Ventnor
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Posts posted by Ventnor
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On 06/11/2019 at 02:01, Hattons Dave said:
Hi guys,
Project Genesis is now one month into production and we’re pleased to see so many people inspired by our new coaches.
Your feedback has aided the design of the coaches, from our initial designs that were shown on the launch day. We have iterated through 5 evolving designs to reach a stage where we are happy that we have addressed all of the feedback received and are confident the product will be the most realistic coach we can make.
These 2D drawings will now be turned into 3D CAD files that will show all of the details which we are putting into these coaches. This will take a couple of months but we will keep you informed as the project continues to develop.
One of the most requested features was the addition of Full Brake coaches to the range and we are very happy to reveal that these types of coaches are now available to pre-order, HERE.
Full Brakes were popular during the time these coaches ran, as many passengers carried copious amounts of luggage when they travelled. Also, some goods could be transported on passenger trains if they were needed in a hurry, for example - newspapers or milk, so most trains would have had a full brake. As the vehicles were replaced in passenger service, the full brakes got a new lease of life with the engineers of the railway companies as tool or storage vans. This helped a lot of them to survive far longer than the passenger coaches, with one even lasting in service until the 1980s!
Finally, one livery not included in the initial plan has been requested more than any, LB&SCR. This has also now been added and can be pre-ordered HERE, to run with the new Hornby Terrier or any of the other great LB&SCR locos available. These will be available as part of Batch 2.
For more information about the full range of Genesis coaches and to pre-order, click HERE
Cheers,
Dave
Hello Dave
Are you considering 4-wheel full brakes also?
Cheers
Andy.
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6 hours ago, jjb1970 said:
I just hope that the Terrier isn't a portent of things to come and a sign of Oxford Rail-isation of Hornby. Certainly its odd that the Terrier and models like the Lord Nelson originate from the same company. Oxford Rail have picked up a reputation for being nearly right and blowing it by seemingly not being bothered about going the final mile to get it right. I just hope we aren't seeing that attitude spill over to Hornby under shared management.
A return to a "Design Clever" style of approach to reduce costs, reduce R&D time and speed up production maybe?
Andy.
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Hello
I'd like to wade into this debate on detailing. I have already commented on A1X smokebox rivets but there is something else that has not (to my knowledge) been touched on. This is the arrangement of air brake pipes and vacuum brake pipes.
Very noticeable on the real thing, particularly the dual braked locos, is the arrangement of air brake pipes and vacuum pipes on the front and rear buffer beams. The dual fitted A1Xs tended to have the vacuum pipes on the right hand side of the front buffer beam (as you look head on) and the air brake pipe on the left hand side. The vacuum pipe being in a lower position than air brake pipe on the front buffer beam and the vacuum pipe higher than the air pipe on the rear. It is noticeable that the Hornby representation of these features show a vacuum pipe only on the left hand side of the front and rear buffer beams of both BR representations (to reduce costs no doubt). Rails model of 32661 also shows the vacuum pipe on the left hand side (head on) which is incorrect for this loco. Neither model show any representation of the pipework along / under the running plate that connect these pipes to either the vacuum ejector or the air pump. This is maybe due to the Rails model being a 1st EP(?) and the Hornby model to keep costs and price down.
However, and this is another detail minefield, 32670 (formally KESR Bodiam), is a vacuum only fitted loco and at some point (I guess when sold by the LBSCR) was vacuum fitted with a vacuum pipe on the left hand side of the buffer beam (as you look head on). 32655 (formally Stepney) which ended up as vacuum only fitted also appears to have this arrangement. It would also appear that post preservation, 32678 (formally Knowle), has had the brake pipe arrangement changed from that carried in SR / BR days. I'm sure that there are other variations of brake pipe arrangement and don't envy the manufacturers in getting every variation correct for their chosen prototypes. The fact remains (and this is my point) that there is a significant amount of pipework associated with the train brakes. This also makes the front and rear buffer beams look quite cluttered on the dual brake fitted locos.
Both the Hornby and Rails models have their merits and omissions but I do tend to be swayed towards purchasing Rails models. Even with the issues regarding cab spectacles and the chimney (which are to be addressed) I think it captures the essence or a Terrier better than the Hornby model. I wish them luck with their enterprise.
Regards
Andy.
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38 minutes ago, Ian J. said:
Who knew counting rivets could be such... 'fun'...?
I suppose better to be obsessed by rivets than nuts.........
I will stop there....
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5 hours ago, Ian J. said:
Looking at 32661 and the smokebox/saddle issue, I have just been looking at a number of photos of Terriers with rivets at the front outer wrapper of the smokebox, and the rivet line is nearer the front of the smokebox than those depicted on the model. It's possible that the saddle/smokebox size and positioning is very nearly correct, but the rivets on the model are set back from the front by a gap that is, funnily enough, about the width of the rivets.
Ian, I agree that the smokebox wrapper front rivets are set too far back from the front, the Hornby A1X seems to get this right. Interestingly, following your post above I did a cursory "Google" for Terrier photos. The result was that some locos had / have a full circle of rivets and some have them stopping at the smokebox saddle:
- Preserved "Bodiam" on the KESR - cannot see a full circle of rivets i.e. finish at the saddle
- Preserved W8 on the IOW Railway - cannot see a full circle of rivets i.e. finish at the saddle (unclear though)
- Preserved 32678 - has a full circle of rivets
More interestingly:
- Very clear colour and BW shots of 32636 (Fenchurch) in BR days - cannot see a full circle of rivets i.e. finish at the saddle. If this is the case then the Hornby model in incorrect. https://images.app.goo.gl/QN1SmkabyWTKfYhs6 https://images.app.goo.gl/5YPJJhipyamuki7L9 Click on the colour shot for a clearer version and a web page full of info, hopefully the links will work.
- Colour shot of 32650 at Hayling Island - has a full circle of rivets
Couldn't find any clear photos of 32661's smokebox (modelled by Rails).
I will have to check my books at home i.e. "Stroudley and his Terriers", "Island Terriers" and an Ian Allen published book whose title escapes me at present. I will admit, that until now, I'd always assumed that those locos that had rivets at the front of the smokebox wrapper had them in a complete circle i.e. beyond the saddle. Like I say, I'll check my books but this could be another detailing nightmare that manufacturers have had to deal with. How many detail variations do you tool for, where do you stop?
I am now obsessed by rivets as well as tank top recesses!!
Regards
Andy.
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Hello
You may also have found this out by now.
There was also the Nocton Estates Light Railway that was located in Lincolnshire. It was primarily for the cultivation of potatoes, latterly owned by "Smiths" I believe. It used ex-WD rollingstock and modified 20hp Simplex (Motor Rail) petrol locomotives, I'm not sure if they were re-engined with diesel engines though. Steam power was tried in the early days but their weight and size was not suitable for the lightly laid tracks and soft ground conditions.
Oakwood Press produced a book entitled "Lincolnshire Potato Railways" which was reprinted a number of years ago now but I think it's still available. Alternately "Google" Nocton Estates Light Railway.
A good railway as a basis for an agricultural narrow gauge line with little infrastructure required. Some of the Bachmann 009 rollingstock is produced in Nocton Estates livery.
There was also transhipment to standard gauge. Not sure if potatoes are cultivated in Somerset though, but with a little imagination they could be!!
Andy.
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I have had a quick look and offer this initial assessment of what Hornby has shown us. On the whole they look very good and the pre-Grouping choices seem to represent the chosen conditions well. I was expecting the RAILS/Dapol to be a show stopper, so a very interesting comparison is in the offing. I’m certainly going to keep the RAILS/Dapol ones on order, but will probably add a couple of the Hornby ones to the roster in due course.
655 Stepney
Note this is far from the persevered/Thomas the Tank condition, which is essentially that of an A1X in anachronistic Improved Engine Green. Hornby depict a pre-Grouping in-service model, in line with the welcome recent trend for doing so. Hornby, I think, first did this with the SE&CR H Class.
The condition depicted is typical of the appearance of the class from the 1890s to the application of the umber livery from 1905 in that it lacks the condensing pipes. In general these were removed when class members went into the works to have 14” cylinders fitted. In the Case of No.55, this was in 1894.
Here, though, we have the re-numbering to 655. This was part of the first series of re-numbering, taking place 1900-1902 and done to make numbers available for new Billinton B4 locomotives. B4 No.55 was completed in July 1901, so that might indicate when Stepney was re-numbered, and, indeed, Middlemass in his book states that Stepney was duplicate listed in June 1901.
The new numbers were applied in a number of ways. Probably the most professional-looking form was the use of gold transfers in place of the old brass plate. This was the case with Stepney.
I have seen three photographs of Stepney in this condition. None show the buffer mounted front outer lamp irons depicted on the model. The rear splasher intruding into the cab appears over large, but perhaps this is intended as a necessary design compromise, if, indeed, it is any more than an optical illusion. The guard irons look wrong to me; chunky and oddly cranked compared with the elegance of the originals. Other than these relatively minor issues, I am most happy to say that I have spotted any problems with the tooling.
I suggest the logical date for a repaint into umber was upon conversion for motor train working, which, in the case of 655, was in 1907. As such, it contrasts nicely with the RAILS/Dapol 1880s condition A1 with condensing pipes and iron brake shows.
The moronic Era system merely tells you that the loco ran in this condition at some point between 1875 and 1922. Big Help. This particular model appears suited to mid-1901 to 1907. Replace the transfer numerals with an etched plate and you can take the model back to 1894.
K&ESR No.5 Rolvenden
Hornby here bags the second KE&SR Terrier, RAILS/Dapol having announced Bodiam. Whereas Bodiam had retained condensing pipes, Rolvenden did not. Like the RAILS/Dapol model, this represents the earlier condition, so the two models should complement one another.
Again we have the buffer mounted front outer lamp irons which are not present judging from photographs of Rolvenden in this, and indeed in later condition. Again the odd and nasty guard irons.
Bunker rails were here but not the blanked ones Hornby have shown. Hornby seems to have tooled for one cab variant here, blanked coal rails and window bars; good for an A1X, but not correct for Rolvenden. A three-quarters view of Rolvenden in the condition depicted by Hornby, the rails are open and there are no window bars. These are not impossible features to correct.
No.751
Unlike the other two “Era 2” releases, this model goes head to head with RAILS/Dapol; the same loco in the same condition. It will be interesting to see them together, but there was only one SE&CR Terrier, so no-one is going to need to own both the RAILS/Dapol and the Hornby model, so this is a particularly aggressive choice for Hornby.
There are the same minor reservations as with the others. Again, the photograph of 751 in this condition shows the absence of the buffer mounted front lamp irons. The more I look at those guard irons the more they disturb me; they are totally wrong shape!
That aside, again we appear to have the appropriate physical condition for the depicted. I was particularly pleased to see that the vacuum exhaust pipe leading from the cab front along the boiler.
All in all, for RTR models it looks as if there will be a good degree of fidelity to the chosen prototypes and a willingness to tool for the key variants.
I agree with the assessment of the shape of the front guard irons, totally the wrong shape given the design drawings and photographic evidence as well as the surviving locomotives. Great looking models though and it's easy to be critical especially when there is little to be critical about. However, the locos are a minefield of detail differences, some of these are picked up on the Dapol model tread.
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I will still keep on voting for an NLR 1F tank as long as it's on the wishlist (78 votes)
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In the Bachmann Colas 70 thread, a member advised that a consignment for Bachmann arrived at Felixstowe, by container, last Friday. Andy Y conirmed this, so probably multiple lots of models that were expected, such as the Baldwins and possibly the Freightliner container flats, are included. Obviously these will need to get to Barwell into warehouse and QC checks, but may not be too long.
Thanks Alex and rembrow.
I have also contacted Hattons where I have a pre-order for both. They have replied saying they are expected in stock any day now.
Cheers
Andy.
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Has anyone heard of a likely release date for 590 and Peggy? June is stated on a number of retailers websites. Just wondered if there's been any wispers of a later Month this year. Money is saved and put aside!!
Cheers
Andy.
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Hattons for one will be charging the additional 10%. Announced by them yesterday. No doubt other retailers will follow. I doubt it will push buyers to make thier purchases in Australia locally as even with the additional 10% buying from the UK is still significantly cheaper.
The cynical me sees this as purely a money making exercise by the Government and not a scheme to increase domestic sales.
Andy.
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After 8 months of expectation, I am now the proud owner of a R3539 from Rails, still awaiting Hornby to produce an example without push-pull and an early BR crest.
I still have to finish my SEF kit, once painted I will see how they compare.
What DCC chips are people fitting, anybody tried a 8-pin direct plug?
Edit:Just had a look at the BR Database and it appears from their listings that 31518 was never fitted with Auto-gear, anybody got any other information sources to corroborate this?
Hello
There is plenty of photographic and video evidence around to confirm that 31518 was push-pull fitted, it was one of the last of the class to be withdrawn after working push-pull services in the Three Bridges, Tunbridge Wells West and East Grinstead areas. I would suggest that it is either a mistake or omission on the BR Database website. It always pays to check/corroborate information on the web with other published sources and photographs!!
Cheers
Andy.
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Maude isn't the only NBR tender locomotive still in existence......
Jason
My money is on a J36 as photos on the web show Maude inside a white, corrugated steel structure (at the Boness Railway I think) and the Hornby photo shows the same in the backgroud. A Glen would be nice too though.
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Upgrade/re-tool of the Terrier or E2 maybe rather than a new loco type? Then there's plenty of LBSCR rollingstock that has never been produced. Hornby have also produced an LBSCR brakevan that appears sporadically in the Railroad range.
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Finally seen the latest downloadable edition of The Collector and seen for myself the "teaser" photos of the measuring up of prototypes for the 2019 range. After looking at the photo of the tender coal rails I initially thought that it could be something North Eastern like a J27 or J21 but the lamp bracket is in the wrong place for an NE tender. However; the lamp bracket is not in the wrong place for a North British tender and has the right number of coal rails. Could J36 "Maude" be a new Hornby model for 2019?
Mmmmmm.............
All will be revealed at Warley??
Andy.
Finally seen the latest downloadable edition of The Collector and seen for myself the "teaser" photos of the measuring up of prototypes for the 2019 range. After looking at the photo of the tender coal rails I initially thought that it could be something North Eastern like a J27 or J21 but the lamp bracket is in the wrong place for an NE tender. However; the lamp bracket is not in the wrong place for a North British tender and has the right number of coal rails. Could J36 "Maude" be a new Hornby model for 2019?
Mmmmmm.............
All will be revealed at Warley??
Andy.
Further to my previous post. Attached is a photo of the rear of "Maude's" tender. Coal rails and lamp iron match those in "The Collector" photo. The tender water tank filler lid lifting handle also matches one of the other Hornby "teaser" photos.
Andy.
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Could you snap a picture for us to see the clues?
Finally seen the latest downloadable edition of The Collector and seen for myself the "teaser" photos of the measuring up of prototypes for the 2019 range. After looking at the photo of the tender coal rails I initially thought that it could be something North Eastern like a J27 or J21 but the lamp bracket is in the wrong place for an NE tender. However; the lamp bracket is not in the wrong place for a North British tender and has the right number of coal rails. Could J36 "Maude" be a new Hornby model for 2019?
Mmmmmm.............
All will be revealed at Warley??
Andy.
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Would be nice but didn’t the pipe have GWR on it
All the best,
Keith
Yes, it did have GWR on the pipe. However; preservation society's recycle parts were possible. I doubt "Fonmon" was ever vacuum fitted when in industrial service at Aberthaw cement works in its early days, this would most likely have occurred post preservation to work passenger trains. All speculation by me of course!!
Regards
Andy.
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Could you snap a picture for us to see the clues?
I found the attached photo online. Rivet work, handrails, lining and "bagless" vacuum pipe look consistent with the Hornby images. Didn't Hornby say that one of their future models was related to a previous release (or words to that effect)? So, baby Peckett could be getting a big brother?
Loco is 1924 built Peckett 1636 0-6-0ST "Fonmon".
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A few “engine sheds” ago Hornby referred to a “Big H”, but the latest collectors club refers to a “Big surprise”.
I think it’s been sussed that a Lord Nelson is one, but is an LN a “Big H” ?.
I’m thinking the SECR 01.. do Bluebell types refer to this as a big H ?..it’s certainly bigger than a H, and has a H boiler..there is a hint that an O1 is on the cards out there.
Could be both.. a 4-Big and an O1 :-)
The Engine Shed actually stated on 28/07/17 the following:
"But, you never know, in the meantime we might have some other HUGE H Class related surprises left, you’ll just have to watch this space…" So not BIG but HUGE. Why were all of the letters capitalised I wonder? A "U" Class has finished high and above a Lord Nelson in the last couple of wishlist polls. How is a U Class related to an H Class? The Bluebell Railway has two of them, 1618 and 1638 so were they measured at the same time? They have different tenders so adds to variations that could be produced. Or, it could be any SR loco with an H, U, G or E classification!! All will be revealed very soon no doubt.............
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1263 was involved in an accident at Cannon Street in 1944 and I suspect it got the flared bunker after that. It, however, lacked the bead at the base of the flare - that was added by the Bluebell.
Chris Knowles-Thomas
Mystery solved!! Sounds very much like that was the re-bunkering date/reason. Never noticed the lack of beading, thanks for sharing this information.
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Not to my knowledge. Definitely flared in these photos.
. http://www.semgonline.com/steam/hclass_04.html
http://www.semgonline.com/steam/hclass_02.html
Jason
Not to my knowledge. Definitely flared in these photos.
. http://www.semgonline.com/steam/hclass_04.html
http://www.semgonline.com/steam/hclass_02.html
Jason
The above website is somewhere I just did a quick check and is very useful for brief/concise SR loco histories and technical specifications. There are plenty of photos in printed reference material and achieve film on DVD that show 263 with a flared bunker in BR days. I have a photo from the mid 1950s that shows 263 had a flared bunker back then and with the early BR lion and wheel emblem and no push-pull fittings (so no Westinghouse pump). I believe that 263 was fitted with this equipment in 1960 so quite late in life as the loco was withdrawn in January 1964. I don't have any photos of the loco in SR or SECR days to check what period the bunker was changed. Saying that I haven't really searched yet!! Preserved locos can be a minefield for researchers as a lot of them received modifications either during their pre-preservation working lives or during preservation that do not then represent the loco in it's as built form. So, 263 in SECR livery is wrong!! I still think it looks fantastic even though I am a BR(s) steam era modeller.
As for Westinghouse brake fitted locos? I believe that 13 H class locos were fitted from new and so were dual fitted (air and vacuum) to work ex-LCDR air brake fitted stock. This has been mentioned in a previous post. A number of C class locos were also similarly fitted and I believe these remained so until late into their lives or until withdrawal. I have not seen any photographic evidence that H class locos carried Westinghouse air brake equipment into BR days, only air pumps associated with push-pull working.
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Unless I've missed it elsewhere in other threads, Model Rail Offers has announced two more versions to pre-order. A re-run of 30064 and s73 in BRITISH RAILWAYS black.
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Stunning!! Glad I've got one on pre-order as they'll sell out pretty quick. In fact I have all 3 locos and the train pack on pre-order, my No.1 Southern loco. Nice to see they've acknowledged the chimney is the wrong shape on this sample and it will be changed.
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You don't need to wait and hope for Bachmann, Parkside Dundas offer a kit for the Ashover coach which is easy to build. MPM1
http://www.parksidedundas.co.uk/acatalog/Rolling_Stock_Kits__Plastic_.html
To be honest as I doubt there will be a rtr version anytime soon as it's such a distinctive coach.
Thanks for the link. I did actually have a couple of half built kits in my early teens..........but then started going out with girls, so they never got finished!! I just about have some spare time for layout construction on and off as with 3 kids under 7 it's almost impossible to build rollingstock or locos so I focus on RTR (when the kids are older hopefully things will change). Nice to see they're still being produced given that there was only 4 of the real thing and quite distinctively ALR.
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'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement
in Hattons
Posted
Thanks Dave and good luck with the project.
Andy.