Wenrash

Correction 2 ft 5 1/2. on the 2884 class. It is amazing how standardised the 2 cylinder locos were! Richard A

Found the GA. Dropdown 2ft 5 1/8in from chimney centre line to dropdown. Richard A

There is little in Nock's book. Nothing that relates to the dropdown. But he does give the front of the smokebox to the centre of the Chimney or cylinders as 3ft 97/8in. I was under the impression that the smoke box length increased with the fitting of the superheaters. The above dimension is for a superheated smokebox. My impression was that the 7ft 2in bogie was the modified Halls. All the outline drawings of the Saint Bogies show 7ft-0in centres. Looking at the F.J. Roche Drawing, the dropdown is 9.65mm from the chimney centre line in 4mm scale. Very close to to 2ft 5in. No guarantee for the accuracy of the Roche drawing. I expect the GA in GWJ would be more accurate. Richard A

Jim, I probably have not made myself clear. No doubt you are correct in what you say, but the model has the paint scheme as they had when they were new. The tenders then would all have been of the steep slope variety as at that time the A113 were the only Collet 4000 gal tenders in existence. Hence my rather loose rant. I have Bill Peto's book on the "King Class" and it lists the Swindon record of every tender number, and date, attached to a King. Looking at this shows that the A113 tenders disappeared off the Kings by mid 1930's, and only a few Kings ever again had them attached. 6019 is one that had one in the 1950's and again in June 1960. What they looked like then is anybody's guess. Which brings me to another point. I am reading that people believe the King Tenders had larger water feed pipes. Bill Peto's work shows this can NOT be correct. The sheer number of random tender numbers clearly shows that they used the next tender off the rank! There is just no rhyme or reason to the tender numbers. The tender shop could have change the pipework as required, but I doubt that. Just another "old wives tale" that has arisen. Richard Ashenden

Miss Prism, I am missing something here. Which Photograph of 2931 are you referring to? Richard Ashenden

Laurence Waters book on the Saint Class states that "the records show that 2931 ran with a standard Collett 4,000 tender, no 2417, between September 1946 and September 1947" I can not find any photographs of this in the book about this. A number of Collett 3,500 tenders, also the bogie tender, are in the photographs He states all this information came from the work of Bill Peto who actually went and looked at the Great Western records for the Great Western Society. He also says that 2920 St David was coupled to 4,000 gal tender no. 1509 built on lot A51, when the loco was withdrawn. However the photograph taken outside Swindon works is not of a Churchward 4,000 gal tender! Richard Ashenden

Sorry for the accuracy rant. Here is my current bitch. I have a Hornby "King" R3331 "King James I". This is a fairly recent model. I was astounded with the tender. Hornby have modeled the 4000gal tender with double fillers correctly as per the engineering GA drawing and photograph in "Russell". This makes it one of the first batch A113 20 off. Except the underframe they have provided has the 45 degree sloped frame, not the 12 degree frame of which the A113's had. So they complete tender is something that never happened. Why do Hornby still do this type of thing. A quick look at Bill Peto's book on the Kings also shows that the A113 tenders on stayed with the Kings for quite a short time. It would have been better to attach the Collet tender from the Castles. Jason I have found the references you list as being very helpful indeed. Richard A

How many on this list, comply accurately with the GWR drawings? Maybe some indication of this feature would help. Richard A

The body of the Hornby Hawksworth tender, attached to my model of Castle 5075, measures 32.42mm wide. This therefore means that it is an 8ft wide body. Richard A

So where does this pic fit in the discussion? We have proud weights, PIL, loco has superheated boiler, but countersunk rivets on the smoke box! Richard A

Thank you Nick for the RCH Sheet Support Drawing. I am delighted that my request has opened Miss P's Gold mine to all!! Richard A

Thankyou Miss P! I might have guessed you would have the answer. Richard

The engineering drawing in Atkins (1998) is unreadable. Does anybody have a clear drawing of this? I am particularly interested in the dimensions relating to the sheet bar and fittings. Next stage would be to get somebody to etch it. Richard A

Have a look at the John Lewis article in GWRJ No 17 1996, "The 70ft. 'South Wales' Coached of 1923-1926". Photographs and drawings included. A quote from the "Great Western Magazine" The ends of the coaches fitted with "Buckeye" automatic couplers are bow-shaped, but those with GWR gangways are square, with no turn-under". Photo of 4601 shows scissor on the flat end. E109 No 7601 has a "Pullman" gangway with automatic couplers and drop down buffers. Richard A

My understanding is that the 2500 gal tenders had wheel spacings of 6ft-6in whereas the 3000 gal tenders had wheel spacings oh 7ft-6in. Thereby making the 3000's 2ft longer. The across dimensions were the same. Ref Russell Vol 1 drawings. Richard A