to prevent these what are actually very low risks far more than I fear the risk. You can, of course, find exceptions. Usual disclaimer that in the more thread-specific situation I'm not supporting WCRC or agreeing with their approach.

I'm not 100% clear on what point you are trying to make but in the spirit of discussion I would say:

 

1) what is the evidence base of saying "they usually crop up in local papers.." - is that based on knowing about all the incidents locally and then seeing how many reported? I have been involved in plenty of incidents that did not get reported when I have searched for any info.
 

2) what do you mean by 'low risk' and how does that play into the wider risk assessment process, which is not just about risk? The intention with CDL is to deliver on a clear and thought out decision that people dying or being injured due to issues with slam door stock should be eliminated, and that the cost of doing so is regarded as appropriate and proportionate.
 

3) What safety authorities are sometimes trying to achieve, and CDL is a good example, is pointless deaths and serious injuries occuring to innocent people who are not or should not be in a hazardous environment. Being hit by a coach door or falling out of one on amoving train is a horrible, pointless, and avoidable way of dying. That is totally different from working in a high risk environment like PW on a live railway for example might result in death or injury, but that is not pointless, it is hazardous but if correctly RA'd etc it is necessary. I have worked in hazardous environments and understood that if things went wrong the outcome would be bad but accepted that. What I really didn't want to happen or accept was something dumb happening to me like some muppet opennng a train door and smacking me on the head resulting in life changing injuries. Why is preventing stupid deaths and injuries a bad thing, especially when it is entirely affordable by those paying for it?