Lecorbusier

Page 1569 --- Looking forward to further posts on this

Hi Andrew, I am afraid I have now bought another one ... the same type but this time a treadle including cast iron base and table ... all for the princely sum of £18.00 - another resto job this time with my daughter who will take ownership. BBC Scotland did this documentary on the factory ... complete with dedicated railway! https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00051z7/the-singer-story-made-in-clydebank This is a great archive showing how we used to make things in the old days .... raw materials in one end, completed product out the other. It reminded me of some of the LMS archives about the making of a Steam Loco.

I bought a hand driven one from 1911 of e-bay for a tenner .... stripped it down and refurbished it and am now using it to do the upholstery on my VW Camper ... excellent machine .... everything beautifully machined from steel and another couple of hundred years use left in it I would say. ...... before and after.....

That could be the epitaph for today's world .... high on appearance but with a heavy dose of inbuilt obsolescence. I was watching a documentary on the singer sowing machine ... and the early 20th century treadle and hand crank models are still being refurbished and shipped out for regular use in Africa and other developing countries. I know a fair few people in the UK who still swear by them. Progress eh!

I couldn't speak for you ... or indeed anyone else.... But I fully intend to scratch build a loco in the not too distant future, and I care not one jot whether it is available either in RTR or in a good quality kit. On the one hand I want to try my hand and see if I can do it .... and on the other, if successful I am pretty certain that the self satisfaction will likely be beyond anything I've experienced to date. I already know that from a simple pleasure standpoint I prefer scratch building my wagons to constructing a kit .... though I admit I use a whole gamut of etched/cast/turned bits and pieces so there is nothing hair shirt about all of this. Furthermore I want to have a go at designing my own etches and seeing what I can build from them - the excuse being the need for a tender currently not available for my Johnson 0-6-0 goods locos running circa 1902 on the peak line. The downside of course is that I may not complete my layout in this lifetime .... but if this proves to be the case I will certainly have thoroughly enjoyed not getting there.

I have seen a silhouette cutter used to good effect on this front. There is an excellent thread hereabouts

Interested to know if you think this outcome might change/be different at a 'scale' show as Tony describes them? - without barriers etc etc.

Penny drop moment My attendance tends to be at scale shows and their ilk. Much of the operation (within understandable parameters) I would describe as 'accurate' and everything tends to be pretty relaxed without barriers and much discussion going on. Often listening to the conversations is pretty interesting as well. I suspect this gives me a different reaction to layouts than I might have at a general show. The experience tends to be interactive rather than a simple spectator sport.

I can't comment either way ... I just thought the footage might be of interest. I suspect that the stock was cobbled together to test the track re-laying. Perhaps it was re-miss of me to post as I am sure it was never intended for purposes other than to advise friends and colleagues of progress (the comment on youtube under the video reads "A few of the moves that can now be made on my P4 layout of Ambergate and Buxton. Please excuse the clunky editing. Thanks to John S for the loan of the 3f."). My own paltry efforts on the Monsaldale project would crumble under such scrutiny.

Due to 'the day job' and family commitments I only rarely get to shows and have yet to act as an operator at any level. My viewpoint is therefore very much that of a semi educated punter. I find myself being interested in different layouts for different reasons. At this years Scaleforum for example I spent a fair amount of time watching Burntisland, Pulborough and London Road. This is not a judgement on the other layouts, it just reflected my mood and interests that day. What is more interesting perhaps is that I was drawn to each for different reasons. I was drawn to Burntisland for the scale and overall modelling. The period was attractive for me and the various cameos all along the layout of interest. The movement of trains was nice, but I enjoyed the stationary rakes of wagons and locos equally. The movement gave added interest, but strangely was not central to my enjoyment. (I remember being fascinated by Operation Overlord & the WW1 Trench Railway in a similar way) Pulborough on the other hand was for me all about the movement of the trains through the landscape coupled to movements around the station. The landscape was very well done as were the buildings, but it was getting down to train eye-level and seeing the various trains coming through and pottering about which captivated. London Road was all about the station ... and interestingly the lack of context beyond the battered retaining walls mattered to me not a jot. None of these reactions or my enjoyment had anything to do with them being P4 (notwithstanding a preference for the look of the track) .... but it was very much to do with the quality of both the subjects and the 'finescale modelling' . My conclusion ... I may have my own preferences, but normally if something is well done and thought has been given to the entertainment value from the viewers point of view, I find myself enjoying a fair old range of layout types. I hasten to add that I also like cameo layouts .... Arun Key amongst others immediately springs to mind .... and on occasion have thoroughly enjoyed post steam layouts. What one chooses to model and what one appreciates as a punter can be very different things.

Wasn't me ... I actually suggested pretty much what you have said

Unfortunately I have some way to go to claim that honour!!!! ... but now you mention it I do seem to be guilty plagiarism

The only caveat being ... that this would be the best or finest of layouts ? A layout which is nicely made and thoroughly entertaining (like a pot boiler film or book) but falls down perhaps elsewhere, I would suggest is still a success and well worth an exhibition slot? The problem with 'inform and educate' for me comes when this makes the work inaccessible at the base level. There are many fine and award winning works in theatre and film which are only successful on the highbrow/art circuit .... but that doesn't make them poor, but rather makes them specialist. I suggest it might be likewise with model railways in some instances. Interestingly, given some of the thoughts shared on Heckmondwike above, there is also an arrogance and holier than thou aspect to high brow theatre and film and (though I can't comment specifically regarding gauge wars and the such like) it is healthy for people to cry 'Emperor's Clothes' as and when necessary and stand up for their taste and outlook. My own discipline of architecture is similar, and from my standpoint it does no harm for the lay person to comment 'but it's ugly and doesn't work' to bring us crashing back to earth every once in a while. You can have all the complex and intellectual arguments and theories in the world but they tend to remain just that if the end product is simply dull or worse! (not that I am saying Heckmondwike is any of these things - I haven't seen it and from the pictures I suspect I would like it very much).

..... so really what I take from this is that - in exhibition circumstances - we really are talking more in terms of the theatre than anything else. A stage set maybe with a proscenium, definitely with lighting and a back drop, definitely with wings .... and the actors are the trains. In this analogy, the timetable becomes the script and as we all know a play script condenses real life and dramatises it for the benefit of the illusion being created. It seems to me a good approach, whatever ones taste in layout, scale or track gauge

Cripes It will be interesting to see how I get on working out my schedule for 1902 Monsaldale. Nothing like Little Bytham, but even so there is a fairly significant daily through put. I think initially there will have to be a fair amount of doubling up as far as locos and stock are concerned to get anywhere near. Luckily train lengths and speeds were much more sedate in my period

Thanks Tony. I wasn't really trying to start up discussions on whether P4 can work on large mainline layouts with trains running at speed .... I suppose if and until one does the jury will remain out (though I am watching the progress of Ouse Valley Viaduct & Balcombe Station with interest though whether this qualifies I don't know) I just wondered if the Heckmonwike would have been more entertaining had the schedules been compressed to give a reasonable amount of train movements. ie was it beautifully modelled but the reliability was suspect or was it simply a questionable timetable for popular public consumption. The layout does seem to have had a mixed reception. As far as choice of layout and subject matter are concerned I suppose it is each to their own. Thankfully I enjoy a fairly wide spectrum of layouts, though I do like a degree of detailed workings and shunting alongside a procession of through trains. I suspect that is because I am interested in more than just the kinetics of movement.

Not wanting to rake over old coals etc etc ... but sadly Heckmondwike was before my returning interest in railway modelling..... For me Heckmondwike conjures up images of cheap carpets https://heckmondwike-fb.co.uk/ Was the issue that the schedule was run 'overly proto-typically' and so was boring/tedious as an exhibition layout ? The implication being that a more viewer friendly approach to the scheduling would have produced a better overall experience .... or were there problems beyond the 'hair shirt' operating approach ! If it was displayed at the NRM it must have been a halfway decent diorama at least.

Oh well perhaps I saw it on a good day ... we will have to agree to disagree . Still hoping to see Albion yard in the flesh at some point .... loved it on the Right Track video.

You may well be right ... but when I saw it in show conditions it certainly felt that way to me as a viewer. Chairs were placed in front to control the viewing angle and distance, it was enshrouded with black out cloths and the only source of light within the 'stage' area was from the building and street lighting. I was mesmerised and watched for a good 15 mins ... and for me it felt like a dark wet evening.

One layout I have seen recently which plays interestingly with atmosphere as well as detail is Jim Smith Wright's Brettell Road ... it is modelled on a damp night - though it also looks good in the day.

Oh dear .... every time I hear yellow submarine I am reminded of Pass the parcel and musical chairs

And of course Vintage VW camper rally notice .... must be a solid chap!!